OlivusPrime

You're going to need a taller watchtower to see past the abomination in front of X...

This won't be so much to do with the designers, and more to do with the company/park's marketing strategy which traditionally flip flops all over the place failing to see the clear picture, while succumbing to pressures of shareholders who don't care one bit about the actual guest experience on offer. They just want quick short term solutions, so sticking an IP on an existing attraction it is.
 
Merlin's (failing) marketing strategies lead all aspects of the theme parks development. In fact Merlin Magic Making are just as much a research and marketing division as they are attracion designers.
 
Good marketing is important and would tell you that a hardcore American TV show brand slapped on to the park's only big family rollercoaster isn't the way forward. Superficial marketing gets you I'm A Celebrity, VR hurredly designed into Derren Brown's Ghost Train at the cost of the whole concept working as intended, the flip flopping Thorpe Park brand and the park becoming filled with grey, drab depressing themes.

You underestimate Merlin

I’ve really given up caring about Thorpe Park. Recent development history means that I have no optimism that Merlin will create something really special.
 
Is there even a development plan at the moment? It feels like every development completely combats what the last one tried to do.
 
“Thrill Capital” marketing results in the family ride Storm Surge.
 
“Island Like No Other” marketing results in a gory horror overlay of a popular family roller coaster. 
 
Are all of Merlin’s ‘magic makers’ really just headless chickens? Why does a flash in the pan idea seem to override any sustainable long term development? Do they not have a clear vision of what they want the park to look and feel like 10 years from now? It’s the most frustrating feeling when the park you’ve grown up loving and feel that’s got so much potential doesn’t have a clear direction - or any direction at all. 
 
Can someone swap home parks with me please?
 
 
 

What an absolutely mental decision.
I would have loved to have seen that meeting where they concluded the best way to make the park more family orientated was to retheme a family coaster that can't have single riders to the walking dead. 
All this will result in is ruining guest satisfaction as they hype up a walking dead coaster that can't possibly fulfill the media hype while at the same time reducing the line up for younger guests. 
 
It's just constant short sighted decisions resulting in higher running costs which when accompanied by the reduction in spending on the theme park division can only end badly.

This will sound cynical but this just looks like the standard cheap rehashing of old attractions, masked by sticking a trendy IP on the door, that we've come to expect from Merlin. I agree with everyone who's surprised how little the theme fits the tame coaster.
 
The cheap-to-make drab and depressing themes around Thorpe Park are so tired and overdone now. They always were in my opinion. Young adults want big energy and colour too! X was alright for that after the clubby tart up and suited the age bracket better, but still only the best of what they could do on a too-small budget. And if you DO want horror and edge, there are 100 ways to do it without just making dirty warehouse buildings with junk decorating the paths.
 
They'd be better off demolishing X and saving that enormous space for something not totally restricted by the poor existing coaster inside. But 'why do that when you can save £££s stick a stack of old tyres, barbed wire and a standard preshow, and call it new?'

Sounds like a big corporate pat-on-the-back circle-jerk to me, anyone who has a grasp on decent storytelling or technological integration wouldn't even nominate DBGT for such an award.

To be honest, after visiting the park for the first time in a while a few weeks back, I can't identify this new Island theme, and I'm the kind of person who usually pays a lot of attention to audio. That being said, I didn't spend too much time in the flat ride area of Lost City or the central part of the Jungle, which apparently are the areas that implement it most.
 
If anything this new audio should be kept as area music, replacing tracks that are so identifiable with certain rides and have been for so long is a bad idea.

It doesn’t really make a difference to be honest.... 
 
Undoubtedly, Saw Alive May be popular over fright nights (aren’t all the mazes?), but simply plopping a ‘Jig’ over the front of ‘Saw’ won’t add anything to its queues. They are long enough anyway.
 
Pretty sure that Saw VII came out after the Ride’s opening. Were there people demanding the change of the ride back then? 
 
Theres not much they can change though- in terms of any films, the first is clearly the most ‘iconic’ and they’re going to use imagery from that. Does Jigsaw have the puppet? Check. So does Thorpe (albeit a more bedraggled and shat-on version). Are there swinging hammers and various torture devices in that movie? Probably. The ride already has them. I think you get my gist. 
 
