pluk

Son of Beast is no more. If this video doesn't make you cry you have no heart... http://telly.com/9MYB0 Sob

Still paid for I should imagine? Would be understandable with the cost of running it. Considering the half term target market I wonder if they'll do a couple of intensity levels at different times of day, so the older kiddies can have a go before it is ramped up for the adults?

Thanks for that, I've never seen all that info before. Looks to me a great shame they made those 'improvements' to the ride, hate it when money is spent making things worse when there are so many things it could be spent on instead. The original style is beautiful and pretty much what I had in mind before going. Also unfortunate the original plans couldn't be afforded but they do look ridiculously ambitious so it is understandable. I'd forgotten all about Nautilus until I saw it in that picture, which is probably for the best. I didn't really get the point of it.

Should really consider wrapping this thing up! So that is pretty much everything ride wise, then there are the parades. The 20th Anniversary Train is just that, a single train along the parade route to a great catchy song. Doesn't really draw the crowds so it's easy to get up close and is a fun little diversion. 7/10 Disney Magic On Parade is the main procession, and even on a quiet day pulls in such huge crowds you'd need to be in place early to get anywhere near the front. It is quite long and pretty spectacular with some really beautiful floats. Not too sure what paedo bear is doing up there though? 8/10 As night time falls the park becomes beautifully lit and even more magical than during the day, just a shame that the 21.00 ride close time only allowed for about 45 minutes of dusky dark ride opportunity, which is pretty much all best spent on Thunder Mountain. Most people stop riding at about 20.00 to get in place for the nigh time show but that really isn't necessary when the park is not too busy. And then Disney Dreams happens. We loved it, so warmingly traditional Disney but done with such technologically clever and effective laser mapping on the castle. Here the characters projected on to water fountains have conversations with one in French and the other in English so everyone can follow what is going on and the language barrier suddenly becomes charming rather than a burden. The castle looks indescribably stunning, I have no idea how they do it as it changes colour and shape before your eyes, and they even fairly successfully manage to make it look like it disappears, but the technology doesn't get in the way of a good bit of story telling. Pro tip - for the best show it doesn't really matter how close you are, but being central is key to getting the most from the effects. We did it from a few positions and the best we found was directly behind the disabled area which although quite far back is bang in the middle. It is hard to fault. I wasn't expecting it to be so good, I'm much more of a fan of the displays over water usually where there is more scope for a bit of spectacle but this showed what can be done with limited space. The only thing it lacked was a real explosive finale, but I understand the locals were moaning about the bangers they were setting off at the end so they've toned it down. Shame that, as it is otherwise pretty flawless. 9.5/10 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So what do I think of the park over all? There is no doubting it is quite odd. Looking back at that report there are a couple of real glaring omission to the line up; how a park of that size can have no water ride is beyond me, and looking at the Disneyland park alone there are no shows. A Disney park without any shows, be it live action or 3/4D is a very odd thing. My park map shows a theatre somewhere near Thunder Mountain and one in Fantasyland but they were not in use, and at the exit of Space Mountain is a huge theatre still with the captain EO signage up but showing nothing. As well as this there were a HUGE amount of areas boarded off with ugly fencing. From the top of my head - about a third of the entrance plaza, a huge lump of adventureland which I now know was hiding a closed Aladdin walkthrough, another area near the entrance of adventureland which as far as I can tell houses nothing, part of the castle housing 'Dragon' and Casey Jr Train along with the advertised to be closed but not boarded off teacups. It is not that things were closed so much as the ugly fencing. Also there are information boards around the park with queue times etc displaying wait times for rides which don't exist, I can only presume they are ex attractions (I've just looked up 'Honey I Shrunk the Audience' it closed 2 and a half years ago, yet is still displayed!), this sort of thing really makes the place feel unloved and run down. I could not make up my mind whether all these closed areas were a sign of improvements, that they were working to make it better, or if instead it is things they can't be bothered to fix properly so they board it up ad pretend it's not there. Surely they can't be actively working on all these areas at once? As a first time visitor here, and having done all the American Disney parks, there is really no comparison. Paris does not come close to offering the escapism and perfect fantasy off the originals, but as a stop gap, a way to satisfy some Disney craving without having to get across the Atlantic, it is still very much worth a visit. Not as a replacement though, for those who have the choice it is more than worth it to save, fly to America, and do it properly. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And so ends Disney and our trip. Time for a sad face as we leave the room for the last time. We were planning a few nights camping in the outskirts of Paris but the weather took a turn and trying to fry your sausage in the rain is no ones idea of fun, so we drove back to Calais and hopped on the next boat outta there, tired but happy and with some great memories. I think that's more than enough of that. Paris - done.

