Walibi Holland

[Matt 236]

I’ll have to give this one a go in the near future, but Zadra is looking most likely to be RMC number two for me.

 

The thing I love about Steel Vengeance is the incredible length and relentless the ride takes it’s layout. Whether that be it’s vertices drop, tight inversions, ejector and floater airtime and tight corners. It’s location and styling complement that.

 

Regardless of Untamed being better or worse, it’s great to see Europe has another RMac. Just need the U.K. to get one now really.

[Mark9]

15 hours ago, JoshC. said:

Let's talk Untamed then.

 

It's really bloody good fun. It's glass smooth, has loads of really good airtime, some quite floaty, some really aggressive, and the inversions are great. The second half in particular is full on and relentless. It's truly fantastic and I reckon anyone who goes on it will enjoy it, even if that type of ride isn't your thing.

 

What it did leave me wondering though, is: what is all the fuss about RMC? Yes, Untamed is fantastic, but this didn't feel like anything particularly groundbreaking? If you'd commissioned, say, Mack or Intamin to do this exactly same layout on a steel coaster, it'd feel exactly the same. There's nothing I saw our felt that made me think "wow, RMC are special" like half the enthusiast community seems to think. Obviously it's great they convert rubbish woodies to amazing rides, but that's it.

 

So yeah, Untamed is fab. I love it. And I'm looking forward to trying similar rides. But it hasn't made me think 'RMC are gods' or anything crazy.

I find this review fascinating. It's almost like the company was hyped up to such a degree for you that no matter what Untamed did, you were never going to get the praise or where the love comes from. It's even more intriguing that you love the ride but don't see why RMC are so universally loved. 

 

From where I stand, I admire their ingenuity. I don't even want to think about the challenges of turning old woodies into brand new rides and I think they've done an excellent job worldwide. Changing a boring, meandering wooden coaster like Mean Streak into one of the most loved rollercoasters is no small feat. The skill involved is beyond just building a new ride. I look forward to your Zadra and Wildfire reviews.

[Marhelorpe]

Whether or not the company do an excellent job at converting existing wooden coasters into much more enjoyable and thrilling ones is almost meaningless to the consumer. All the consumer cares about at the end of the day is whether or not the ride itself is actually any damn good. Sure, it is impressive statistically what they do as a company and Untamed here looks pretty bloomin’ great, but how does it ride is the bigger question in all this.

 

And after my experience on Wildfire not long ago, I can tell you right now that to me, RMC are like the Derren Brown’s Ghost Train of roller coasters - sounds amazing, looks amazing, lots of hype, but very questionable execution in many areas, the least of that being the trains/restraint design.

 

Wildfire was sold to me as the “2nd best RMC in the world” before riding and I cannot name another ride which has left me feeling so underwhelmed before after riding it. It had horrific pacing issues, the restraints are uncomfortable on your shins especially and the train’s design has a lot to be desired. So I was left there scratching my head thinking “what’s all the fuss about with these coasters?”, which is why I completely get where JoshC is coming from in this.

 

Broaden your views outside of Steel Vengeance and you’ll see this company has some fundamental flaws in their coasters in my view.

 

I’ll be giving Untamed a go very soon, hoping this is better than my last experience of an RMC, as the layout looks a lot more interesting and the restraints look more giving (thank Christ). Not expecting to be blown away by this ride however, just pleased at the very least.

[JoshuaA]

1 hour ago, Marhelorpe said:

Broaden your views outside of Steel Vengeance and you’ll see this company has some fundamental flaws in their coasters in my view.

Intamin, Mack, and B&M have all made rides with flaws.

Intamin's early restraint system was god awful, Mack built jerky rides such as Poseidon or Eurosat, B&M built Dragons Khan and recently implemented restraints that heavily restrict you from feeling airtime which is arguably worse than RMC's.

Remember too that Wildfire was made before the 2nd gen trains came to fruition. The trains have slightly changed and one RMC doesn't reflect the ENTIRE company, Iron Rattler and New Texas Giant have Gerstlauer trains anyway and everything 2018 and onwards will probably ride different

 

I think the key to RMC being so popular is due to the forceful and smooth rides they usually give. They typically have a lot of airtime and unique and fun elements to boot. Sure the restraints can be a little uncomfy for people on the taller side but hopefully the company will adjust the restraints as they go along.

I would broaden my views outside of Steel Vengeance but outside of that ride I see Goliath and New Texas Giant, rides that are brilliant in their own right. 

 

 

[Mark9]

8 hours ago, Marhelorpe said:

Whether or not the company do an excellent job at converting existing wooden coasters into much more enjoyable and thrilling ones is almost meaningless to the consumer. All the consumer cares about at the end of the day is whether or not the ride itself is actually any damn good. Sure, it is impressive statistically what they do as a company and Untamed here looks pretty bloomin’ great, but how does it ride is the bigger question in all this.