I can can just imagine the uproar from enthusiasts if Thorpe had the audacity to scribble ‘Jig’ onto all the Saw branding but overall, not changing much about the ride at all. ‘Jigsaw’ is part of the ‘Saw’ franchise anyway, and those in the GP who are not as familiar with the new film may wonder why ‘The Saw one’ has become ‘Puzzle: the ride’. 

This doesn't justify the terrible family lineup though if X leaves for a tacky Walking Dead re-theme.
 
This is much, much, easier on paper than to actually do.
Especially if that person has overbearing anxiety.
 
 

Merlin have decimated the UK theme park industry and ignoring advice from advisors will continue to starve the parks of the investment they need despite the huge drop off across their estates. 
 
Put your money into Blackpool, Paultons, Drayton. We need a competitive industry, not the one Merlin have trashed.

Sounds like a big corporate pat-on-the-back circle-jerk to me, anyone who has a grasp on decent storytelling or technological integration wouldn't even nominate DBGT for such an award.

The Loggers rumour is the best one.  So the rumour goes that if Thorpe didn't get a contract with a company for a couple of Fright Nights mazes (and potentially a short term, year-round maze), they were going to instead spend the money on sorting out Loggers Leap?  Even though they will be completely separate budgets and departments, and Loggers would require significantly more money than a contract with AMC...  lol
 
Slammer removal will happen sooner or later.  If it doesn't happen this winter, I'm sure there will be a rumour amongst staff next year it's being removed next winter.
 
X closure / retheme is something which has been doing the rounds very recently.  Though it seems to crop up most seasons, so who knows..
 
A permanent Walking Dead maze makes sense in many ways.  It is a huge brand, and other parks that have had the IP have always had a permanent attraction shortly after signing the contract, so it could even be something that AMC require to get on board.  Yeah, there's questions of whether scare attractions work in theme parks outside of Halloween (ultimately, Saw Alive was declining in popularity, even though the decision to close it was based on costs), but it'd likely be popular in the short term.
 
A coaster getting the VR treatment will probably be thrown around for a couple more years.  It's an easy way to get a new attraction, which is obviously something Merlin love.  I reckon it's something which has been thought about, but hopefully it's a dead idea now.
 
So yeah, always take rumours from staff with a HUGE pinch of salt of course.  The Loggers rumour is hilariously off the mark that it makes me take any of the above with a bucket load though, sorry.

I really hope Merlin don’t ruin the Swarm with VR like they did with Air.
 
I must be one of few who actually really liked Sub Terra as an experience, when it wasn’t broken!
 
What I’d like to see for 2018 in order of priority:
1. Loggers Leap to reopen or even just plans for Old Town redevelopment.
2. New entrance building & plaza with much faster security, please! (Annual Pass priority lane perhaps?)
3. The grime washed off Colossus. I don’t expect anything like Europa Park but at least pretend you actually care about your rides Merlin.
4. Storm Surge demolished. It’s painfully slow, pisses more water than a sieve and blocks the view of X.
 
That’s my wish list, If one of these things happens I’d be happy but sadly I won’t hold my breath about any improvements yet.
 
Also, don't waste any more investment on DBGT for a third year, just focus on new attractions and the park in 2018.

Should've worded that a little better because what I meant by feedback-wise wasn't the popularity of the attraction, but the general opinion and impressions from the public, because lets be honest, none of those attractions mentioned have had an overwhelming positive response since they debuted:

• Sub-Terra was awful when it opened and after some adjustments still provided mixed opinion.
• Saw Alive might look all pretty but has remained unchanged and doesn't deliver the scares or promise of being the "world's most extreme live-action horror maze".
• I'm a Celeb is identical to Saw Alive - looks pretty inside but that's as far as it goes. The rest is abysmal.
• Derren Brown's Ghost Train is the most overhyped and unreliable white elephant in the park's history, operated appallingly during it's opening year and still has an endless stream of cost and reliability issues today.