Air (5) Battle Galleons (5) Berry Bish Bash (4) Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (5) Congo River Rapids (5) Driving School (5) Doodle Doo Derby (5) Duel - The Haunted House Strikes Back (6) Enterprise (5) Frog Hopper (5) Galloper's Carousel (5) Haunted Hollow (5) Heave Ho! (5) Hex - The Legend Of The Towers (5) Ice Age The 4D Experience (5) Marauders Mayhem (5) Nemesis (7) Nemesis Sub-Terra (6) Oblivion (7) Old Macdonalds Singing Barn (5) Ripsaw (5) Rita (4) Riverbank Eye Spy (5) Runaway Mine Train (5) Twirling Toadstool (5) There's Something In The Dungheap (2) The Blade (5) The Flume (5) The Gardens (6) The Towers (5) Th13teen (6) Sonic Spinball (4) Sharkbait Reef by SEA LIFE (6) Skyride (5) Squirrel Nutty Ride (5) Submission (3) Wobble World (4) --- BishBash + Dungheap -

And from me, a quick thanks to the team for the opportunity to help out around here. To all, I'm always around for a chat or PM if you need anything. I look forward to being of service.... Pete

Still don't think a throughput nightmare like Vengeance will go anywhere near Thorpe, another (quieter) dungeon is much more appropriate.

Air (5) Battle Galleons (5) Berry Bish Bash (5) Charlie & The Chocolate Factory (5) Congo River Rapids (5) Driving School (5) Doodle Doo Derby (5) Duel - The Haunted House Strikes Back (5) Enterprise (5) Frog Hopper (5) Galloper's Carousel (5) Haunted Hollow (5) Heave Ho! (5) Hex - The Legend Of The Towers (5) Ice Age The 4D Experience (5) Marauders Mayhem (5) Nemesis (6) Nemesis Sub-Terra (6) Oblivion (5) Old Macdonalds Singing Barn (5) Ripsaw (5) Rita (5) Riverbank Eye Spy (5) Runaway Mine Train (5) Twirling Toadstool (5) There's Something In The Dungheap (4) The Blade (5) The Flume (5) The Gardens (6) The Towers (5) Th13teen (5) Sonic Spinball (5) Sharkbait Reef by SEA LIFE (5) Skyride (5) Squirrel Nutty Ride (5) Submission (3) Wobble World (5) --- Nemesis + Dungheap -

He looks more like Nick Knowles to me. *Runs and hides

Or an ugly waste of space? Or not a good ride?

