Hyperia - New for 2024 (Ride thread)

[Benin]

The 99% factored in Stealth. Though nowadays it only ever has 2 ready for actual operation (3rd one is in strip down mode all season if I recall?).

 

I also said parks buy the amount of trains to suit the block brakes/sections. Not like parks in the US have 4 trains rather than 3 (if they ever operate to a decent standard) on those that can.

 

Hyperia doesn't have a MCBR, so cannot run 3 trains at one time. What's the point in buying and maintaining an additional train when the engineering team is stretched as it is and you'll not be likely to need it on a regular basis. 2006 Thorpe is not 2024 Thorpe, and probably got the 3rd train on Stealth due to Rita being problematic the year before.

 

As said, it's weird that it's a bug bear for Hyperia but not Swarm for example. Wickerman is about the only one that can actually run 3 trains (and even then sometimes you're sat in the brakes for ages, thus negating the throughput bonus).

[Coaster]

1 hour ago, Benin said:

The 99% factored in Stealth. Though nowadays it only ever has 2 ready for actual operation (3rd one is in strip down mode all season if I recall?).

 

I also said parks buy the amount of trains to suit the block brakes/sections. Not like parks in the US have 4 trains rather than 3 (if they ever operate to a decent standard) on those that can.

 

Hyperia doesn't have a MCBR, so cannot run 3 trains at one time. What's the point in buying and maintaining an additional train when the engineering team is stretched as it is and you'll not be likely to need it on a regular basis. 2006 Thorpe is not 2024 Thorpe, and probably got the 3rd train on Stealth due to Rita being problematic the year before.

 

As said, it's weird that it's a bug bear for Hyperia but not Swarm for example. Wickerman is about the only one that can actually run 3 trains (and even then sometimes you're sat in the brakes for ages, thus negating the throughput bonus).

 

The point; to prevent, or vastly reduce the frequency of, a situation where the most popular coaster in the park is running one train during one of the busiest periods of the year.  Having a 4 hour main queue and 60 min Fastrack queue on one train is ridiculous.

 

With the maintenance team being stretched; this is also a Merlin/industry issue, which the company needs to resolve through better terms to attract more employees.

 

I don’t think we should accept bare minimum because of another problem that is within the company's power to resolve - they are just choosing not to.

[JoshC.]

7 hours ago, Coaster said:

Thorpe really should have bought three trains to ensure that when one is unavailable, they still have two serviceable ones.

 

They cheaped out and guest experience has taken a massive hit during one of their busiest periods; but it's okay,

 

 

Aside from Stealth, can you give any examples of a park buying more trains than they can run on the track at any one time?

 

I know of a couple:

Blue Fire at Europa, which has 5 but can run a maximum of 4. 

Joris en de Draak at Efteling, which again has 5 but (across the 2 coasters) runs a maximum of 4.

 

I'm struggling to think of more examples, but I'd love to hear more. I'd be very surprised if there's any outside of the biggest theme park players.

 

Let's take stock for a second. One of these is a Mack coaster at the theme park that Mack owns and operates, and is the only such instance where they've done that.

 

 

Efteling purchased a 5th train for Joris around 13 years after opening, following issues.

 

These are two extreme examples. You are saying that Thorpe should, in engineering terms, be in the same league - or better - than two theme parks which are considered some of the best in the world. One of which has a huge engineering advantage of being owned by a manufacturer, one of which is open daily and has huge financial backing.

 

I'm all for aiming high and Thorpe being the best they can be, but we have to acknowledge the limitations there.

 

 

To say the park "cheaped out" by not buying a 3rd train is crazy. A 3rd train is likely a high-6 / low-7 figure number. On top of that, you realistically need to include extra space for the third train in maintenance. That costs more. Then you need more money to maintain a 3rd train. All adds up.

 

On top of this, we have an area which looks far from perfect, and money needs to be spent there to bring that up to the quality it should be. That's where they've cheaped out. 

 

If the park were to have bought a third train, and they couldn't increase the budget, that would come either at the sake of even worse presentation, or an even shorter layout.

 

 

And remember, this is all in the situation for when a train cannot be used whatsoever, which is - across the board - not that common occurrence.

 

7 hours ago, Coaster said:

because they've used it as an opportunity to sell more Fastrack.  And so continues the mediocrity.

 

Incorrect. The park have not sold "more" Fastrack.

 

The park have sold Fastrack in line with the expected throughput that Hyperia would achieve. However, that, topped with shutdowns and multiple Hyperia Fastrack tickets being given out as a result, means that the queue length spiralled on occasions.

 

I add here: I do not think that selling Fastrack for the major new coaster when it's on 1 train is a good idea. I do not think they should do it whatsoever. However, the park are categorically not selling more Fastrack, or selling it at a greater proportion compared to when it was on two trains.

