I read that as it's under development throughout the 2017 season.. maybe that's just me.

2 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

 

But even today, Thorpe are posting things such as;

 

Surely they wouldn't be making statements like this if Loggers Leap wasn't returning next year in some shape or form?

 

This is precisely an example of social media being evasive.  

 

"Loggers Leap is under redevelopment for 2017" - this can have two meanings.  One meaning is that it's being developed to open in the 2017 season.  The other is that it's being developed during the 2017.  It's ambiguous.

 

"We hope for it to make a splashback soon" - this is related to the ride opening; "hope" and "soon" being key words.  Hoping means nothing really - you can hope for anything to happen, but it doesn't mean that it will or that it won't.  Saying soon gives an endless timescale, since there's no real way to measure 'soon-ness'.  

 

Put all that together and what they're saying is "Loggers Leap is closed for 2017, and it may or may not reopen in the future".  But they're giving people an evasive response to try and stop people questioning about it all the time.  And people will buy it.

25 minutes ago, Marc said:

I read that as it's under development throughout the 2017 season.. maybe that's just me.

Nope, not just you.

Ah, I didn't read it like that but it could well be saying that.

 

So essentially, this is what Thorpe could be saying;

 

-Loggers Leap has been sat idle during 2016, despite it being initially advertised as renovations. This is a WHOLE SEASON and two closed seasons they have had to complete the work.

- Despite this, it could get to 2017 before any work actually starts on the ride, and even then, the "redevelopment" may not actually happen.

 

By this point, the ride would have been sat SBNO for TWO years.

 

Utterly, utterly disgraceful.

11 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Ah, I didn't read it like that but it could well be saying that.

 

So essentially, this is what Thorpe could be saying;

 

-Loggers Leap has been sat idle during 2016, despite it being initially advertised as renovations. This is a WHOLE SEASON and two closed seasons they have had to complete the work.

- Despite this, it could get to 2017 before any work actually starts on the ride, and even then, the "redevelopment" may not actually happen.

 

By this point, the ride would have been sat SBNO for TWO years.

 

Utterly, utterly disgraceful.

 

The fact is no one on here knows what work the ride needs - we have no idea of the reasons for its closure, we've no idea how much money it will cost. The park is hardly short of water rides, in a country where at best they are popular for 2/3 months a season.

 

I'd love to see loggers reopen but the fact is the ride is advertised no where on their website, no where on the park map and he official word is they "hoped" it would return in 2017 and now they "hope" it will return in the future. 

 

Or we just read it wrong and its either opening next year or never again?

 

It's pretty clear that whatever's going on with Loggers Leap, it's happening out of the public eye. They could've torn up all the ride before the main drop for all we know, to do the second half over the coming months.

 

Whatever's happening, it'd be pretty wrong for Thorpe to claim it's being redeveloped only to close it completely.

9 hours ago, Marc said:

 

The fact is no one on here knows what work the ride needs - we have no idea of the reasons for its closure, we've no idea how much money it will cost. The park is hardly short of water rides, in a country where at best they are popular for 2/3 months a season.

 

I'd love to see loggers reopen but the fact is the ride is advertised no where on their website, no where on the park map and he official word is they "hoped" it would return in 2017 and now they "hope" it will return in the future. 

 

I don't agree that water rides are only popular for 2-3 months in a year, having seen one of the wettest rides in the country with a queue out of the extensions on some of the coldest days of the season! The Flume at Alton is another example, that always had a queue when I was there, and I usually visit out of the summer months.

 

Log Flumes are a staple ride and IMO, every theme park should have one. They appeal to everyone (families, thrillseekers etc) and Loggers was consistently popular, not just in the summer months.

10 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Ah, I didn't read it like that but it could well be saying that.

 

So essentially, this is what Thorpe could be saying;

 

-Loggers Leap has been sat idle during 2016, despite it being initially advertised as renovations. This is a WHOLE SEASON and two closed seasons they have had to complete the work.

- Despite this, it could get to 2017 before any work actually starts on the ride, and even then, the "redevelopment" may not actually happen.

 

By this point, the ride would have been sat SBNO for TWO years.

 

Utterly, utterly disgraceful.

 

It's not disgraceful. It's just something you disagree with. These parks don't just close rides for the fun of it. They are fully aware of how popular Loggers Leap was and Thorpe have shown time and time again that they have patience with disobedient rides (Slammer and Samurai I'm looking at you). There is a fundamental reason why Loggers closed in 2015. Admittedly Thorpe saying they plan to redevelop/refurb it aren't helping matters but maybe, potentially, even they don't really know if it will ever re-open. 

 

You'd have hated 2005 when Rodeo, Boneshaker, Dynamo & the whole of Cred Street closed. Not to mention the countless Blackpool rides that were SBNO at that time.