With the 2012 season over and new coaster opportunities over for another year I guess it is time to try and decide how this years new experiences change things. Things also shuffle about with the passage of time, as memories fade of rides experienced on single distant visits those I am more familiar with rise to the top... COASTERS 1 - Nemesis (AT) - Pretty much perfect in every way. By far (until OzIris happened) the best B+M invert I've ridden. 2 - Zeus (Asterix) - Huge amounts of airtime and a pleasing roughness giving it some real character. 3 - OzIris (Asterix) - Lives up to the initial reviews, immaculately themed, beautifully paced and just keeps giving. 4 - Goliath (6flags MM) - Because greying out is always fun. Immense. 5 - Ghost Rider (KBF) - Wood, long, fast. Some people moan about it's roughness but that's how I like it. 6 - Salvation (6flags MM) - This is the smooth fast style of Woodie AT should be looking at. And fire effects on a WOODEN coaster? Yes please! 7 - The Swarm (Thorpe) - After an underwhelming first ride it has grown on me no end. The first drop, station fly over, theming and interaction make it. Still think it is a little short and dies at the end though. 8 - Air (AT) - It's a great design for a flying coaster, just the right intensity. Might not be as big and impressive as Tatsu, but rides a whole lot better. 9 - X2 (6flags MM) - In may ways quite a horrible painful ride, but it is so unique and does have its moments of brilliance. 10 - Stealth (Thorpe) - Probably because I haven't ridden TTD. The drop-outs: Oblivion (AT) - Unthinkable it wouldn't be up there quite recently. It is still pretty amazing but the state of the poor old thing is starting to actually detract from the experience, hopefully SW7 will include a solid spruce up. Again, it's just the right design for a dive machine and the original pre ride build up really ramped up the fear. SheiKra might do a lot else, but it doesn't do the dive as well so what's the point? Dragon Fury - (Chessington) I do love spinning coasters and this is the best example imo. Not ridden this year, think it might creep back in in future. Steeplechase - (BPB) Could no longer justify having such a novelty coaster up there. Probably one of the least forceful coasters in the world. But I love it, so much fun. Extra points for being a massive F U to health and safety - don't wanna die? Best hold on then! The nearly made its: Big Thunder Mountain (DLRP) Sooooo much fun. Crushes Coaster (DLRP) Outside of throughput problems deserves none of the hate thrown at it. Solid coaster with fun Disney standard dark ride start. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Non coasters 1 - The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman (IOA) - It really is amazing. I rode it again and again, sometimes with the glasses on, sometimes off, trying to work out how it all works. However they've done it the overall result is sensational, completely immersing you in another world. 2 - Mickeys Philarmagic (DMK) - Just enchanting. It is 10minute slice of pure Disney; funny, sickly sweet and perfect in every way. 3 - Tower Of Terror (DLRP) - A change from the USA to France, this sequence I thought was superb. Totally immersive experience leads up to an incredibly fun ride. The corridor disappearing into the night sky is another effect that makes my head hurt with it's brilliance. 4 - Hex - (AT) - A superbly executed, deeply themed walk through leading to a great effect in the madhouse. Now I know what's coming I love watching the reactions of those who don't. Sets the standard for UK theming. 5 - Bilge Rat Barges (IOA) - The best water ride I've ridden. So wild, makes all other rapids rides feel tame. 6 - Mission Space (Epcot) - Such a clever trick, the effect is amazing 7 - Nemesis Sub Terra (AT) - The thought of this being on here after my first pathetic experience was laughable, but they really have turned it around. 8 - Cinemagique (DLRP) - Not much more than a film showing, but what a film and massively enhanced by the few real life effects. 9 - Hearts and Diamonds (aka round-up) - (Various travelling fairs) You can spend all you like on a big shiny s+s prototype, but the ultimate 'flat' thrill is still this very simple, seatbelt-less, incredibly intense ride. Huge throughput for a flat, too. Why don't they turn up in modern theme parks? 10 - The Snails - (Joyland, Grt Yarmouth) - A really personal choice, one of my earliest memories. Having ridden it again as an adult it is still a fun ride with character that can only come with age. (decided it is actually a coaster, still love it just as much) The drop outs: Simple because they don't exist any more, other than as husks of their former selves. Current rides only is my new rule. Bubbleworks - (CWOA) - The original, no ducks allowed. The main ride was pure childish fun with a bit of soul, the finale was a truly awesome effect to a child. Bring on the strobes. 5th Dimension (CWOA) - Getting shrunk and attacked by Arctic alien with laser type things, an 8 year olds dream. The smell of dry ice puts me right back in front of zapomatic even now. What I would give to be able to ride it today.

