Ghost Train - NEW for 2023

[coasterverse]

As Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon has been rethemed, I thought it'd be a good idea to start a new thread on the new iteration just to make things easier for archival sake.

 

Discuss away!

 

[coasterverse]

(Moving the discussion from the 2023 Thorpe Park topic into a place slightly more relevant)

 

5 hours ago, coasterverse said:

 

I very much think the ride system will be pretty much exactly as it were - but I do think they would have gone with what the general public have been saying for years and that's adding screens to the train. They can do it super cost effective now that they have the likes of Jack and Kieran on board - no need to pay thousands and thousands to get a professional movie studio to create the visuals when you can give it to a couple of talented enthusiasts to do at a fraction of the cost.

 

The mention of 'multisensory effects' does get me excited because as far as I can recall there wasn't really any on the original DBGT other than the motion platform the train sat on. I'm pretty sure the ride vehicle was fitted with leg ticklers right from the offset in 2016, but were never utilised for one reason or another. I wonder if they've programmed those in finally. A smoke machine would be really good, but wonder how they would do the whole live actor thing inside the train without it getting awkward being sat there for prolonged periods of time? Just good timing I guess as they'll need to reprogram the amount of time spent on the motion platform etc to fit the new visuals anyway.

 

I'm just really glad that the attraction is finally getting some attention since 2017. It's been in a dire state for years and to see some loving coming to the attraction is really warming. I really hope they keep the fake shop ending though, that was the best part of the attraction. Providing that this 'Ghost' on the Ghost Train building is the antagonist for this ride, I would love to see a costume made for him for the fake ending... but I suppose that all depends on the budget for the attraction as it definitely wouldn't be at a small cost that's for sure.

 

Actually, speaking of the costume it might not be as expensive as I originally thought...

 

If you remember back to the 2021 20 Years of Fear Thorpe Park teaser trailers they put out (see below for a reminder),

 

they pretty much already have a costume that basically exactly resembles the ghostly figure on the Ghost Train promotional material. The hooded figure, long gross fingernails... they literally already own a costume that almost fully resembles the figure on the promo material.

 

They could easily just repurpose this costume for the fake shop ending.

(Man I hope they keep the fake shop ending)

 

Here's another gander at the new Ghost Train branding for reference:

[JoshC.]

Thanks @coasterverse - you beat both me to creating the thread, and StevenVig to moaning about an improperly titled thread! I'm impressed and thankful!!

[coasterverse]

Officially confirmed to be a Merlin Magic Making project and not Thorpe doing it themselves! This project just gets more and more exciting…

[ML27]

Always better when Merlin Magic Making is involved.

 

This is no way to dis the entertainments team at Thorpe. However, I find the quality at Thorpe when entertainments make an attraction with external contractors differs from a proper MMM attraction.

 

Post DBGT I don’t think MMM have missed a mark with attraction considering budgets and constraints. They envisaged the original concept for the ride so it’s only fair that they make it work which I’m glad about.

 

For me, I am 100% sure that the budget will make or break this ride. Higher budget = more changes, Lower = Temporary fixes and short term ride

 

If they want a reridable ride, will they keep the fake shop? If you have to wait every time. It won’t be rerideable, Jack did hint saying that DBGT wasn’t rerideable

[coasterverse]

53 minutes ago, ML27 said:

Always better when Merlin Magic Making is involved.

 

This is no way to dis the entertainments team at Thorpe. However, I find the quality at Thorpe when entertainments make an attraction with external contractors differs from a proper MMM attraction.

 

Post DBGT I don’t think MMM have missed a mark with attraction considering budgets and constraints. They envisaged the original concept for the ride so it’s only fair that they make it work which I’m glad about.

 

For me, I am 100% sure that the budget will make or break this ride. Higher budget = more changes, Lower = Temporary fixes and short term ride

 

If they want a reridable ride, will they keep the fake shop? If you have to wait every time. It won’t be rerideable, Jack did hint saying that DBGT wasn’t rerideable

 

I’d probably say the potential for this to be re-rideable is probably going to be less than the original. At least the original had various different VR scenarios you could experience, but how do they make a predominantly actor-led attraction re-rideable? Will be interesting to see!