Unfortunately, Loggers Leap was not as popular as people may think. In 2014 and 2015, LoggersLeap was rated the third best water ride by guests after Tidal Wave and Storm Surge. Storm Surge also had more riders than Loggers Leap in both those years

 

It was still popular in a way, and it's decline in popularity wasn't the cause for its closure. But it was not as popular as people seem to think or make out

 

Go Tidal Wave 

4 hours ago, Odyessy said:

Unfortunately, Loggers Leap was not as popular as people may think. In 2014 and 2015, LoggersLeap was rated the third best water ride by guests after Tidal Wave and Storm Surge. Storm Surge also had more riders than Loggers Leap in both those years

 

It was still popular in a way, and it's decline in popularity wasn't the cause for its closure. But it was not as popular as people seem to think or make out

 

Why does something have to be "the best" to be kept though?

 

In all honesty I think it just needed needs some refurbishment, as there's no denying it was in a state of neglect in terms of presentation and appearance of the ride.  Aside from the required maintenance, I think that a new tunnel (with some sort of feature inside), some new items of theming and a general cleanup of the ride and surrounding area would have made a huge difference.

The problem with a refurb is it doesn't bring in new people and so doesn't make any money in the short term. As a result Merlin were never going to spend the money and so it got to a state where it was run down its popularity dropped and now it's closed. 

Merlin is so focused on the short term that I am certain this is just the next ride to suffer this fate in a long list which will form over the next few years.

To be fair painting Nemesis / Oblivion are not going to bring people in but they did it..

 

Ultimately loggers is almost a win/win - if it is refurbished and reopened great, if its demolished we have a great space for a new ride.

6 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Log Flumes are a staple ride and IMO, every theme park should have one. They appeal to everyone (families, thrillseekers etc) and Loggers was consistently popular, not just in the summer months.

 

16 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said:

By this point, the ride would have been sat SBNO for TWO years.

Utterly, utterly disgraceful.

 

Hows Blackpools log flume doing these days?! Maybe they have it in storage in Trauma Towers or the Ark, which have been SBNO for a decade. Disgraceful! 

 

As has been said, if they want to repoen the ride they will fix it up and reopen the ride - there is no question that Merin have the resources to do it, the question is whether they have the will. That they weren't willing to spend the money to prevent it falling into the dilapidated state it did prior to its closure strongly suggests that will is lacking.

1 hour ago, pluk said:

Hows Blackpools log flume doing these days?! Maybe they have it in storage in Trauma Towers or the Ark, which have been SBNO for a decade. Disgraceful! 

Blackpool's Log Flume ran until September 2006, after which deconstruction work started immediately, ready for Infusion to come in which opened after Easter in 2007.  It was not left sat festering like Loggers Leap and The Flume.

 

(The removal of BPB's Log Flume was IMO a huge loss to the park, as it was by far the best standard log flume in the UK, but at least they announced the closure giving people a final chance to ride it, and it was removed for a reason; not just left to rot).

9 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

(The removal of BPB's Log Flume was IMO a huge loss to the park, as it was by far the best standard log flume in the UK, but at least they announced the closure giving people a final chance to ride it, and it was removed for a reason; not just left to rot).

 

 

 

Like it or not Loggers Leap will have closed for a reason - just because we dont know that reason (we are guests - we have no divine right to know the reasons behind everything) - does not mean there isnt one. 

A good reason though? It really was left to rot with no refurbishment, and no replacement drawn up in time when they all knew it was coming. True the park can disclose whatever they want.

 

If guests, including theme park enthusiasts (I'd actually argue there are more families and guests who love Loggers more than enthusiasts, especially as its been around so long), don't complain about its unexplained closure, then its a business case that the park can carry on shutting rides without consequence.

 

These parks work wholly on consumer choice and profit-led business now. If guests do complain, score low on the surveys (a ridiculous method of feeback but its what Merlin attention to) and dont return in as big numbers because of all the rides they enjoy being unjustifiably closed, then the park have reason to improve.

 

However, if guests are told not to complain, to keep supporting the park in their bad decisions, then they have no business case to ever change their behaviour, and will only carry on shutting good attractions, not maintaining them, not considering the long run, etc.. I'm sure many at the park want Loggers open as much as guests do but higher up company management lets consider here.

 

If the company was less blindly market driven and focussed on maximising guest experience from the top down, then they'd be able to have pre empted Loggers closure and never let it get in such a condition. This is happening seriously across all Merlin-bought UK parks now. Years of decline and tarting up in the short term.

I don't disagree - the post I'm making is I've no doubt the park do have plans for loggers redevelopment- be that reopening the ride or a new attraction - just because we don't know these plans don't mean they are not on-going behind the scenes.

 

As I said I loved loggers - but the park is hardly short of water rides - and for some reason guests seem to absolutely love Storm Surge so as much as I miss it - i don't think it's closure has an adverse effect on visits.

