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The Small Parks Thread

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Let's be honest, what's the point of an entire thread dedicated to Parc Saint Paul?

 

Sooooo I thought why not put all those smaller places into one topic that will see the likes of PSP, Le Pal and many, many more have updates on what they're getting in the future for all budding cred runners!

 

 

To start off, Parc Saint Paul are getting a Gravity Group wooden coaster next year:

 

 

Elsewhere in France, Le Pal (near Lyon) is getting a JOYvelen clone (https://rcdb.com/15072.htm), and a brand new park in Parc Spirou (https://rcdb.com/12676.htm) is being built in the South, with a Zierer tower launched thing coming with it.

 

There's also a new park being built in Rotterdam (https://rcdb.com/12091.htm)! Now home to an old Japanese Shuttle Loop, and located an old power station area, information on other bits on there are sparse however. A Zoo in Emmen is also building a Duelling set of Vekoma Jr Boomerangs.

 

Ankapark in Turkey should open with it's ridiculous amount of mediocrity. Land of Legends down in Antalya however is building a clone of Lewa World's Flash Mack Mega-Coaster.

 

Finally Jardin d'Acclimatiation in Paris is getting a Gerstlauer Bobsled with an adorable plane theme (https://rcdb.com/14454.htm).

 

 

Feel free to post any old nonsense in here for the random places around the world, I'm sure a few more places are due to announce new things over winter...

 

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Very excited by the Gravity for Saint Paul, the World needs more of those beasts and I need another reason to visit that crazy park.

 

Not happy about Flash and Juv being cloned though, that's disgusting news.

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A new theme park / mall thing in New Jersey is getting a Takabisha (y'know, world's steepest coaster) clone, intertwined with a Gerstlauer spinner coaster.  And it's Nickelodeon themed.  Oh, and it's all indoors..

 

20953232_1926517237615592_28651750463853 

 

After several delays to this project, it's due in 2019...

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Second post in this thread and second moan about cloning coasters

 

Stop it!

 

It takes a large amount of allure from the original and gives me no interest in visiting the clone. Especially something are legendary as Takabisha, insulting! What's next, clone Dodonpa?!

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23 hours ago, Mega-Lite said:

Second post in this thread and second moan about cloning coasters

 

Stop it!

 

It takes a large amount of allure from the original and gives me no interest in visiting the clone. Especially something are legendary as Takabisha, insulting! What's next, clone Dodonpa?!

 

I'd agree if it was another park in Japan getting a Takabisha clone after all what would be the point. But a park in New Jersey? Gives more people the opportunity to ride that particular layout surely..

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Mark you've pretty much justified my issues with that post.

 

Why go to X country and ride the only one when you can ride a rip off 10 minutes up the road?

 

It takes a lot away from the status of the original and by default creates less interest in the cloned one. Really bothers me.

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If a person can't be bothered to expand their horizons it's their loss...

 

I'd rather go to Japan than New Jersey, but if it allows more people to experience a particular ride, then wahey...

 

There's some irony I'm sure you've not missed of having Piraten as your avatar ;)

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But it punishes those who do go seek out these legendary monsters.

 

Why not build the same coaster type and make it custom? It makes the new coaster worth hunting down and original and leaves the one that came first unique.

 

You guys stay moist for Taron, so...

 

Thorpe announce for 2022 they are getting a Taron clone. Do you...

 

1) Get so excited that you can now ride the same coaster an hour from your house.

 

or

 

2) Moan because you want something new and exciting. Also accepting it's going to harm the mystique of Taron.

 

Also Benin, I'm trying something nerdy and smart ass for my avatar, if I remember all will be clear in time!

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By clone are we just getting the track, or effectively the entirety of Klugheim?

 

It's really variable, like there will be a massive difference between Takabashi and the clone because the clone is indoors... It's like all those Blue Fire clones, none have the same level of theming as the Europa Park one, but is it good that these parks are getting a good quality major coaster? I'd say so, much like with Le Pal getting a JOYvelen and it being a real quality ride...

 

Let's be honest, saying this:

2 hours ago, Mega-Lite said:

But it punishes those who do go seek out these legendary monsters.