The fact most, if not all the park's flat rides still draw big queues and positive opinion with guests all these years later should tell the park something. Not only would a newer flat/thrill ride be more sustainable in the long-term, but I'm certain feedback would be a lot higher for it. For instance, I can picture the perfect replacement for Slammer which would undoubtedly make it the best flat ride in the park if built, but it's sadly never going to happen, which is why I find it frustrating the priority for a few years now has been to ensure any new attraction is a world first, have an IP and be very marketable. Forget building a superb killer thrill ride, just as long as whatever comes along is marketable, that's all that matters now.

There was a phase 1?

FINALLY got to ride Derren Brown  ride Ghost Train today, having read and heard very little since its original construction. Overall it unfortunately seemed like a missed opportunity, but my take-aways were:
Even if it's a slow start to the ride, the "illusion" angle of the preshow is infinitely more interesting than the generic horror-fest that the rest of the ride becomes. Brown picking up one of the trains was also the only "how did they do that?" moment of the ride besides the carriage, proving that sometimes the simplest effects and tricks can be as involving as bombastic action, or more so. Interior theming was up to a decent standard. The delivery of information was too delayed. Entering a train station to witness Brown's illusion is fine, as is seeing a suspended Victorian carriage following this, but why are we suddenly in an Underground carriage? And now that I've put on the headset (again, why?), who are "Sub Core", and what do they have to do with anything that has preceded this? All of this is eventually answered but the plot feels irritatingly vague and meandering in the meantime, and not for tension-building reasons. As I previously mentioned, the "horror" didn't work for me at all. There wasn't any subtlety to its use - the only point at which my imagination could have played with my expectations was when the smoke/demons/whatever fill the tunnel, and even then you feel so distant from it thanks to the relatively bright lighting in the room and the actors taking the foreground. I don't feel I need to go into why cartoon demons walking up and down the carriage and a little girl screaming at you lack subtlety, especially when the carriage is so starkly lit in the former case, and the less said about that bonkers, "how do we end this?!" finale the better... The ride gives us another example of VR being used as far too vital a technological component than should be relied upon in a ride. A broken effect means you risk shattering the illusion, broken VR means you've lost the ride. On the second section of my first ride I had to keep wiggling the cable to get (some) audio, and on my second ride I got to experience a set where I had to look away to hear the character and one which didn't stay on my head and kept resetting to the neutral position. VR is an interesting technology, but don't implement it into theme parks until you can guarantee that it won't be a constant problem. The gift shop trick was neat, it reminded me of some kind of Twilight Zone-esque "something's not right" moment the first time, but on repeat rides it loses its novelty.  On the whole, it's less an attraction that I'd alter to correct, and more one that I'd start from scratch. It's very clear that someone decided Brown's approach to an attraction might be too conservative and that the target audience for the park expect obnoxious scares, and hastily retooled an illusion concept into a bizarre attempt at horror. That being said, it isn't horrendous - a couple of neat illusions, some good theming inside, one or two surprises - but it's unfortunate that so much hype and expenditure went into something that turned out so confused.

That's ok I wasn't referencing your post
 
"it is very easy to tell his dislike for Merlin. "
 
Again why is dislike for Merlin an "agenda"? Why are we required to like a place we're paying to visit if we don't like the product? It's very reasonable to not visit (or at least go in with low expectations), considering the consistent poor quality and disappointments of many projects in the past, and the product Merlin tends to offer. Optimism is fine, but saying others have an agenda is jumping the gun. The problem with Merlin is that there is very little alternative for big theme parks and themed rides in the UK, so you can't just choose to visit somewhere else like you would with any other product. That's more reason to be vocal.

Yeah there may be some people with a closed-minded agenda, unfortunately, if they're constantly criticising with no justification behind what they say. But I mean more in general .

Zufari being awful is no surpise. The cave’s always been a missed oppurtunity but it’s certainly worsened since. If I remember rightly the pumps for all the water effects are grossly inadequate for the pressure they’re under (no doubt a little cheap as well!)
 
