Fred Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I imagine that it's due to park attendance, to how much they can and will spend.Thorpes fireworks in 08 had attendances as low as 8k.. From peoples views on queue times this year, I cant imagine it being tooo much busier this time round either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I imagine that it's due to park attendance, to how much they can and will spend.Thorpes fireworks in 08 had attendances as low as 8k.. From peoples views on queue times this year, I cant imagine it being tooo much busier this time round either.PA attracts an audience of 10k to it's fireworks, that are on every night, for 2 months.... Gate figure wise, PA's average attendance is around 4200. It's prices for food and gifts are similar to Merlins', it's admission rates are similar to Merlins', and it's fastrack is substantially cheaper, yet the park invest SO much more in shows, themeing and overall experience. It's nothing to do with gate figures, it's Merlin's lining it's shareholders pockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 In the summer when I was at PA, queue times were over 2 and a half hours for Furius Baco, and over an hour for Tutuki splash... That felt like more than 10K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Mate, as much as you seemingly love PA and hate merlin... I can ASSURE you that PA does not get an average of 4200 in its park.Towers average over the entire season is 11k. Based on 2,750,000 visiting over the 240 days of the season.In 2010, PA had 3,050,000 guests. Over 365, that would make 8300 a day. And pretty certain they're not open 365?Edit: Fun fact. Based on Kevins statement that chessie got 1,450,000 this year, thats an average of 3983 guests per day (closed for christmas day). Hmm, doesn't quite stack up about PA, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Mate, as much as you seemingly love PA and hate merlin... I can ASSURE you that PA does not get an average of 4200 in its park.Towers average over the entire season is 11k. Based on 2,750,000 visiting over the 240 days of the season.In 2010, PA had 3,050,000 guests. Over 365, that would make 8300 a day. And pretty certain they're not open 365?Edit: Fun fact. Based on Kevins statement that chessie got 1,450,000 this year, thats an average of 3983 guests per day (closed for christmas day). Hmm, doesn't quite stack up about PA, sorry!If you read my post in the other forum the calculation is explained; it's a 15 year average based on PA's overall season (which includes Christmas). I've calculated it like this because investment in show quality, themeing and overall experience (everything bar rides) has been very consistent, and even in terms of new rides, very little has been added (Baco and sesame street, basically). It just shows how little the UK will invest, when the likes of PortAventura's Fiestaventura have been around since 1999 (12 of those 15 years). The average audience for Fiestaventura is 10k (it will undoubtably peak at much higher than this during the day).Oh and just to mention, PA isn't the only example, Disney do a fantastic fireworks display, as do many other European/American parks on a daily basis. I'm just using PA as an example because their fireworks display just shows up how poor the UK efforts are, despite (especially in the case of Alton Towers) attracting comparative audiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 How's it show that the UK invest less? Surely the amount of rides put in at the parks which have similar attendances equal the amount of investment put into entertainment. As mentioned in the other topic, different markets.Why are we mentioning PA fireworks display, when you are only comparing it to Towers due to comparative audiences? Why are we in this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 How's it show that the UK invest less? Surely the amount of rides put in at the parks which have similar attendances equal the amount of investment put into entertainment. As mentioned in the other topic, different markets.Why are we mentioning PA fireworks display, when you are only comparing it to Towers due to comparative audiences? Why are we in this thread?Your right, we have digressed from the point. The point is, as stated in the first place, for a similar sized audience, the UK put together a much more generic and average firework experience than that delivered by international competitors, once again letting the UK down on an international level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 PA attracts an audience of 10k to it's fireworks, that are on every night, for 2 months.... Gate figure wise, PA's average attendance is around 4200. It's prices for food and gifts are similar to Merlins', it's admission rates are similar to Merlins', and it's fastrack is substantially cheaper, yet the park invest SO much more in shows, themeing and overall experience. It's nothing to do with gate figures, it's Merlin's lining it's shareholders pockets.You know, for the most part I would agree when comparing with parks like PA. But actually, PA is horribly overrated.They do not invest incredibly in rides for starters. Their area theming is superb, I would agree there - and FiestAventura is probably the 2nd best park show I have seen in Europe (behind Mysteria 2009 at Europa-Park) - but the park food at PA is expensive (around €11 / £9.50) for a basic fast food meal, which wasn't very good really - and the gate price is €44 which is £38. Barely different from Alton/Thorpe, and the online rate appears the same when here you save a fair bit.Throughputs at PA are often very poor - especially on F. Baco. Equally, their last major ride was indeed F. Baco - since then they have added Sesame Street Land and that's about it. Shows are far superior. The park is also covered in graffiti (see Stampida, Tutuki Splash as examples) and ride theming in some places is very poor (see D. Khan).It's definitely not PA we should be looking to. It's Phantasialand, Europa-Park and many of our German parks that really set the bar.Thorpe Park's fireworks event looked decent, suited to Thorpe Park. I wasn't there, and from videos it doesn't look near the quality of