Political Discussion

[Project LC]

The hitler comparison does have truth to it and the complete overreaction seems typical of the media to anything the leave campaign says. 

The issue with banning the sale of high powered goods means even more redtape. There is so much regulation it is hindering development and the economy. For example there are 31 regulations for a toothbrush alone. 170 for a mirror. To develop a new product and sell it you have to know all these regulations which small business don't. Dont get me wrong some are needed but you could do the same with half the ammount. 

[Benin]

Small businesses don't know what regulations they have to adhere to?

Yeah, ok then...

[Project LC]

A question which I have been thinking about which I know the answer to but wondered if anyone else knew is how does the EU get a new law.

How does it work?

[Ian-S]

1 hour ago, Project LC said:

A question which I have been thinking about which I know the answer to but wondered if anyone else knew is how does the EU get a new law.

How does it work?

I think it goes to the Council who ratify it (same Council that will authorise or deny our request to withdraw should we vote that way) then member states have to implement it, there is little choice involved, some Countries (like us) have vetos but most don't.

[Project LC]

1 minute ago, Ian-S said:

I think it goes to the Council who ratify it (same Council that will authorise or deny our request to withdraw should we vote that way) then member states have to implement it, there is little choice involved, some Countries (like us) have vetos but most don't.

A law is come up with by EU officials (not elected) who then give it to the EU parliament who vote on the matter. Then the law is given to the council (not elected) who then decide on the matter. If in agreement the law is passed, in disagreement the council can either completely ignore the parliaments decision or change the legislation and send it back to parliament once the European officials have approved it again.

The parliament can not suggest new laws nor can it get old laws removed. All it can do is approve or deny legislation from the officials who create these laws in secret (legally must be behind closed doors) and even then the council can ignore parliament anyway. The 72 times the UK has voted against EU legislation it has won 0 times. 1 in 5 EU workers gets paid more than the UK's prime ministers salary and on top of that I am 99% sure that without looking it up no one can name me more than 3 EU officials. 

 

[Ian-S]

Well at least I was partly right, I knew it was FUBAR but that's a special kind of FUBAR.

[Project LC]

I seriously struggle to see why people would vote to be part of a system like that. 

[Benin]

I seriously struggle to see why people vote BNP, yet, they do...

Unfortunately it seems that both campaigns cannot be bothered to focus on the positives of each (guess what, both sides have positives for them), which is why no one really can provide an accurate vote that would actually benefit the UK...

[Project LC]

Well the brain does tend to focus on the negative.

[Tom]

^ Source?

The issue is we're not voting to take part in that system, we're just voting to stay

The EU system is as un-democratic as our own, and the real shame is that we're not being asked what we would like to change/what needs to change

[Mark9]

On 15 May 2016 at 4:54 AM, Project LC said:

The hitler comparison does have truth to it and the complete overreaction seems typical of the media to anything the leave campaign says. 

The issue with banning the sale of high powered goods means even more redtape. There is so much regulation it is hindering development and the economy. For example there are 31 regulations for a toothbrush alone. 170 for a mirror. To develop a new product and sell it you have to know all these regulations which small business don't. Dont get me wrong some are needed but you could do the same with half the ammount. 

The Hitler thing is just pandering to people's irrational fears. And it's pathetic. Nothing to do with it being true or factual.

[Project LC]

The European official's with the council's backing can enforce what ever they like and completely ignore the European parliament. The UK has voted against the council 72 times and has lost on 72 occasions. We are pretty much powerless to stop new ridiculous laws being introduce. The only way we can stop stuff is using our veto of which it seems Cameron has actually given some of our veto powers away.

The eu has quotas on how much we can import from country's outside the eu. Pushing prices up as cheap steel cant be imported to make cheaper goods. Same with food and other goods. So we are locked in the trade area of inefficient production unable to be competitive on the global market because of being in the eu so we must trade with the eu as everyone has the same high price problem. Leaving will cause an economic shock but we will recover and able to trade globally instead (Switzerland is a good example of this). So the economy will end up performing better and we will have control over our government. A government we can change every 5 years unlike the EU where you have pretty much no influence at all.

[Ian-S]

5 hours ago, Mark9 said:

The Hitler thing is just pandering to people's irrational fears. And it's pathetic. Nothing to do with it being true or factual.