 

Perhaps they could bring the fake shop back but have various different endings. Maybe different characters, sometimes bypassing it completely, not sure. I’m sure there’s SOMETHING they could do to it to make it less predictable.

[Benin]

You'd hope that changing to a Merlin attraction would be done by their big in-house design team (even if they used to charge far more than external contractors for... reasons?) over the in-park entertainment mob.

 

Hopefully consideration for the long term is the big push there. Or at least making things at Thorpe that last slightly more than 2 years before it gets cut to pieces and mothballed.

[coasterverse]

11 minutes ago, Benin said:

You'd hope that changing to a Merlin attraction would be done by their big in-house design team (even if they used to charge far more than external contractors for... reasons?) over the in-park entertainment mob.

 

Hopefully consideration for the long term is the big push there. Or at least making things at Thorpe that last slightly more than 2 years before it gets cut to pieces and mothballed.

 

I'd like to think that they going to really take this one seriously to try to make a success out of it after a lacklustre launch period in 2016/17. On one hand I am concerned that there has been absolutely zero official pre-warning about this retheme unlike Duel which makes me question the amount of pre-planning that's gone into this attraction... but on the other hand, like I said, I am hopeful that the park (and probably the execs in Merlin) have finally accepted the technical financial failure that was DBGT and are going to do everything in their power to turn it around.

 

I guess they were probably limited on things that they could've done with the attraction with Derren's brand associated with it as they didn't want to stray too far from his original ideas, probably for legal reasons. No longer having his IP associated with the attraction might hopefully let them spread their wings a bit more and make something totally brand new.

 

Wonder what's gonna happen with the pre-show room... I actually really liked the pepper's ghost effect. That was really well done.

[coasterverse]

4 minutes ago, coasterverse said:

On one hand I am concerned that there has been absolutely zero official pre-warning about this retheme unlike Duel which makes me question the amount of pre-planning that's gone into this attraction...

 

 

Turns out my question has already been answered! Over a year's planning is a substantial amount of planning for an attraction to be honest when you think that the ride system and exterior building are already in place anyway, so it's just the storyline and new interior you have to actually plan! I really do have faith in this new attraction... don't let me down, Thorpe!

[ML27]

The project has since been confirmed to be a Merlin Magic Making project.

 

The pre-show can be easily changed, I don’t know if anyone watched The apprentice in 2019. At the start of the program Alan Sugar was projected using the same screen. So I can imagine Ghosts and spooky things may work well, it just might be not as serious as Derrens Spiel.

 

They’ve got a good layout of a building, a pre show, waiting area, ride area and post show.

 

Include the real shop into the to make the space bigger and wow. Just a shame there won’t be a proper ride to go on after the preshow. Concept and layout is thwre

[Benin]

Year isn't too surprising, would've known the contract was ending and the likelihood of renewal was zero.

 

From the sounds of it they'd got Derren on board after the choice of system & VR inclusion, and probably means a lot of butting heads between those involved in the design. I'd imagine Derren could easily design an interesting attraction at first stage rather than having to work around the system in question. Resulting in the confused final product.

 

I mean they can't do any worse? But if it's going to be actor led again Metlin don't have the best record of the quality or consistency of those.

[JoshC.]

 

1 hour ago, Benin said:

I mean they can't do any worse? But if it's going to be actor led again Metlin don't have the best record of the quality or consistency of those.

 

To be fair, compared from the 2017 version (ie when they needed more because of the new ending), the actor and staffing levels in Ghost Train remained pretty consistent.

 

In 2017, there was:

-Staff member at entrance

-Staff member at batch

-Staff member for pre show

-Staff member for load room

-2 staff members (ride hosts) per train (3 trains in operation)

-2 staff members (ride operators) operating the ride

-Staff member for VR goggle cleaning

-Approx. 3 actors in train crash scene

-2 actors in finale

Total: 9 ride staff, 5 actors

 

Last year, there was:

-Staff member at batch

-Staff member for pre show

-2 staff members (ride hosts) per train (2 trains in operation)

-2 staff members (ride operators) operating the ride

-Staff member for VR goggle cleaning

-Approx. 3 actors in train crash scene

-2 actors in finale, when in operation

-Actor in load room, sometimes

Total: 7 ride staff, 3-6 actors

 

The load room actor seemed to be chopped and changed and wasn't necessary. The finale was skipped sometimes over FN if there were actor shortages. So whilst there has been staffing reductions on Ghost Train, it's not as dramatic as some may think. That at least suggests the park can keep a level of consistency with actors and staffing for Ghost Train.

