Alton Towers Controversial Opinions

[coasterverse]

Seeing as though the Thorpe Park thread went down nicely, thought it might be fun to do one about Alton Towers too.

 

Again, I’ll go first:

 

The original Haunted House wasn’t that great, and people only hold it in such a positive way purely because of nostalgia and if it were to be recreated 1:1 today would be a flop.

[Mark9]

- Gangsta Granny is actually a really solid dark ride and is only stupidly popular because of the lack of the rides at the park. 

- Corkscrew was insanely better than Thirteen. For a start, it worked in the rain

- Towers Street is genuinely awful. Every change they make to it just makes it worse and worse.

- Nemesis and Hex are rides that stand tall with the best in Europe. Everything else is B tier (or lower).

[Matt N]

I’ve got a good one… I’ve always been a bit underwhelmed by the 2003 cross valley coaster plans, and I’m glad that we got Wicker Man instead.

 

I’m aware that that’s probably a blasphemous comment, so I apologise, but I must admit that while the cross valley coaster would admittedly have been huge, it didn’t have much to it aside from two big drops, whereas Wicker Man has a bit more to it and has loads of really fun airtime pops and twists and turns.

[Benin]

Thing to remember is when those cross valley plans were first put in place GCI weren't the big name beyond the USA.

 

May have been good, may have been bad. Will never know but it's a shame it never happened.

 

Not much else to add that's particularly controversial. The park really has lost its way and allure over the years. 

[Cornflakes]

Aside from the frankly embarrassing problems with the lift hill, I think Th13teen has actually aged quite well, these days it nimbly moves through the outdoor section when it used to crawl through it

 

Not controversial to some people, very controversial to others - still think The Smiler is a very good coaster 🤷‍♀️

 

Pretty positive for controversial opinions but feel like my criticisms of the place are shared by most people 

[JoshC.]

Rita is a decent coaster, fits in well at the park and has its place. Compared to modern launch coasters / coasters with launches, it hasn't stood the test of time, but it's still good in its own right.

 

Despite needing some TLC, I really rated Duel in its current incarnation.

 

Whilst I fully understand and get the hype surrounding Nemesis' send off, I was very non-plussed by the whole thing, and (despite it being my favourite UK coaster and my #1 for a long time) I have no strong emotions about its current closure.

[coasterverse]

21 hours ago, Matt N said:

I’ve got a good one… I’ve always been a bit underwhelmed by the 2003 cross valley coaster plans, and I’m glad that we got Wicker Man instead.

 

I'm in two minds about it - on one hand, I'm sure the massive drops would've built up a tonne of speed and would've been incredible (although not very re-rideable as it would've certainly been a one-trick-wonder) - but on the other hand, I've just got a feeling that it would've aged terribly. Advancements in woodies have come along leaps and bounds since 2003, and I feel like Wicker Man came at a perfect time for longevity. I reckon the cross valley coaster, if it did open, would either have already closed and been replaced (or just sbno) by now, or incredibly rough and notoriously Alton's worst coaster.

[Trooper Looper]

I think that they shouldn't change Duel all too much, just execute it differently, that's all, and a relight with some repaints and new sfx. Hope they don't rip out much of the original scenes when it was The Haunted House. Those scenes really make the ride so unique and special to me.

 

Oblivion doesn't need a helix at the end. I think it's perfect as it is. If there was a helix, I feel that the vertical drop would give out a lot less impact to the riders and those who are watching.

[Inferno]

I think I've said this before.. but the point still very much stands..

Runaway Mine Train is genuinely terrifying.

WTF is with that wild downward right turn in to the tunnel? 🤯

[RobF]

On 11/17/2022 at 8:41 AM, Inferno said:

I think I've said this before.. but the point still very much stands..

Runaway Mine Train is genuinely terrifying.

WTF is with that wild downward right turn in to the tunnel? 🤯

RMT should have been a proper full size mine train coaster and not a mack powered coaster

[Matt N]

Based on the rage in Alton Towers fan circles about the recent demise of Enterprise, I’ve got a potentially very blasphemous Alton Towers opinion… while I don’t deny that the park could probably do with a new flat ride or two at this point, as well as a new dark ride in the form of the Dungeons boat ride reopening, I feel that the reduction of the non-coaster lineup at Alton Towers was overall a worthy price to pay for the strengthening of the coaster lineup.