 

And after my experience on Wildfire not long ago, I can tell you right now that to me, RMC are like the Derren Brown’s Ghost Train of roller coasters - sounds amazing, looks amazing, lots of hype, but very questionable execution in many areas, the least of that being the trains/restraint design.

 

Wildfire was sold to me as the “2nd best RMC in the world” before riding and I cannot name another ride which has left me feeling so underwhelmed before after riding it. It had horrific pacing issues, the restraints are uncomfortable on your shins especially and the train’s design has a lot to be desired. So I was left there scratching my head thinking “what’s all the fuss about with these coasters?”, which is why I completely get where JoshC is coming from in this.

 

Broaden your views outside of Steel Vengeance and you’ll see this company has some fundamental flaws in their coasters in my view.

 

I’ll be giving Untamed a go very soon, hoping this is better than my last experience of an RMC, as the layout looks a lot more interesting and the restraints look more giving (thank Christ). Not expecting to be blown away by this ride however, just pleased at the very least.

 

I've ridden Goliath at Six Flags Great America as well, I use Steel Vengeance as the example because that is the one most people will talk about for years to come. 

 

You need to make a bit of a distinction frankly, I'm sorry you don't like them. The majority of people do like them. You're right, they don't just admire the technical genius of converting old wooden, the 'consumers' as you put it just bloody enjoy them. I just thought that because I'm on a forum that says they like rollercoasters, that I might be able to say how much I enjoy the sheer technical brilliance  of changing a ride layout completely and delivering new experiences as opposed to talking to a work colleague and saying I like the big drops and upside down bits. I thought we were a bit beyond that.

 

Also, please don't patronise me with 'broaden your views.' We're having an adult conversation, not trying to one up each other.

 

[JoshC.]

23 hours ago, Mark9 said:

I find this review fascinating. It's almost like the company was hyped up to such a degree for you that no matter what Untamed did, you were never going to get the praise or where the love comes from. It's even more intriguing that you love the ride but don't see why RMC are so universally loved. 

That potentially might be it in fairness.

 

I've always been unsure on RMCs and whether I'd actually enjoy them. Some of their unique elements look simply unenjoyable to me. I've warmed to the idea more recently and it's hard to go 'I don't think I'd enjoy this manufacturer's rides when they're so universally praised'. So it's been a weird one in that context I guess.

 

The thing is for the past 2-3 years in particular, I've seen RMC praised as this company that have revolutionised the coaster industry by creating world class rides and creating experiences that no other manufacturer could dream of delivering. That wasn't to do with their ability to convert rides or anything, I had seen time and time again that if you just go up to an RMC and ride it without knowing it's history (if it's a conversion), you will be blown away and get a ride which is completely out of this world.

 

I didn't get that with Untamed. I got a very good ride, but it's nothing that changes the industry to me. It sounds crazy saying Untamed is 'just very good', but when I had seen for years that RMC creates rides that go beyond 'just very good', it's left me questioning where the hype is? Based off my experience, RMC just create good rides: that's great, but nowhere near the level of hype I've heard about it.

 

Of course, one ride isn't enough to build a full opinion. And maybe Untamed isn't the best example of what RMC do when people say they've revolutionised the industry. But equally, I can only go on what I've done.

 

23 hours ago, Mark9 said:

From where I stand, I admire their ingenuity. I don't even want to think about the challenges of turning old woodies into brand new rides and I think they've done an excellent job worldwide. Changing a boring, meandering wooden coaster like Mean Streak into one of the most loved rollercoasters is no small feat. The skill involved is beyond just building a new ride. I look forward to your Zadra and Wildfire reviews.

Very good point, and something which is easy to lose sight of when these have become much more common. And yes, from this point of view, they have really revolutionised the industry, they've created something special, and they're just damn good at making good rides. But from the context of those rides themselves being industry-changers in their own right, I'm less convinced. 

 

[Martin Doyle]

The reason why I enjoy the work of RMC as much as I do having ridden Steel Vengeance and Wildfire is because to me as a coaster experience they tick all the boxes. Great drops,great airtime,great inversions,relentless pacing (in Steel Vengeances case) and pretty good variety. I CAN see to a degree why bigger riders don’t enjoy them as much given the restraints, however for me personally the restraints are a none issue and as a result I can enjoy their coasters to the max and it’s no coincidence to me that my top two coasters are both RMC.

 

Do I think the company gets too much hype?? Yes maybe they do and I do believe people should ride one BEFORE saying “They are absolutely brilliant!! Thorpe Park should get one”. However and as contradictory to that statement as this sound, there is no smoke without fire and the reason RMC are so well talked about is because of the vast majority who have ridden their coasters and love them to the point of being their favourite coasters.