 

 

I have several thoughts regarding the development. Firstly, it's good that they're doing something with this. DBGT could not continue to operate in the way it did last year, especially towards the end. Literally having it SBNO would be better than the embarrassing state it was in over Fright Nights.

 

The story idea sounds solid enough, and works nicely with what they have.

 

No VR is a double-edged sword. Obviously the VR was outdated, temperamental and a faff. But there was potential with it, which was largely unfulfilled. But the bigger thing now is what do you do without the VR? The 'ride' portion is very much just the train moving a bit, stopping for a few minutes, and moving again. The park have said they expect the attraction to last about 15minutes, which is the same as DBGT. That would mean each train portion of the ride is about 4 minutes. 

Now here's the thing, how do they plan on keeping a train carriage full of people entertained for 4 minutes? Putting screens in the windows could work, but watching a screen entirely for 4 minutes in a train carriage full of people is going to be a bit awkward, no? And would also mean potentially halving the capacity of each train. Entirely actor based sounds impractical given the set up of the trains. A blend of the two is probably the best way forward, but difficult to execute.

 

There's talks of extra / new special effects too. With no VR it may be easier to introduce / maintain special effects, such as smoke, leg ticklers (which were planned but never installed), or bringing back things like rocking the train carriage. But how much do those things truly add.

 

The best bet for Ghost Train, in my opinion, is to go 'full Dungeons' on it. The Dungeons are, in essence, actor-led, interactive scenes, with a loose narrative linking it together, and some ride elements. If the park can recreate something like that, then it will be fairly good. Whether they can is a different matter. And if that's what they go for, they need to ensure that it's marketed as such. Setting suitable expectations for guests is perhaps the biggest challenge for this attraction right now.

 

[ML27]

I’ve heard a rumor that they are using the shop as a restaurant

[ML27]

The rumor was true 😂😂😂😂

[coasterverse]

2 hours ago, ML27 said:

The rumor was true 😂😂😂😂

 

I really don’t know how to feel about it… on one hand - having a café at the park is a really good shout and I’m all for another food outlet for a wider array of food choice (especially if it allows MAP discount!), but on the other hand I think the vibe of the café really ruins the aesthetic. It’s too modern. Nothing about the café screams “Ghost Train” to me. The Ghost Train Shop was at least well themed to look like a dark, dingy shop - it fitted the aesthetic!

 

The exterior of the building is an abandoned train depot, walk though the doors of the Last Call Café aaaaaand… it’s a bright, vibrant café.

[Benin]

I mean its just concept art there. The final product might look as dark and dingy as your local station's Pumpkin Cafe/Costa/Nero.

[Inferno]

My expectations on this have gone up and down more than a the much anticipated Thorpe B&M hyper.

 

↗️At first I did think, wow this could be fab! No more VR and no more Derren - it’s what people have been asking for for years.

 

↘️Then I got thinking about what it could be… As Josh mentioned, the “ride” itself is an absolute yawn fest - it’s literally a box that slowly moves from one position to the next… If not done well, this could be a very awkward and drawn out experience.

 

↗️However.. with screens for windows and actors etc, really there are many possibilities.. if they can “do up” the experience to match the incredible station theming inside, this could be something very special indeed.

 

↘️Then my mind casts back to the other (non fn) “walkthrough experience” type attractions Thorpe have done over the years, and to be honest they’ve been lacklustre to say the least.

 

↗️Then you see Merlin Magic Making are involved, planning has been ongoing for over a year, and they’re even investing in a cafe and shop etc…. Looks like they’re taking this seriously after all? This is like something a “proper theme park” would do isn’t it? 

↘️See-sawing the other way again though… why haven’t they hyped this up? Is this a just small refurb / removal of Derren and masks after all?