As for the lack of animals, that was always going to happen with a rise of this nature, the real problem is the ride’s far too short. There’s only two proper paddocks, so if you get a bit of bad luck and the animals are off somewhere else, there’s not really any other sections to make up for it. Not building down into Wanyama was their biggest mistake... the ride’s a fraction of the size it could be! 
 
I appreciate what you say about it being a sad place to visit now; I quite agree. I live within half an hour of the park yet haven’t been for years. I used to get really frustrated remembering how it used to be, or seeing how easily things could be so much better, so I just stopped in the end. If you’re not enjoying yourself there I suggest you do the same.  

Could be worse - you could've spent £33m on the real thing.

FINALLY got to ride Derren Brown  ride Ghost Train today, having read and heard very little since its original construction. Overall it unfortunately seemed like a missed opportunity, but my take-aways were:
Even if it's a slow start to the ride, the "illusion" angle of the preshow is infinitely more interesting than the generic horror-fest that the rest of the ride becomes. Brown picking up one of the trains was also the only "how did they do that?" moment of the ride besides the carriage, proving that sometimes the simplest effects and tricks can be as involving as bombastic action, or more so. Interior theming was up to a decent standard. The delivery of information was too delayed. Entering a train station to witness Brown's illusion is fine, as is seeing a suspended Victorian carriage following this, but why are we suddenly in an Underground carriage? And now that I've put on the headset (again, why?), who are "Sub Core", and what do they have to do with anything that has preceded this? All of this is eventually answered but the plot feels irritatingly vague and meandering in the meantime, and not for tension-building reasons. As I previously mentioned, the "horror" didn't work for me at all. There wasn't any subtlety to its use - the only point at which my imagination could have played with my expectations was when the smoke/demons/whatever fill the tunnel, and even then you feel so distant from it thanks to the relatively bright lighting in the room and the actors taking the foreground. I don't feel I need to go into why cartoon demons walking up and down the carriage and a little girl screaming at you lack subtlety, especially when the carriage is so starkly lit in the former case, and the less said about that bonkers, "how do we end this?!" finale the better... The ride gives us another example of VR being used as far too vital a technological component than should be relied upon in a ride. A broken effect means you risk shattering the illusion, broken VR means you've lost the ride. On the second section of my first ride I had to keep wiggling the cable to get (some) audio, and on my second ride I got to experience a set where I had to look away to hear the character and one which didn't stay on my head and kept resetting to the neutral position. VR is an interesting technology, but don't implement it into theme parks until you can guarantee that it won't be a constant problem. The gift shop trick was neat, it reminded me of some kind of Twilight Zone-esque "something's not right" moment the first time, but on repeat rides it loses its novelty.  On the whole, it's less an attraction that I'd alter to correct, and more one that I'd start from scratch. It's very clear that someone decided Brown's approach to an attraction might be too conservative and that the target audience for the park expect obnoxious scares, and hastily retooled an illusion concept into a bizarre attempt at horror. That being said, it isn't horrendous - a couple of neat illusions, some good theming inside, one or two surprises - but it's unfortunate that so much hype and expenditure went into something that turned out so confused.