29 minutes ago, Marc said:

Like it or not Loggers Leap will have closed for a reason - just because we dont know that reason (we are guests - we have no divine right to know the reasons behind everything) - does not mean there isnt one. 

I know there will be a reason for Loggers Leap being closed - of course there will.

My point (in line with Pluk's comparison with Blackpool's Log Flume) is that Blackpool's Log Flume was nearing the end of its life, and they knew it.  BPB organised a replacement for it and deconstruction work started immediately after the ride's (announced!) closure, ready for Infusion to open the following year.  The Log Flume was not at any point throughout this process sat idle, rotting away behind a fence.  Deconstruction started the day after the ride closed.

 

Then you look at Loggers Leap, which in some ways is a similar situation; the ride has got to a state where it is unable to run, so the choice is essentially refurbishment or replacement.  Oh, but wait.  Neither has happened.  The ride has been left sat behind a fence, rotting away, for an entire park season, and (soon to be) two closed seasons.  If BPB (who were at the time in heavy debt) can organise a replacement, remove the Log Flume and get the replacement built and open within a short space of time, why is the so-called "second biggest theme park operator in the world, second only to Disney" leaving rides rotting?

11 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I know there will be a reason for Loggers Leap being closed - of course there will.

My point (in line with Pluk's comparison with Blackpool's Log Flume) is that Blackpool's Log Flume was nearing the end of its life, and they knew it.  BPB organised a replacement for it and deconstruction work started immediately after the ride's (announced!) closure, ready for Infusion to open the following year.  The Log Flume was not at any point throughout this process sat idle, rotting away behind a fence.  Deconstruction started the day after the ride closed.

 

Then you look at Loggers Leap, which in some ways is a similar situation; the ride has got to a state where it is unable to run, so the choice is essentially refurbishment or replacement.  Oh, but wait.  Neither has happened.  The ride has been left sat behind a fence, rotting away, for an entire park season, and (soon to be) two closed seasons.  If BPB (who were at the time in heavy debt) can organise a replacement, remove the Log Flume and get the replacement built and open within a short space of time, why is the so-called "second biggest theme park operator in the world, second only to Disney" leaving rides rotting?

 

I'm fairly certain BPB have had a number of rides SBNO before - ok maybe not their log flume.

 

Thorpe opened DBGT (regardless if you like it or not) so it's not quite as if they've removed a ride , reducing the offering without continuing to invest.

10 minutes ago, Marc said:

I'm fairly certain BPB have had a number of rides SBNO before - ok maybe not their log flume.

They have.  The park was in very heavy debt for quite a few years, hence why a lot of rides were SBNO.  At the time I was furious, so I'm not making any defence for it, but I will say that the circumstances were extremely different to the Merlin parks; Blackpool's rides were SBNO so the park could actually survive (and individual reasons but that was the main one), whereas Merlin are a big company making a huge profit year-on-year.

10 minutes ago, Marc said:

Thorpe opened DBGT (regardless if you like it or not) so it's not quite as if they've removed a ride , reducing the offering without continuing to invest.

That thing was delayed twice (or was it three times), hardy open even when it was supposed to be and major elements not functioning!  I'd take having Loggers Leap open over DBGT any day!

12 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

They have.  The park was in very heavy debt for quite a few years, hence why a lot of rides were SBNO.  At the time I was furious, so I'm not making any defence for it, but I will say that the circumstances were extremely different to the Merlin parks; Blackpool's rides were SBNO so the park could actually survive (and individual reasons but that was the main one), whereas Merlin are a big company making a huge profit year-on-year.

That thing was delayed twice (or was it three times), hardy open even when it was supposed to be and major elements not functioning!  I'd take having Loggers Leap open over DBGT any day!

 

Thats not my point though - they still opened up something - and I'd be fairly confident that more people will have rode DBGT despite its issues than would have rode Loggers Leap.

Redevelopment and renovations have two completely different meanings.

 

What is it they are saying now? Redevelopment? Then say your goodbyes now, redevelopment implies being torn down and something being put in its place.

4 minutes ago, Ian-S said:

Redevelopment and renovations have two completely different meanings.

 

What is it they are saying now? Redevelopment? Then say your goodbyes now, redevelopment implies being torn down and something being put in its place.

Renovation is the process of improving a broken, damaged, or outdated structure. 

 

Redevelopment is any new construction on a site that has pre-existing uses.

 

I prefer the dictionary not wiki but they essentially say the same:

 

redevelop

riːdɪˈvɛləp/

verb

develop (something) again or differently.

"the technology was redeveloped during the crusades"

construct new buildings in (an urban area), typically after demolishing the existing buildings.

 

Although I sometimes wonder whether the PR department realise their every word is picked apart for clues and hidden meaning like a Westworld episode is.

 

Shame, I had a soft spot for loggers, was my first flume ever and I got to share that with a lovely childhood friend who sadly never lived to see her 17th birthday.