 

Is just enthusiast elitism, since the MAJORITY of guests will have never ridden the original... It's the same way like all the UK enthusiasts bemoaned the additions of Krake and Baron at their respective parks; yet visit and they are the most popular attractions there...

 

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For a lot of smaller parks it allows them to build a tried and tested layout that will be a hit without spending all the money on design. 

 

Vekoma made a business from selling multiple SLCs and boomerangs. And I know what clones I'd prefer to see on the market. 

 

More creds, more parks. I see zero issue. 99.9999% of people that have ridden Takabisha will not trek New Jersey fora nick themed park. And anyone who does will most likely go "oh they have one of those back home and it's pretty good."

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9 hours ago, Mega-Lite said:

Mark you've pretty much justified my issues with that post.

 

Why go to X country and ride the only one when you can ride a rip off 10 minutes up the road?

 

It takes a lot away from the status of the original and by default creates less interest in the cloned one. Really bothers me.

 

Coming from an enthusiast. The vast majority of the public will never have even heard of the original let alone go and ride it. The snobbery around cloned rides also bothers me, if a ride is good why shouldn't the manufacturer reap the rewards by cloning it if a park wants it.

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Creds aside, rides should not always be judged purely on layout but other factors such as theming and landscaping. These things alone can also define the quality and differences of an attraction. 

 

For example, Piraten and Alaina Blitz feature identical/nearly identical layouts, yet both remain noticeably different in theme and appearance. It should also be mentioned both are highly popular in both the parks they belong to.

 

I don't have a major concern of rides with clone/nearly identical layouts being implemented into other parks, especially if they feature exciting and remarkable layouts and turn up within smaller parks. Would never say no to a Tomahawk clone at Oakwood or Drayton Manor. Never going to happen though.

 

I should also note Flight Of Pterosaur at Paultons was a clone, yet did wonders for that charming park, as a result of being the joint headlining attraction to the park's new themed area.  the Lost Kingdom may well be Paulton's most successful and richly themed area to date.

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6 hours ago, Benin said:

By clone are we just getting the track, or effectively the entirety of Klugheim?

Just the track of course, clones haven't stolen themes, yet.

1 hour ago, Timber Creek said:

For example, Piraten and Alaina Blitz feature identical/nearly identical layouts, yet both remain noticeably different in theme and appearance.

Well, one's Mack and Mack is better. ;)

 

Let it be known I'm not including the thousands of SLCs and Boomerangs or even the smaller stuff like Pterosaur, I'm bothered by the sudden rise in big named coasters getting cloned, I'm surprised I'm the only bothered by it really. 

 

Please don't assume I'm not fully aware of how and why coasters are cloned, however that doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

I've already said my piece as much as I can so I'll do the mature thing, stop, but be waiting for a clone to trigger one of you guys so I can laugh.

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31 minutes ago, Mega-Lite said:

I've already said my piece as much as I can so I'll do the mature thing, stop, but be waiting for a clone to trigger one of you guys so I can laugh.

 

Could have been a good discussion to be honest. Nobody here seems particularly angry or emotional about your first post, they are just debating the points you made. 

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I'm not dropping it because I think people are upset, not at all, I'm dropping it because I've said all I can say about it and there's not really much more to add, without it just becoming a cycle of repetition. I know it's hard to judge context in text form but I hope I'm not coming across upset either! :)

 

You guys are just looking at it from a mind set I can't get behind and aren't willing to suspend it in order to see where I'm coming from.

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12 hours ago, Mega-Lite said:

But it punishes those who do go seek out these legendary monsters.

 

Why not build the same coaster type and make it custom? It makes the new coaster worth hunting down and original and leaves the one that came first unique.

 

You guys stay moist for Taron, so...

 

Thorpe announce for 2022 they are getting a Taron clone. Do you...

 

1) Get so excited that you can now ride the same coaster an hour from your house.

 

or

 

2) Moan because you want something new and exciting. Also accepting it's going to harm the mystique of Taron.

 

Also Benin, I'm trying something nerdy and smart ass for my avatar, if I remember all will be clear in time!

 

Getting a Taron clone at Thorpe would be a completely different ball game though surely? 