FINALLY got to ride Derren Brown  ride Ghost Train today, having read and heard very little since its original construction. Overall it unfortunately seemed like a missed opportunity, but my take-aways were:
Even if it's a slow start to the ride, the "illusion" angle of the preshow is infinitely more interesting than the generic horror-fest that the rest of the ride becomes. Brown picking up one of the trains was also the only "how did they do that?" moment of the ride besides the carriage, proving that sometimes the simplest effects and tricks can be as involving as bombastic action, or more so. Interior theming was up to a decent standard. The delivery of information was too delayed. Entering a train station to witness Brown's illusion is fine, as is seeing a suspended Victorian carriage following this, but why are we suddenly in an Underground carriage? And now that I've put on the headset (again, why?), who are "Sub Core", and what do they have to do with anything that has preceded this? All of this is eventually answered but the plot feels irritatingly vague and meandering in the meantime, and not for tension-building reasons. As I previously mentioned, the "horror" didn't work for me at all. There wasn't any subtlety to its use - the only point at which my imagination could have played with my expectations was when the smoke/demons/whatever fill the tunnel, and even then you feel so distant from it thanks to the relatively bright lighting in the room and the actors taking the foreground. I don't feel I need to go into why cartoon demons walking up and down the carriage and a little girl screaming at you lack subtlety, especially when the carriage is so starkly lit in the former case, and the less said about that bonkers, "how do we end this?!" finale the better... The ride gives us another example of VR being used as far too vital a technological component than should be relied upon in a ride. A broken effect means you risk shattering the illusion, broken VR means you've lost the ride. On the second section of my first ride I had to keep wiggling the cable to get (some) audio, and on my second ride I got to experience a set where I had to look away to hear the character and one which didn't stay on my head and kept resetting to the neutral position. VR is an interesting technology, but don't implement it into theme parks until you can guarantee that it won't be a constant problem. The gift shop trick was neat, it reminded me of some kind of Twilight Zone-esque "something's not right" moment the first time, but on repeat rides it loses its novelty.  On the whole, it's less an attraction that I'd alter to correct, and more one that I'd start from scratch. It's very clear that someone decided Brown's approach to an attraction might be too conservative and that the target audience for the park expect obnoxious scares, and hastily retooled an illusion concept into a bizarre attempt at horror. That being said, it isn't horrendous - a couple of neat illusions, some good theming inside, one or two surprises - but it's unfortunate that so much hype and expenditure went into something that turned out so confused.

FINALLY got to ride Derren Brown  ride Ghost Train today, having read and heard very little since its original construction. Overall it unfortunately seemed like a missed opportunity, but my take-aways were:
Even if it's a slow start to the ride, the "illusion" angle of the preshow is infinitely more interesting than the generic horror-fest that the rest of the ride becomes. Brown picking up one of the trains was also the only "how did they do that?" moment of the ride besides the carriage, proving that sometimes the simplest effects and tricks can be as involving as bombastic action, or more so. Interior theming was up to a decent standard. The delivery of information was too delayed. Entering a train station to witness Brown's illusion is fine, as is seeing a suspended Victorian carriage following this, but why are we suddenly in an Underground carriage? And now that I've put on the headset (again, why?), who are "Sub Core", and what do they have to do with anything that has preceded this? All of this is eventually answered but the plot feels irritatingly vague and meandering in the meantime, and not for tension-building reasons. As I previously mentioned, the "horror" didn't work for me at all. There wasn't any subtlety to its use - the only point at which my imagination could have played with my expectations was when the smoke/demons/whatever fill the tunnel, and even then you feel so distant from it thanks to the relatively bright lighting in the room and the actors taking the foreground. I don't feel I need to go into why cartoon demons walking up and down the carriage and a little girl screaming at you lack subtlety, especially when the carriage is so starkly lit in the former case, and the less said about that bonkers, "how do we end this?!" finale the better... The ride gives us another example of VR being used as far too vital a technological component than should be relied upon in a ride. A broken effect means you risk shattering the illusion, broken VR means you've lost the ride. On the second section of my first ride I had to keep wiggling the cable to get (some) audio, and on my second ride I got to experience a set where I had to look away to hear the character and one which didn't stay on my head and kept resetting to the neutral position. VR is an interesting technology, but don't implement it into theme parks until you can guarantee that it won't be a constant problem. The gift shop trick was neat, it reminded me of some kind of Twilight Zone-esque "something's not right" moment the first time, but on repeat rides it loses its novelty.  On the whole, it's less an attraction that I'd alter to correct, and more one that I'd start from scratch. It's very clear that someone decided Brown's approach to an attraction might be too conservative and that the target audience for the park expect obnoxious scares, and hastily retooled an illusion concept into a bizarre attempt at horror. That being said, it isn't horrendous - a couple of neat illusions, some good theming inside, one or two surprises - but it's unfortunate that so much hype and expenditure went into something that turned out so confused.

High winds have always caused abit of an issue at thrope - it probably don’t help how exposed the park is with the lake all around it.
 
Im around 15 min drive from the park and fairly high up and thought it was extremely windy today so I’m not too surprised there were issues today - that said you should be now eligible for a free ticket on their bad weather guarantee.