[Mark9]

I'd agree if that was true. But it isn't. Each time we've lost a flat ride over the last twenty years, we've gained empty space not a new rollercoaster. 

 

Ripsaw - Nothing

Boneshaker - Nothing

Dynamo - Empty space for 9 years, it's replacement lasting only 2 and a half years

Mushroom Swinger - Nothing (although I'm still not sure if that twister is a permanent addition or not).

Enterprise - Nothing

Submission - Nothing 

 

You can count the temporary retro squad if you want, I don't as they are literally desperate additions to spread the ride line up.

 

Towers is full of these empty holes where rides used to be. None of the current rollercoaster line up were made possible because a flat ride left the park. 

 

 

[Matt N]

11 minutes ago, Mark9 said:

I'd agree if that was true. But it isn't. Each time we've lost a flat ride over the last twenty years, we've gained empty space not a new rollercoaster. 

 

Ripsaw - Nothing

Boneshaker - Nothing

Dynamo - Empty space for 9 years, it's replacement lasting only 2 and a half years

Mushroom Swinger - Nothing (although I'm still not sure if that twister is a permanent addition or not).

Enterprise - Nothing

Submission - Nothing 

 

You can count the temporary retro squad if you want, I don't as they are literally desperate additions to spread the ride line up.

 

Towers is full of these empty holes where rides used to be. None of the current rollercoaster line up were made possible because a flat ride left the park. 

 

 

While I admit that no flat ride was directly replaced by a roller coaster, I’ve often heard it said that in many cases, roller coasters indirectly replaced flat rides in terms of things like staffing and maintenance bills. By that, I mean that when a new roller coaster has been built, the park have had to sacrifice a flat ride to get it built.

 

I also wasn’t talking exclusively about flat rides either. For instance, I’ve heard many say that removing The Flume in favour of Wicker Man was a terrible move, but I think that seeing The Flume go was a price worth paying to get Wicker Man even if it did mean that the park had one less non-coaster.

[Mark9]

Ah okay, I just read it as a flat ride thing. It's still a hard disagree for me here though and I think Towers are really stuck now. I'd only really consider Spinball &  Rita to be a plus in the last twenty years, as you say Wicker Man replaced Flume (wicker with lower capacity), Thirteen replaced Corkscrew and Smiler replaced Black Hole. 

 

So we've actually lost a lot of capacity to get these coasters in, hence why we see situations like last year where everything is either broken or at 80 minutes plus wait times. Hence why all this talk about maintenance bills is a bit of a red herring, the maintenance at the park has been awful over the last two years.

 

Crazily, I really really think Towers need to do what Chessington are doing (and what Thorpe did) and plussing the support ride line up to help the rollercoasters and to spread the demand. 

[MattyB]

1 hour ago, Mark9 said:

 

 

Crazily, I really really think Towers need to do what Chessington are doing (and what Thorpe did) and plussing the support ride line up to help the rollercoasters and to spread the demand. 

Agree with this.  Last time I went to the Towers was Wickerman's opening year.  I found that unless your into coasters or have young children there is not that much to do there.  Hex, Duel and the Rapids are the only other major non-coaster attractions I can think of that appeal to a wide audience. I think they should really be aiming to be the Disney park of the UK I.e. making attractions that appeal to everyone.  They somehow seem to be stuck in a coaster war with their other coaster based property (Thorpe).  Really surprised they haven't gone for installing something along the lines of Toy Story Mania/ Maus au Chocolat.  Also think a Soarin over the UK type attraction would work really well there...

[Benin]

The park line up has been decimated over the years to the detriment of the overall experience. 

 

Replacing everything with coasters (or poorly integrated Midway experiences) has limited what is available to guests on the day.

 

Flume gone means Rapids and Galleons get everyone wanting a water ride for example. So they get stupid queues in the summer (they did anyway, but at least between the 2 main ones there was a split).