 

As far as the “Converting rubbish coasters into good coasters means nothing to the consumer” goes, well actually it does. A lot of the Cedar Point fanbase for example really do love the fact that they turned arguably the worst coaster in the world (apparently. I can’t say anything because I never rode the original mean streak) into what will now most likely go down as the greatest coaster of all time. That to them and a good few members of the community is not a feat to be sniffed at.

[Benin]

Can I blame TPR? I blame TPR...

 

Think for us Europeans we suffer from being late to the party and the more interesting ones being built in the States, where they're often allowed to go more mental with layouts than we are...

 

Still not ridden one, I've always disliked the aesthetics of them though... And making Mean Streak better wouldn't have taken much

 

Overhype is probably why more of the younger goons aren't so enamoured with Nemesis, even if they're wrong...

[JoshuaA]

RMC and Nemesis have nothing on the beautiful overhype train of Millenium Force- a ride that is very often called the best when it literally just has two good moments followed by a bunch of nothing.

 

[Mattgwise]

5 minutes ago, JoshuaA said:

RMC and Nemesis have nothing on the beautiful overhype train of Millenium Force- a ride that is very often called the best when it literally just has two good moments followed by a bunch of nothing.

 

I personally feel MF is underrated. It might not have masses of airtime but it holds its speed for most of the ride and is just fast and bloody good fun! Not all rides need masses of airtime and intensity. Its my second favourite coaster just for the reasons I mention. 

[Coaster]

I also really enjoyed Millennium Force.  It's built for height and speed, not airtime.

[JoshuaA]

It certainly splits opinion, I think this sometimes can make people either have sky-high expectations or not many at all. I do think in the overall lineup of CP it is really good considering the pretty intense machines around it.  I still honestly don't know why its still put on the 'best coaster in the world' pedestal. Each to their own though. 

 

[Mattgwise]

45 minutes ago, JoshuaA said:

 I still honestly don't know why its still put on the 'best coaster in the world' pedestal. Each to their own though. 

Quite simply fast and fun suits a wider range of people. Not everyone loves airtime and being chucked out of their seats. A lot of my non enthusiast friends just want lots of loops or a fast ride. A few of my friends actually find airtime and "flying out of your seat" feelings to be unsafe. Sad I know but how it is. 

[Mark9]

9 hours ago, JoshuaA said:

It certainly splits opinion, I think this sometimes can make people either have sky-high expectations or not many at all. I do think in the overall lineup of CP it is really good considering the pretty intense machines around it.  I still honestly don't know why its still put on the 'best coaster in the world' pedestal. Each to their own though. 

 

 

See here's the thing with hype. We all get to rides at different ages, different levels of coaster counts and different likes and dislikes. I personally think Expedition Ge Force is garbage but I see I'm the minority and don't declare the thing over-hyped anymore. It's just not my thing. This works in other ways too, I enjoy Goudurix but the coaster community thinks it's one of the worst rollercoasters ever built. 

 

Over the years, coaster fans seem to imply that they are the enlightened ones when they don't enjoy a ride as much as others do. I see it with Nemesis all the time. I'd love it if we could just accept that we don't like a ride as much as others do and keep the overhyped word to a minimum as hype is a very subjective term. We won't though because it's also a very emotive word.

[Mark9]

On 7/5/2019 at 3:57 PM, Marhelorpe said:

 

 

I’ll be giving Untamed a go very soon, hoping this is better than my last experience of an RMC, as the layout looks a lot more interesting and the restraints look more giving (thank Christ). Not expecting to be blown away by this ride however, just pleased at the very least.

 

Update, you'll hate Untamed.

[Marhelorpe]

3 hours ago, Mark9 said:

Update, you'll hate Untamed.

Update, ye be wrong. 

[Mark9]

21 hours ago, Marhelorpe said:

Update, ye be wrong. 

 

Ooh, that's good. So will you now concede that basing a company on one ride like you did earlier was a bit silly and actually RMC aren't the Derren Brown of rollercoaster manufacturers.

 

An apology would also be nice. ?

[Marhelorpe]

I ain’t apologising for anything I have said about RMC previously my acquaintance, as I retain the view that as a company, they create designs which are questionable in execution in a few areas, even after riding Untamed yesterday and here’s why.

 

Untamed as a coaster layout-wise is fantastic. There’s no question about that. It’s a lot of fun from start to end with lots of surprisingly forceful elements, the least of which are those bunny hills at the end just before the final inversion. They were fantastic on the back row! I also love the fact that this ride is perfect proof that height and speed are not what makes an amazing ride either, as whilst it’s not the tallest or fastest on the market, it certainly packs one heck of a punch still despite it’s limitations. Kinda similar to Wicker Man which is also proof that height and speed are not everything.