EDIT this is in reply to a rather good post which was above but has been deleted, so makes not much sense now. Oh wells Thanks for that clearly very well informed insight into the parks operations, it really interests me to see how it works (and why it sometimes doesn't). That is a much better explanation of the system used to manage fastrack and the reasons it sometimes fails. You mention the limit is moveable, would you be able to say what factor it is that allows for that movement? I still maintain the limit should not be moveable as the capacity of the ride is the defining factor and that it static, unless you can explain why it should move? And yes the time slots obviously should be rigorously enforced. The system as it stands seems to have fallen over on numerous occasions this year. I'm surprised they haven't made significant changes before now, even if it is as simple as making staff enforce the times. The second train issue is where my sympathy is slightly lost. I don't doubt it is a difficult job. I don't doubt it takes a lot of time and training to be able to do it. I don't doubt it is an expensive undertaking and a significant portion of the costs of running the whole park. But they know their opening times, they know the work that needs to be done and how long that will take. Unexpected things will happen and that can't be helped, but if they know they are planning to fail by not having the rides cleared in time for opening then something should be changed. Whether that be the hours engineers work, or number of engineers employed, or how they are trained is not for me to say. Good to hear they get crap from above when it is not up to scratch, got to keep them on their toes! All that matters to me as the consumer is the rides are open and queues are managed fairly with wait times reasonable and reflective of the busyness of the park. How the park achieve that is up to them. But from my own experiences, those of my non enthusiast friends and family, and clearly a good few people on here and other forums, it has simply not been achieved consistently recently.

How would this be in any way possible, seeing as you can see the whole of the queueline?

I think we would have to know a lot more about the facts of what happened before making such a judgement.

It is true that some of the sets and especially figures are quite knackered, but I wonder how much of the dressing will simply get transferred across, including the less good bits. £££

If you is old enough, go and vote this evening. S'important, init.

I'm expecting the new dungeons to suck. They need to make them proper dungeony, which I can't imagine will be cheap, so I doubt they will be. I hope to be wrong.

On to t'other side of the park... starting at the back with Pirates of the Caribbean, I was underwhelmed. I'd heard good things about the Paris incarnation, and the queue line walk through is really nicely done being dark and atmospheric, but the ride itself felt static and shrunken compared to the others. Especially the battle scene. Still a bloody amazing dark ride by other standards, but against Disneys own, not good enough. 7.5/10. Around this area is Adventure Isle, a small collection of pathways, caves and bridges. It is like Alice's Labyrinth without stuff to see and do on the way round, I like the idea of this sort of thing but it has to have a point. 4/10 Indiana Jones and the Temple of Peril is just about the least Disney ride I have ever found at a Disney park. It put me in a bad mood before we even started by opening at 11.00 with no one bothering to put any signs up explaining this leading to a largish group of people standing at a rope with no one coming out to tell us anything for about 15 minutes. It is just basics and not good enough to allow things like this to happen. After an OK themed collection of cattlepens on to the ride itself, it really is average at best. Small, too open, uninteresting layout with rotting looking theming. It is not on a Disney scale and with the Temple of the Forbiden Eye showing what can be done with the franchise this can't help but feel like a wasted opportunity. Still, as it was walk on we rode it loads and enjoyed it for what it was, 6.5/10 For no apparent reason I took no photos of this side of the park, so here is a picture of a castle. Phantom Manor is another example struggling against its direct comparisons. All in English, which is nice, but the whole way through I was distracted by the ceiling being too well lit and unthemed to the room. Sounds like a silly little thing but really detracts from the ride. Still clever and amazing in a lot of ways 7/10. Riverboat Landing is the traditional boat ride, nice and gentle but floats by an eyesore of a mess towards the end. I can't think of anything it may once have been but now lloks like an ugly pile of white concrete. Odd. 7/10 Still no photos, lets go back to Asterix to see what Zeus did to my face... ...still smiling about that ride now. Anyway, Big Thunder Mountain is the highlight of the park. Immaculately themed from start to finish (none of this theming fell in our faces, which was a bonus) fast, long interestingly unsmooth without ever nudging uncomfortable, interesting lift hill, interaction with scenes as you move through, the novelty and speed of the underground section. It can't be faulted really, so we rode it over and over and over. The highlight being the one ride we managed to get in the dark before the show 9.5/10

Some of them did, less than half though I think. If anything it made the knackered looking ones look worse having a shiny new one following it round. It is the station I really hope gets the attention, it looks shocking at the moment and the track will look really bad so close to new stuff it it doesn't get painted.