 

With Takabisha, we're talking about a coaster being cloned at a park almost 7000 miles away.  They're in different continents, different cultures, different everything pretty much.  

 

A Taron clone at Thorpe would mean the same coaster a mere 325 miles away, in parks which are arguably more similar than different if you look at it simply.  And there's a bigger likelihood that more people (ie ones outside the enthusiast community) will actually visit both parks in this case.

 

I'm not saying that the right-ness or wrong-ness of whether a coaster should be cloned comes down to the locations of the parks or how similar a park is.  But you're throwing up a example which is pretty incompatible to be honest.  A fairer example would be, say, a situation in which we see Smiler cloned in China - how would people feel then?  How would you feel?  From what you're saying, it seems like you'd be less bothered since you've got the original an hour or two up the road rather than having to trek half way across the world for it?  

 

In fairness, I agree with what you're saying in principle - it's a shame to see some of the mammoth coasters cloned and reproduced, especially ones that are 'special' in whatever way.  But I only see it as a shame because it means there's less new coasters out there, meaning there's less chance of more 'special' ones.  Imagine if all the parks that have Blue Fire clones each did something slightly different - sooner or later, there'd have been one which would have been 'special'...even if it's in the depths of Russia or wherever.  But it doesn't bother or trigger me as it does you, because it still means that some parks are getting quality additions at least...

 

 

Oh, and if Thorpe DID get a Taron clone, I'd be over the moon.  I'd agree that it takes away from the mystique of Taron itself, and I doubt it'd be as good because Thorpe wouldn't be able to create an atmosphere like Klugheim, but I'd still love it.  Thorpe, make it happen please. ;)

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Yes, I think it's safe to say at 7000 miles apart, the amount of people who will actually be in position to ride both coasters will somewhat be a small minority. 

 

Lets also not forget Thorpe's Colossus features clones at parks in China, Italy and Russia plus an additional two on the way within parks in Turkey and Malaysia. 

 

If Thorpe got a Taron clone, it would certainly be more of a good thing as the coaster is amazing and one of my favourites, from a personal perspective. A different layout would be a strong vantage point though and strongly preferred.

 

It's difficult to say what Thorpe would even get next as a major investment (however likely a coaster), but maybe a Taron style attraction is something on the short list.

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I'm not a huge fan of cloned coasters, original layouts are much better IMO however I don't really have an issue with manufacturers building ride models with the intention of cloning them (SLCs, Boomerangs/Junior Boomerangs etc); however I do think it's a cop out for a park/manufacturer to copy an original design coaster in another park.

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What is an original design nowadays though? Technically speaking from a business sense.

 

Like Mack have sold a few Blue Fire clones, now that ride was solely designed for Europa and to advertise the ride type, but to get custom some parks could only afford an already made model.

 

Now obviously some rides are harder to clone such as Taron with its theming, Nemesis with the rockery etc. But it happens. There's that pure Oblivion clone on a hill somewhere in Asia.

 

Smiler? Seems pretty unique to Towers, but Gerst advertise it with a model number on the infinity coaster brochure and have an awesome model they take to IAAPA. Odds are Merlin have some exclusivity deal to the design, as I'm sure is the case with many ride layouts. But in a few years, if someone wanted a Smiler clone Gerstlauer aren't going to turn away the business. Because, end of the day that's what it is, business.

 

I agree original designs are fab, and parks should where possible create a ride to suit them and not just plonk down a ride with little thought. But, for the smaller parks this is what they can afford, and in a sense puts them out there on the map. For example; that park getting the Juvelen clone I'd never heard of. It is now on my radar and might be worth a visit knowing they are getting a ride that is a proven success. Plus, it's easier for me to get to.

 

I'd rather a park full of amazing cloned rides than poorly designed, naff rides.

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Djurs is just as easy to get to as Le Pal (fly and drive)...

 

It's all cost though, can't imagine Helix or Icon costing less than Blue Fire Dinosaur edition. And that's purely out of that extra design stage required, and hence more unique pieces needing to be manufactured/drawn up/etc.

 

There's room for clones, especially when smaller parks are building them to get on the ladder...