 

However, I am going to say this again, but after enjoying Untamed hugely, I still believe RMC as a whole are once again in an enormous hype bubble at the moment (aka - newcomer DBGT hype) where people say there’s no faults with them and anyone who dares to criticise RMC should be witch-hunted for it, hence the reference. And there are still areas where I question their design an awful lot which some people overlook, just purely and simply because it’s an RMC coaster to them.

 

For example, I’ve been reading reviews for Untamed and heard from others the seats on them are more giving and spacious compared to older RMC’s such as Wildfire, where there’s more legroom, more accommodation, thinner shin restraints etc. That is all complete and utter b*llocks. They feel no different to Wildfire, the legroom was identical and the shin brackets still caused me a great deal of discomfort on the ride, probably more than Wildfire due to the more extreme airtime on it in all honesty.

 

But being my 2nd RMC, I was far more impressed by Untamed than I was for Wildfire this time and despite having bruised shins after, the ride itself made up for that. This RMC actually delivered, unlike “Mildfire” which was supposedly what many claimed the “2nd best RMC in the world” which, in my view, I can’t believe one jolt anymore.

 

RMC to me as a company are still in a lot of hype right now and in my experience after trying Untamed, I do concede what I said a little by now saying that whilst some of their products do deliver, others do not, which is why I’m still not looking at them as a whole thinking they are gods at coaster design.

 

They make great rides, but also make overhyped rides. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Marhelorpe
Changed from ‘mate’ to ‘acquaintance’.

[Mark9]

I was making a reply to your post but I don't think you're going to move beyond the 'RMC are overhyped' angle. We can just agree to disagree without calling me 'mate' right?

 

(Although I do look forward to when you ride your next RMC)

[Mysta Ghoul]

Untamed was jolly fun when I went on it recently. Really enjoyed it.

[JoshuaA]

I think with certain people RMC can make the best coaster in the world (which arguably they have already done) and people will still call them 'overhyped'.

I think RMC really is the 'arrow dynamics' of this era, some people might doubt them but they are undeniably smashing down ground for the industry which I think people in this forum don't appreciate enough. When RMC finally make more rides in Europe maybe more people will appreciate the very fun and well crafted rides that RMC make. Sure they aren't 100% perfect, but no ride is perfect.

[Coaster]

I will get round to this in my Steel Vengeance review but I also felt that the restraints ruined the ride massively.

 

It just isn't comfortable having your lower legs restricted like that and when you have a 30 year old hypercoaster with much more comfortable restraints than something that's brand new it's a bit of a joke really.

[Mark9]

Quote

My only complaint is the restraints, particularly around the legs aren't great. I don't know if its a height thing because it only seems to effect a few people. But its a minor complaint in what I think is one of the best rides built in the last ten years. Sure, I prefer Gatekeeper as I personally enjoy that ride more. But I don't underestimate the technical skills and know how that went into modifying, building and designing Steel Vengeance. 

^ My write up on SV last September

 

Just throwing it out there that on my first ride of Magnum, I found the restraints really painful particularly on the smaller air time hills. It was only when I went back on that I got 'how' to ride it. Now the question is should I have had to go back on to understand the best riding position or should it have been the first try. I'm not well versed on Arrow hypers.

 

I maintain that the RMC restraints favour certain body types over others. And I wonder if its to do with the death on New Texas Giant. Whilst they were Gerstlauer trains, I wonder when RMC did their own that they thought the leg guard was a necessary evil.

[JoshC.]

I was pleasantly surprised by Untamed's restraints. The shin guards didn't affect anything for me, and the lap bar wasn't an issue. Sure, during the aggressive airtime you push right up against it, but that's the same for any ride that has aggressive airtime (even Goliath - Walibi Holland one that is - is like that during the finale). I can see why people dislike them, but I have no issue with them.

[Coaster]

5 hours ago, Mark9 said:

^ My write up on SV last September

 

Just throwing it out there that on my first ride of Magnum, I found the restraints really painful particularly on the smaller air time hills. It was only when I went back on that I got 'how' to ride it. Now the question is should I have had to go back on to understand the best riding position or should it have been the first try. I'm not well versed on Arrow hypers.

 

I maintain that the RMC restraints favour certain body types over others. And I wonder if its to do with the death on New Texas Giant. Whilst they were Gerstlauer trains, I wonder when RMC did their own that they thought the leg guard was a necessary evil.

Magnum's restraints had new padding this year so were very comfortable, that said I've always found The Big One's restraints comfy to the point where you don't really notice them on ride.

 

I think it's because it's such a small bar rather than overly-padded and bulkier like most modern lapbar restrains systems.