 

The park cutting costs since Smiler crashing has I think exacerbated this situation further, especially when half of the flat rides are older than most on these and other forums.

 

Also limited by this nonsense marketing USP thing. Every new ride is an addition and will benefit the park goer. It doesn't have to be a world's first or biggest thing of that type. It's just another option for riders.

 

That the next project also appears to be a coaster is just, meh. Could've gone for a big family dark ride similar to Symbolica.

 

That they had to hire in some fairground rides shows that SOMEONE knows the issue, but they can't seem to be able to convince whoever makes those decisions to get permanent additions instead.

[MattyB]

45 minutes ago, Benin said:

 

Also limited by this nonsense marketing USP thing. Every new ride is an addition and will benefit the park goer. It doesn't have to be a world's first or biggest thing of that type. It's just another option for riders.

 

That the next project also appears to be a coaster is just, meh. Could've gone for a big family dark ride similar to Symbolica.

 

That they had to hire in some fairground rides shows that SOMEONE knows the issue, but they can't seem to be able to convince whoever makes those decisions to get permanent additions instead.

Totally agree with this.  They are narrowing their product so much by having this USP issue that doesn't really make much of a difference (IMO).  I was thinking the other day, with today's current Merlin management, would a rid like Nemesis even get built?  It has no USP that I can think of (it wasn't a worlds first, maybe a European first?) I think the UK park industry has fallen so far behind everywhere else it is embarrassing.  At one point, the Tussaud's parks were up there and comparable to the likes of Disney/Universal.  

[Mark9]

Nemesis was sold on it being Europes first inverted coaster but their aim was to big it make the Jurassic Park of 1994. They aimed high and I think they delivered on every level. But back then this was a balanced theme park with a large array of rides for a large age range. It's not balanced anymore. They've fallen into a similar trap as Disney where everything has to be the next big thing, No warm up act, only the main event. 

 

I personally did not enjoy my trips last year. Massive queues, everything broken down. every area looking tired and run down. Chessington and Thorpe, for my money, are far better right now. 

[MattyB]

30 minutes ago, Mark9 said:

Nemesis was sold on it being Europes first inverted coaster but their aim was to big it make the Jurassic Park of 1994. They aimed high and I think they delivered on every level. But back then this was a balanced theme park with a large array of rides for a large age range. It's not balanced anymore. They've fallen into a similar trap as Disney where everything has to be the next big thing, No warm up act, only the main event. 

 

I personally did not enjoy my trips last year. Massive queues, everything broken down. every area looking tired and run down. Chessington and Thorpe, for my money, are far better right now. 

Agree with all your points there.  I couldn't remember whether Nemesis was marketed as a European first, but your right, they delivered on every level with that ride.  

[coasterverse]

Alton Towers is a shadow of its former self currently in my opinion. It was my first major theme park and therefore will always hold a special place in my heart, but the Merlin execs need to be held accountable. They just really don't know how to get the balance right with that park currently.

 

Right now, you've got the big coasters and the little rides in Cbeebies land that are clearly their biggest hitters - but that then leaves a massive gap inbetween for flat rides and other generic rides that have a wider appeal. There's currently very few rides for families at the park - it's worthwhile to visit if you're a family with little kids to explore Cbeebies land (that they are obviously still investing lots of money into, definitely quite the cash cow for the park), but then there's nothing for families visiting until their kids are big enough to ride the big coasters.

 

Wicker Man was a step in the right direction with their height restriction of 1.2m opposed to the 1.4m on the other big coasters, but was it worthwhile removing The Flume - an attraction with a much bigger throughput and much wider family appeal - for it?

 

Wicker Man is currently my #1 coaster so for selfish reasons my answer would be yes, but on a wider scope, I'd probably say no. Hex, Duel (TCaAM) and the Rapids (perhaps even Gangsta Granny, although I probably just enjoy that as an enthusiast - not sure if those grown out of Cbeebies Land but not big enough for the big coasters would agree as it might be too childish for them still, it's definitely got a Cbeebies-esque vibe to it!) are literally the only filler attractions at the minute.