It has probably gone vertical now, there's just no one there to see it. TTF have been due to send up their eye in the sky for the last few days but have been scuppered by heavy fog. A big part of me doesn't want to see, I want to turn up on the day and see it for myself as a big surprise. But I fear a bigger part of me will be clicking away once pics are up as I can't fight the curiosity. In other kind of SW7 related news it seems Enterprise is getting either replaced or well tarted up for next season. A site that apparently don't want any sort of promotion have posted some images that you really shouldn't look at, they wouldn't like it. So that leads to some questions. How much of X-sector is getting attention? Is this really for enterprise? Will submission be worked on too, or maybe this could be an opportunity to put it out of it's misery? Most of all, will Oblivion get the work it desperately need to stop the station looking like it's made out of cardboard and the track like it is knackered compared to the shiny new Gerst next door? Exciting stuff.

I don't 'do' these things so probably don't have full appreciation of what you have done there, but that is a good looking park!

General slackness, leading to queues, leading to fastrack when not necessary if things were being done properly. I wasn't there on the last day but am told of an empty park with fastrack open and slow single train operation, which I think is how this conversation all started. I have had similar frustrations myself in recent times so can quite believe it. I hate the enthusiast v's general public thing. They are to a massive extent the same thing. I think there's some underestimation of the knowledge of the general public and how much they notice what is going on. Knowing my geekiness and willingness to talk about all things theme park many of my non enthusiast friends talk to me about visits to all sorts of parks, for the last couple of years the things have they been increasingly talking moaning about to me have been fastrack and carpark charges, much more so than the positives of new rides. No one expects it to be cheap, but what they have a problem with is when it becomes poor value and expensive to actually get on the rides.

Always miss all the exciting stuff going down. No idea what's gone on but as someone who's on here quite a lot it's not anything I've heard so please don't think everyone's at it behind your backs. Also noticed another prominent, long term (and as far as I could tell decent) member has found themselves on the banned list. I'm sure it is the correct action and necessary if the team have decided that course of action, but it's a shame it has to be so final so frequently. It's not something I see happening so much elsewhere.

Thank Christ you are not in charge then, that is an absurd way to look at things. I guess it all comes down to the standards people find acceptable, your standards must be particularly low. And? Just because they've done something does not make it enough. Stealth is as simple as peas if you compare it to a lot of the stuff in American parks which is often operated for twice as long each day and for a complete 365 day season. It's all just excuses, if they are preparing to fail each day people should moan about it and anyone that gives a crap about the park shouldn't be defending it. To nudge this somewhere back towards fastrack again, if people see the park not allowing low queues to exist due to poor operation during the short amount of quiet time on a busy day or at any time on a quiet day, and all the time they are selling fastrack, they will question the motive behind the reduced capacity. I believe it is a money making rouse, if not directly then they are at least not giving themselves any motivation to get things right from the off. Cynical? Maybe, but most visitors don't give the tiniest crap about why there's one train/late opening/a hardly moving queue. They just want to get on the ride.

I don't quite understand you reasoning in defending the park so relentlessly Tinie. All that you've said as to why this happens is not something that is necessary if the park is run properly, rather than a reasonable excuse you are merely describing the result of poor management. If they are carrying out scheduled maintenance during park opening hours then they are not planning things as they should and maintenance are working the wrong hours. Things will break causing downtime and within reason that is fair enough and is going to happen. But to plan to take things out of action at a place with such short daily hours and season as a whole must be wrong. They can't get the trains up in time? It's not because of the checks that need completing, it's because they are not starting those checks early enough. They think the wheels will de-laminate? They have clearly left it too long since the last change. The staff are incapable of adding or removing trains in a reasonable time? They need better training or the procedure needs improving. etc etc The best customer service would be for everything to open at capacity on time each morning and only reduce if it becomes apparent it is not needed later on. That should be the aim and would allow a bit of a margin of error when the checks do reveal a problem to get it fixed up. Making excuses doesn't deal with the problems, it just makes them worse.