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10 hours ago, BaronC. said:

In fairness, I agree with what you're saying in principle - it's a shame to see some of the mammoth coasters cloned and reproduced, especially ones that are 'special' in whatever way.  But I only see it as a shame because it means there's less new coasters out there, meaning there's less chance of more 'special' ones.  Imagine if all the parks that have Blue Fire clones each did something slightly different - sooner or later, there'd have been one which would have been 'special'...even if it's in the depths of Russia or wherever.  But it doesn't bother or trigger me as it does you, because it still means that some parks are getting quality additions at least...

 

I don't think its a shame at all. As many people as possible should have the opportunity to get on these rides, cloned or not.  It's being painted as being very easy to just hop on planes and go everywhere but that isn't the reality. I shall never ride the Dubai, China or Russian blue fire clones because of cultural and law issues (and moral but thats a discussion for a different topic) for example. If Europa Parks version hadn't opened first, I'd miss out on a fantastic ride because of it. That isn't a situation unique to just me.

 

In conclusion, cloned rides give more people the opportunity to ride a product. If Nemesis was cloned in China, that doesn't take anything whatsoever away from the original.

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I guess calling it a shame isn't the right phrase.  What I more mean is, if parks did a variation of Blue Fire rather, something that was clearly inspired by it, as opposed to a like-for-like clone, we'd be seeing more and more great, different rides. 

 

There's the park in Australia, for example, which has a Eurofighter with a layout extremely inspired by Saw's layout (the indoor section is a clone actually).  It doesn't detract from Saw in any way, but the new layout looks to be just as good, if not better.  And the cost and development is probably no different than sticking in a clone really. 

 

Of course not everyone will get to ride all these different things.  And it doesn't bother me if clones pop up elsewhere as it usually means quality rides are coming to small parks.  But it'd be nice if they had the chance / ability / bravery / whatever to deviate from the clones to potentially create an even better experience.

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12 hours ago, BaronC. said:

Getting a Taron clone at Thorpe would be a completely different ball game though surely? 

Please explain? Same track layout, same launch speeds, same trains, the only 2 things that change would be the setting and how it rides (assuming Thorpe don't look after it as well as Phantasia).

12 hours ago, BaronC. said:

With Takabisha, we're talking about a coaster being cloned at a park almost 7000 miles away.  They're in different continents, different cultures, different everything pretty much.  

Yes, the setting is changing but that's about it, once again the coaster would ride almost exactly the same bar the fact Japan clearly maintain their coasters better (through hardly operating them). Not sure how culture affects the layout, unless you mean in Japan you're surrounded by beautiful women versus America Texans wearing cowboy hats and shooting into the air during the loop.

12 hours ago, BaronC. said:

I'm not saying that the right-ness or wrong-ness of whether a coaster should be cloned comes down to the locations of the parks or how similar a park is.  But you're throwing up a example which is pretty incompatible to be honest

I'm not throwing up anything in particular, I'm just moaning in general. Remember France is cloning Juvelen, that's certainly not that far away.

12 hours ago, BaronC. said:

A fairer example would be, say, a situation in which we see Smiler cloned in China - how would people feel then?  How would you feel?  From what you're saying, it seems like you'd be less bothered since you've got the original an hour or two up the road rather than having to trek half way across the world for it?  

I'd feel exactly the same, it's named landmark coasters being cloned I'm taking issue with. Put it this way, if a park in China were to CLONE Smiler, I certainly wouldn't bother going there to ride the same coaster but with more faff and less maintenance. If however China opened a brand new Gerts Infinity on the scale of Smiler, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

11 hours ago, Mitchada04 said:

For example; that park getting the Juvelen clone I'd never heard of. It is now on my radar and might be worth a visit knowing they are getting a ride that is a proven success.

See when I knew that park was getting an Intamin family launch coaster I was already looking into going there, soon as Juvelen clone was dropped, can't be be bothered any more.

1 hour ago, Mark9 said:

In conclusion, cloned rides give more people the opportunity to ride a product. If Nemesis was cloned in China, that doesn't take anything whatsoever away from the original.

Nemesis being cloned would be a travesty!

56 minutes ago, BaronC. said:

Can't delete this sorry

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