 

 

5 hours ago, Inferno said:

There are plenty of similar scale rides around the world with MCBRs running 3 trains, and even some without which have 3 trains - one of which is about 200 meters away from Hyperia.

 

In fact when the plans were released there was some small degree of disappointment for some that it didn't have an MCBR.

 

There's no denying that building an expensive flagship ride of this scale with built-in resilience for unforeseen things like this (and regular planned maintenance) would be a good thing - 2 trains running on a layout that can support 3 is better than 1 on a layout that can support 2.

 

I do agree, 2 is fair enough for Hyperia, and there's little point paying so much more for an extra one - but given the height of Hyperia, support for a 3 train operation through a slightly longer layout and a MCBR would have been fantastic, and would almost completely eliminate the impact of things like this, not to mention the drastically reduced queue times ("queueing ruined my day" KPI anyone?)

 

4 hours ago, Benin said:

Hyperia doesn't have a MCBR, so cannot run 3 trains at one time. What's the point in buying and maintaining an additional train when the engineering team is stretched as it is and you'll not be likely to need it on a regular basis. 2006 Thorpe is not 2024 Thorpe, and probably got the 3rd train on Stealth due to Rita being problematic the year before.

 

 

I expect that the lack of MCBR was, partially at least, a conscious design choice, as opposed to solely a budget choice.

 

The ride is fast-paced, quick and relentless. It uses every inch of its layout to provide large, swooping, airtime-filled elements. It's not to everyone's liking, and some will argue that even without an MCBR it could do more. But it's also clear what they've tried to do.

 

I do expect there's a budget-decision behind it too of course, but again, I don't think it was "How can we build the UK's tallest coaster for as cheap as possible?". Also, in terms of length, Hyperia is the third-longest coaster in Merlin's entire portfolio. Again, that's not to say the park / Merlin shouldn't be aiming to build longer coasters, but there's a certain level of context that should be kept in mind too I think.

 

5 hours ago, Cal said:

In my opinion, Hyperias layout doesn't support the need for 3 trains, they just need to sort out the time it takes on the break run. 

 

Look at Thirteen. The train practically launches you back into the station. Wardly spoke to Intamin and made sure the trains get back into the station as quickly as possible to achieve a decent throughput. Why wasn't the same thing done for Hyperia? 

 

I guess the question here: is this Thorpe/Merlin's or Mack's faults?

 

Hyperia's issues could arguably be pinned on Mack. The lift hill thrashed itself after 1 day of opening to the public. The ride has stalled twice in the same location. 

 

Was it expected that the ride would enter the station at a quicker pace? Did Merlin check? Should they have had to? Can Mack do anything about it? Or did Merlin cheap out?

 

Would be interesting to know what the other Mack, non-launched hyper coasters are like.

 

 

2 hours ago, Coaster said:

 

The point; to prevent, or vastly reduce the frequency of, a situation where the most popular coaster in the park is running one train during one of the busiest periods of the year.  Having a 4 hour main queue and 60 min Fastrack queue on one train is ridiculous.

 

Kind of goes to the point: should Thorpe (or any park) have to buy a third train to mitigate for the potential of issues which could be down to the manufacturer?

 

Or should the park buy 4 trains, in case both trains have issues?

 

Let's look at other issues on other rides/parks.

-A few years ago, Swarm's chain lift hill snapped, just as Fright Nights started. Should the park have a spare chain on hand at all times.

-Formula Rossa's launch cable snapped earlier this, and it damaged a train. That happened in January and the ride is still closed. Should Ferrari World have a spare launch cable, and an extra train, on hand at all times so they can just replace them, rather than going through the lengthy wait to get them replaced/repaired?

 

Every park everywhere will do what they can to prevent issues. But there has to be a business balance. Should parks spend millions (literally) to allow for maximum operation at all times, to mitigate rare and extraordinary circumstances.

 

2 hours ago, Coaster said:

 

With the maintenance team being stretched; this is also a Merlin/industry issue, which the company needs to resolve through better terms to attract more employees.

 

I don’t think we should accept bare minimum because of another problem that is within the company's power to resolve - they are just choosing not to.

 

I'm a little confused by this finale point. What problem are you saying is in the company's power to resolve? Is it:

1. The company paying more to get, store and maintain a third train.

2. The company hiring more maintenance staff, so they would have the resources to maintain a hypothetical third train.

 

If it's the first point, that's been discussed.

 

If it's the latter, as you have said yourself, it's an industry problem. Engineers at theme parks work unfriendly hours, in all weathers, in a role which is driven by delivering immediate customer service and satisfaction. That is unlike many other engineering roles. On top of that, the park isn't as good as many other engineering roles.