 

Hopefully with Project Horizon will come new flat rides and variety too, but I wonder how viable that actually is.

[Benin]

14 hours ago, coasterverse said:

Hopefully with Project Horizon will come new flat rides and variety too, but I wonder how viable that actually is.

 

Think looking at those plans you'll be disappointed there.

 

If I think back to my first ever visit and its telling how much of the balance has been lost. FV had 3 support rides (Air was being built) and now just Blade and maybe Sub-Terra if it reopens.

 

Flume gone for Wickerman. Heave Ho about the only other change down that end of the park. 

 

Ug Land had 2 support rides. Now just 2 coasters, 1 of which is always hideously busy and was poorly implemented anyway.

 

Toyland Tours turned into an uncharged attraction. Nah mate.

 

X-Sector had 2 support rides plus Black Hole. Arguably that Smiler is an improvement on that. But again, Submission and now Enterprise dead.

 

CBeebies is an interesting one, but not really as timeless as the Farm/Storybook. We do also have Spinball but again is usually too stupidly busy to bother with.

 

I think stagnant is the best term for the UK park scene. And not helped when you look on the continent and see the differences in development in those 20 years.

[Matt 236]

I think one of the issues with Towers is definitely its sufficient lack of support/additional attractions. 
 

As main rides go, the park is fine and holds what is arguably one of the best coaster collections of any European park. 
 

However, what does Towers really have once you deduct the big 6/7 coasters? A couple of mid-scale family coasters, 2 substantial dark rides and two water rides. Oh and Beeb land. 
 

When you look at most notable European parks, they are either full of substantial attractions. Be it the numerous support/hidden wonders in Europa, the support rides at Phantasia or the fairy tale forest of Efteling. Yes. 
 

Even Thorpe & Chessington are theoretically better in this position given one has a zoo and the other has numerous (ageing) flat rides. 
 

Towers needs something to fill in these voids, but I’m not holding my breath. 

[Trooper Looper]

I'm really disappointed with The Curse at Alton Manor (I can already hear the horde chasing after me), let me explain myself. Is it a bad quality experience? Good lord no, the area and the queue is fantastic, and the characters that walk around are hilarious!! It has good lighting and some nice effects. I just think it's tone is very unnecessarily dark and grim, especially for being marketed as a family attraction.

 

 

Personally I can only see people aged 12 and above really enjoying this ride and most below that age being more scared than actually having fun. They removed most of my favourite elements from duel/HH for either screens or dolls on sticks, which was a bad move Personally and removes a lot of the rides character. Most of the praise so far has came from mostly die hard UK enthusiats and nearly no reviews from the GP so far as it's only been open for one weekend, which is pretty ideal for most families to visit the park.

 

Let the hype die down and see if the attraction can still stand on its own legs in terms of what it's target audience thinks of it, and ignoring the Easter eggs, since most of the praise so far has came from nods to past attractions in the ride. Sure the ride can be scary, but I think it needs some good humour to go with it (but good lord is the story way too dark and serious, and that's coming from me, a ghost train lover.) The park already has enough gritty themes and wacky cuddly themes, I think this could've been the chance to refurb this ride as a nice balance of both, offering something for everyone of all ages.

[Benin]

My niece-in-law is 10 and I can tell you she would love how dark and creepy Alty Mans is.

 

Her younger sibling wouldn't.

 

Some kids will love it, others won't. Much like many theme park attractions.

 

It's clearly not a ride designed with a lot of humour in mind. Don't think that's necessarily a problem these days (massive difference in terms of expectations in theme parks these days after all compared to 30 years ago) as a lot of the humour in HH (lol what humour in Duel), seems to be overplayed as to how much there actually was. Nostalgia and the way it got spoken about in awed reverence often skews perception, especially to those who never rode it (see also original Bubbleworks).

 

Sure for every parent moaning that it's "too scary" there'll be plenty of kids who love it. And if parents are that concerned there's plenty of evidence available for them to be VERY aware it's a darker themed ride.

[Mark9]

I dunno, I just don't think Alty Mans is going to catch on.