 

I don’t know what to think!
↗️I’m optimistic and hopeful that Thorpe can FINALLY deliver a good attraction before they blow everyone away with Exodus, something they haven’t really been able to achieve for over a decade.

[ML27]

Something to note, the investment into the cafe is not by Merlin or Thorpe. 
 

It’s actually Aramark, which by me is fine. Leave them to create their own dining experiences and that’s all they have to focus on right? Wrong, the quality of food and prices which accompany them have been poor. They can’t get the basics right….

 

However if the quality of the food was better and I’d be much more excited for better dining experiences in the parks. This is much needed for U.K. weather, the park does not have chill indoor places to sit.

[MattyMoo]

Best food on park during Fright Nights was from the non-Aramark run smokehouse stand, without a shadow of a doubt. Says it all really.

 

[JoshC.]

2 hours ago, MattyMoo said:

Best food on park during Fright Nights was from the non-Aramark run smokehouse stand, without a shadow of a doubt. Says it all really.

 

 

Which was, of course, called Ghost Train Smokery.

 

Now that is my true ghost train.

[StevenVig]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:24 PM, ML27 said:

They envisaged the original concept for the ride so it’s only fair that they make it work

They've literally had 6 years to make it work, if they haven't achieved it in that time, they never will. 

Everyone knows by now to go in with extremely low expectations, then you wont be disappointed when it turns out to be a shambles. 

[Inferno]

Oh it’s an Aramark cafe?  Damn.

 

I noticed recently they did the food at the Warner Bros Studio Tour - which was probably one of the most revolting “lunches” I’ve ever had 🤢 

[Stuntman707]

So Derren Brown sheds his contractual obligations. (Hidden Fok😉)

I’m so glad they’re finally ditching VR. Fairly confident MMM can turn it into a good and reliable attraction using practical effects. The next few years are shaping up to be very positive for the UK parks.

[1729]

It be interesting what they do with it, fact is if you wanted to do the minimum, you could change the pre and post show film, film a person in front of a green screen for the carriage screen with Derren and replace his voice, either like for like or for a new story

Oh and remove any Derren Easter eggs, like the Trick or Treat poster in the mid scene and apparently the VR had some Easter eggs but thay may of been part of VR 2 which was changed (bonus props to the alternative version of VR 2 which was never used where the demon had a different design and flew, like how the first section had 2 versions)

 

But with MMM it sounds like they be doing more than that especially if they are removing the troublesome hot VR (the vr wasn't the only reason the building is very toasty but it doesn't help)

 

I would expect screens in the windows of the train mainly as the alternative is trying to do all media via the small advertising screens

and use the leg ticklers that where thought about, installed and then cut I want to say cause they didn't work properly?

 

A actor lead experience could work, especially since it already was kinda one, just the actor going from load to load not just the middle scene

 

I would love to see them re do the lights on stick train crash effect but its a shame that it the effect was temperamental and didn't work consistently since it was probably a highlight of the ride

 

I would also hope they keep the atmosphere, by that, the ride has a gloomy tense atmosphere with its theming music and a good (usualy actor lead) spiel between the pre show and load works very well (this was one of the actor positions that was a proper actor if I remember correct, not ride staff doing a bit)

 

There is potential here to make a proper Tussauds walk through experiance

Dungeons, Hex, etc

 

I hope they get it right and reliable

[coasterverse]

7 minutes ago, 1729 said:

I hope they get it right and reliable

 

It’d be pretty damn impressive if they managed to make it worse 😂 I don’t know why, but I’ve got a real good feeling about this. I think with all the investment Merlin are doing at the minute (Jumunji, Nemesis, Sub-Terra, Curse at Alton Manor, Exodus, all the general wear & tear improvements to the Swarm queue line, and now Ghost Train), Merlin are clearly looking to seriously improve all their parks which until now has been severely lacking.

 

The way I see it is, Merlin have missed the mark twice now with both 2016 and 2017 iterations of Ghost Train, now they’ll be knuckling down to ensure it’s done right. The lack of IP attached too means they have complete freedom and not held back by any third parties.

 

I think we might, finally, be seeing a good few dark rides in the UK. Words cannot describe my excitement for the UK theme park industry this season and beyond.