 

But that's the same at every theme park. We can argue that Merlin should pay more, offer better benefits, etc etc. But it's not just them, it's every park. It's exactly the same in plenty of other industries. Teachers should be paid more, why doesn't a school just pay its teachers more? Doctors should be paid more, why doesn't a hospital just pay its doctors more? McDonald's servers should be paid more than minimum wage, why doesn't a particular franchise just pay its staff more? 

 

As I say, we can argue that Merlin should pay its staff more, but that's a much, much wider problem.

 

 

I respect you Coaster, but honestly, I think the standard you're trying to hold Thorpe/Merlin to is just completely unrealistic and unachievable for them.

[Marc]

I find the 3rd train debate quite interesting, I remember back in the day Stealth would indeed have 3 trains serviceable, but it would still have technical issues causing it spend time on one train - I guess it shows that sometimes rides are on one train for a more complex reason than the other one is simply broke. As Benin says now a days they use the 3rd train to have a continuous cycle of “winter” refurbishment on the other, whilst it may result in the odd day where a train has a genuine fault it won’t be able to run full capacity it’s probably very very rare.

 

In my opinion Thorpe / Merlin shouldn’t have to buy more trains than the ride can run to ensure 2 trains are always available, trains shouldn’t frequently be having to be craned off the ride and rebuilt.

 

I have a feeling in an alternate world if Mack hadn’t built Hyperia and it faced similar issues the manufacturer would be taking abit more of the slack here..

 

As for the fastrack debate I see both sides to it, I’ll admit I bought fastrack for it on Sunday, if fastrack wasn’t available the person I was with wouldn’t have rode Hyperia. The first time we rode it the fastrack queue was empty and the 2nd maybe 20 or so people in front of us, so it don’t seem like it’s being sold excessively. It seemed a bigger issue when the queue had to be evacuated on the Friday and everyone had priority passes for it, again it’s a tough one and I can see why the park do give out priority passes in this instance. It’s worth noting after it shutdown and priority passes were issued you could not buy any fastrack for it.

[Jack29]

Shambhala was on one train operation last weekend with the other two sat dormant in the maintenance area. Three hour queue. 

 

It goes to show even if you have three it doesn't mean they will be used, even on peak days. 

 

[Inferno]

On 10/3/2024 at 11:00 AM, Inferno said:

I wish it had a third train

I deeply regret this throw away comment 😂

 

For what it’s worth, as someone who can barely run a bath, let alone a theme park, I think Thorpe are handling this really well and they’ve been smashing it this season, and nothing I would do would be any better.

 

However, why they can’t just dust off that spare XNWO train and get it on Hyperia as train 3 is beyond me

[Benin]

@JoshC. Can't Blue Fire potentially run 5? Unload & Offload (if operating separately), pre-launch, then pre and post MCBR?

 

@Coaster This isn't the same as them barely bothering with park hours, events or half decent customer service. It's sensible business practice, since as Josh listed no one really hordes trains. It's often an issue that plagues any park if there's unforeseen issues. But is it financially worthwhile to spend 6 figures on an additional train and infrastructure when it'll spend most time collecting dust?

 

Merlin will need to do a lot more to attract experienced engineers. Especially given it being very niche and requiring both mechanical and electrical knowledge (and most engineers specify in one). Add on the weird hours and days and it's a tricky sell.

 

@Marc Should've built that B&M instead. Though no ride manufacturer is immune from stalling issues.

 

[Coaster_Contrarian]

18 hours ago, Marc said:

 

 

I have a feeling in an alternate world if Mack hadn’t built Hyperia and it faced similar issues the manufacturer would be taking abit more of the slack here..

 

 

There has been remarkably little criticism of Mack. Nobody seems to want to admit that, at this point, it looks like Hyperia's problems have been caused by good old-fashioned poor design.

[Benin]

It's completely conjecture and guesswork, by a lot of armchair engineers about it.

 

If we bemoaned every ride manufacturer that ended up with a ride stalling, there wouldn't be many to choose from. Maybe Golden Horse.

[Marc]

I was half joking - it is a new ride and of course new rides do suffer issues - but I’ve seen people blaming Thorpe for not loading trains full of dummies etc, I would guess empty trains should be able to make it round without many worries - especially when it’s the middle of summer as it was when this first happened.

 

Ive no doubt solutions will be being worked on to try alleviate this.

[Inferno]

It must be an absolute nightmare for the staff to have to haul all those dummies around every time it needs to test .

[Cal]

Noticed a message has appeared on the Hyperia page on the app today explaining reduced capacity. Hopefully this isn't a sign that its likely to be on 1 train for a while longer? 