No more pandering or different to the "IN" camp claiming Brexit will trigger off World War III.

Putting on my best punch voice "they started it".

[pognoi]

I haven't seen or heard anywhere that leaving the EU would cause WW III

[Ryan]

11 minutes ago, wegloo said:

I haven't seen or heard anywhere that leaving the EU would cause WW III

Do you get wifi in your igloo?

[Ian-S]

25 minutes ago, wegloo said:

I haven't seen or heard anywhere that leaving the EU would cause WW III

http://bfy.tw/5oAB

[pognoi]

*crawls back into hole*

[Project LC]

Oh Cameron also claimed that the leader of ISIS may be happy with Brexit. Far more ludicrous scaremongering from the remain campaign than the leave.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36310540

[Ian-S]

That, and some of the other stuff I've heard, such as:

Leaving will:

Make our borders less secure - even though we'll actually be able to police them ourselves and decide who we let in, instead of having it dictated to us by the EU.

Make travelling to the EU more difficult for UK residents - I'm not sure in what way since you already have to show your passport to enter and exit the UK and go through security checks, perhaps they mean we'll have to go through strip searches?

Make it harder to export or import goods - this is taking advantage of most people's lack of knowledge of how export/import is done, tottle off down to the post office and try to send packages to France and Australia, that little yellow/green slip you fill in for Australia is the only difference, it's called a customs deceleration.

I won't go in to detail about imports other than to say only person who's life will be different is the company accountant who will have to fill in the VAT return differently, things may be a little more expensive than before but not by much and may infact be cheaper in the long run.

Oh and of course leaving EU will destabilize it so much the World may decend into WW3. 

[Mark9]

On 17 May 2016 at 9:46 AM, Ian-S said:

No more pandering or different to the "IN" camp claiming Brexit will trigger off World War III.

Putting on my best punch voice "they started it".

I agree but then no one on here in any case has said that Cameron's claims of world war 3 were near the truth. For instance, in my very own post, derided what Cameron said about all out war if the uk left the EU. It's interesting that in any case, you and LC jumped at me on the Boris Johnson/Hitler thing, and not Cameron's ridiculous comments.

Besides,It's more the idea that using Hitler in what is suppose to be a grown up informed decision, is somehow validated by using the rise of the nazis.

[Ian-S]

1 hour ago, Mark9 said:

It's interesting that in any case, you and LC jumped at me on the Boris Johnson/Hitler thing, and not Cameron's ridiculous comments.

Do what?  You bought up the Hitler comments by saying they were pandering to irrational fears, all I said in response to that is that it was no different to Dave's claims of leaving the EU triggering WWIII, not quiet sure how that equates to jumping on you about Hitler and ignoring Dave....

[pluk]

I'm voting out, for various reasons based mostly on my own experiences, and a good number of these relate to the results of free movement of people among member states. I imagine to some here that will make me some sort of massive racist, but I think not to be able to see the issues this is causing you'd have to be pretty willfully blind to the world outside your window. The current system is madness and we'd be well shot of it. Our courts should be the highest in our land, our borders should be ours to control. There is absolutely nothing to stop continued trade and links with the rest of Europe and the rest of the world without being part of the union, as other countries have shown. 

I'm not saying it is all rosy leaving, there are clearly some benefits to membership, but they are vastly outweighed by the negatives for me. The European Union as a concept could be a good thing, it could be used to make trade and movement easier without damaging the sovereignty of those involved, but it is currently trying to effectively be a 'country of Europe' and is far far too powerful. 

I'm old enough to remember how those politicians (not so much the public as mass communication such as this didn't exist then) were vilified for daring to challenge the plan to join the Euro in the same way that people wanting out of this mess are now. It didn't work then either, and thankfully we kept the pound, I'm just hoping we get the right result this time too.

[Tom]

I think because in my lifetime there has always been free movement of people, I've just accepted that it's how it is.  Growing up in the world's most diverse city has exposed me to many cultures and raised my tolerance I suppose.

Perhaps it's idealistic, and I'm not fully clued up about the politics or economics of the EU, but a human life is a human life, and giving as many people as possible the chance to live a fuller life isn't a bad thing.  My parents are split regarding Brexit, but having lived through a time when Europe was at war with itself, see that it doesn't make sense for more segregation.