Alton Towers (or indeed, the duration - Altons show was 23 minutes with a 15 minute pre show beforehand) - but it's still a decent event for the target market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 ^ I've touched on this in the other topic, it's really what you perceive as value for money I suppose. In terms of the fireworks, my main moan is that they don't achieve their full potential in achieving a really emotive display, like some of the international counterparts do. I just think we so often miss the opportunity to blow people away with truly amazing experiences, in favour of the cheaper and often publicity driven alternatives. It's a trend that seems to occur throughout Merlins'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I imagine that it's due to park attendance, to how much they can and will spend.Thorpes fireworks in 08 had attendances as low as 8k.. From peoples views on queue times this year, I cant imagine it being tooo much busier this time round either.I've heard that during firework events, Thorpe limit the attendance figures to 8k max for H&S reasons. Could be completely false, but it did seem that way this year.Thought I'd just throw that out there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 I've heard that during firework events, Thorpe limit the attendance figures to 8k max for H&S reasons. Could be completely false, but it did seem that way this year.Thought I'd just throw that out there..Was certainly the case this year, they dont really have the space to cater for any more people to be in the viewing areas for the display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Oh, well thats awkward..Pretty good that they manage to get a fireworks display then, considering 8k is a tiny amount of guests really. But this does mean that the event cannot really expand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam J Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 if any one is interested these are full shows from Sunday the 6th enjoy Ryan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 ^ I've touched on this in the other topic, it's really what you perceive as value for money I suppose. In terms of the fireworks, my main moan is that they don't achieve their full potential in achieving a really emotive display, like some of the international counterparts do. I just think we so often miss the opportunity to blow people away with truly amazing experiences, in favour of the cheaper and often publicity driven alternatives. It's a trend that seems to occur throughout Merlins'.I think the thing is, if you watch any of the Disney firework displays, they are shows with a clear message or story running right through it. Whether it's 'Illuminations' and the story of our civilisations or 'Wishes' where if you wish upon a star your dream will come true. It comes with the family territory, they want you to have the best time of your life and the fireworks reflect the emotiveness of the occasion.Thorpe fireworks aren't designed to do that. They want you to have a bangin' time with WKD tracks and fun. I personally don't have a problem with that, the majority of members on TPM who went to the fireworks spoke very highly of the display the park put on and the same with Alton's firework display. Ultimately, parks like Disney will survive regardless because it's the strongest theme park brand in existance. Merlin has to consistently publicise its brand through gimmicks and cheap tricks and Swarm publicity to keep people interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.m.k Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 I have always been totally underwhelmed by the firework displays put on by Thorpe and even Alton really. In every interview with Nick Varney, he always states how Merlin are aiming to be "Number 1" in the industry and how they can "put on a better show" than any other entertainments company; well, if I were sitting on the Disney board, I'd be kicking my feet up and smiling. I'm honestly not a Merlin basher just for the sake of it, I love what the company do, but if they actually do want to succeed then they really do have to start putting in real effort into everything they do, especially events such as these. As enthusiasts, we know all too well when budgets are cut, theming is left out etc etc; but events such as Fright Nights, Scarefest and Fireworks displays should be when customers hearts are being won, not the trailing queues in guest services to complain that I've seen during both events. It's a shame, but it's the truth that Merlin see's the way forward as cutting costs in the worst possible aspects of business, the ones which affect guest satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 If Thorpe are really limiting attendance to 8,000 for fireworks, why do they even bother putting it on?Alton had a combined attendance of 54,000 over 3 days. Thorpe, surely they'd probably get a fair few thousand on a normal day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorpeparkjack Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 What is the capacity for Alton? I thought it was about 35/40 thousand? 54k isn't too bad I suppose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Alton is just around 32,000. Although over 30,000 they start finding it hard to operate the car parks effectively.Friday at AT was 10,000Saturday at AT was 27,000Sunday at AT was 17,000:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 If Thorpe are really limiting attendance to 8,000 for fireworks, why do they even bother putting it on?Alton had a combined attendance of 54,000 over 3 days. Thorpe, surely they'd probably get a fair few thousand on a normal day!AFAIK they were still over budget for both days so I guess it was seen as a success.Its a shame theres no where in the park they could hold a display and it be watched by the number the park can holdOut of interest, was altons event 3 days then? I only saw it advertised for the weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam P Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 ^ Yeah Altons was the three days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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