 

 

Also, I really hate the randomness of them closing the queue early.

 

Friday and Saturday 9pm close, advertised queue of over 2 hours = Queue closes at advertised closing time.
Off Peak Wednesday 5pm close, advertised queue of 1 hour = Queue closes early.

 

Really hope they can scrap this and just close the queue at closing time permanently next year. Or at least some consistency/better communication. 

[Coaster]

On 10/7/2024 at 8:03 PM, JoshC. said:

Aside from Stealth, can you give any examples of a park buying more trains than they can run on the track at any one time?

 

I know of a couple:

Blue Fire at Europa, which has 5 but can run a maximum of 4. 

Joris en de Draak at Efteling, which again has 5 but (across the 2 coasters) runs a maximum of 4.

 

I'm struggling to think of more examples, but I'd love to hear more. I'd be very surprised if there's any outside of the biggest theme park players.

 

Let's take stock for a second. One of these is a Mack coaster at the theme park that Mack owns and operates, and is the only such instance where they've done that.

 

 

Efteling purchased a 5th train for Joris around 13 years after opening, following issues.

 

These are two extreme examples. You are saying that Thorpe should, in engineering terms, be in the same league - or better - than two theme parks which are considered some of the best in the world. One of which has a huge engineering advantage of being owned by a manufacturer, one of which is open daily and has huge financial backing.

 

I'm all for aiming high and Thorpe being the best they can be, but we have to acknowledge the limitations there.

 

 

To say the park "cheaped out" by not buying a 3rd train is crazy. A 3rd train is likely a high-6 / low-7 figure number. On top of that, you realistically need to include extra space for the third train in maintenance. That costs more. Then you need more money to maintain a 3rd train. All adds up.

 

On top of this, we have an area which looks far from perfect, and money needs to be spent there to bring that up to the quality it should be. That's where they've cheaped out. 

 

If the park were to have bought a third train, and they couldn't increase the budget, that would come either at the sake of even worse presentation, or an even shorter layout.

 

 

And remember, this is all in the situation for when a train cannot be used whatsoever, which is - across the board - not that common occurrence.

 

I can think of a few examples where parks have kept/built up more trains than they need; up until 2020-ish, BPB would always have 3 trains in the station for Big One and 3 for Avalanche, even though those rides have not operated with 3 trains for well over 15 years in both cases.   I guess this is a slightly different case in that the rides were both designed for 3, but the park were still making more trains serviceable than they needed.  (Sadly this has stopped now - and as a result both run with one train much more often).

 

Also, the Roller Coaster at GYPB has 3 serviceable trains even though it very rarely runs more than one at a time.

 

Perhaps it comes down to whether a longer coaster with the ability to run 3 trains would have been ideal - then, if one was out of action, there would be 2 available by design.  I take onboard that buying a 3rd train without being able to run it would be expensive, but I do hope they are able to find a fix of some kind as the situation now is far from ideal.

 

 

 

On 10/7/2024 at 8:03 PM, JoshC. said:

Incorrect. The park have not sold "more" Fastrack.

 

The park have sold Fastrack in line with the expected throughput that Hyperia would achieve. However, that, topped with shutdowns and multiple Hyperia Fastrack tickets being given out as a result, means that the queue length spiralled on occasions.

 

I add here: I do not think that selling Fastrack for the major new coaster when it's on 1 train is a good idea. I do not think they should do it whatsoever. However, the park are categorically not selling more Fastrack, or selling it at a greater proportion compared to when it was on two trains.

 

I wasn't suggesting Thorpe had increased the Fastrack capacity; but more that it's likely that more people bought one to avoid the four hour queue, and going by the 60 minute Fastrack queue time, it did not seem that Thorpe had taken any measures to reduce the capacity to factor in the 1 train.  Therefore, they could have potentially sold more than usual despite not literally increasing the number of available Fastracks.

[Marc]

It is worth noting the time Hyperia had a 1 hour plus fastrack queue (what I’m aware of) was on the Friday where earlier that day the queue was evacuated and priority passes handed out.

 

I checked on the app and you couldn’t buy fastrack when it reopened.

[Mattgwise]

Regardless of thoughts, we can't deny Thorpe has by far been the best run Merlin park this year. It has been a disaster at Towers and CWoA most the year!

[Benin]

Depends who you ask.

 

My first visit this season was an absolute disaster. Especially when they trotted out the old "well you have a MAP" line.

 

However Towers aren't in my good books now. So I guess overall the race to be the least worst continues.

[Pickles]

On 10/9/2024 at 9:58 PM, Mattgwise said:

Regardless of thoughts, we can't deny Thorpe has by far been the best run Merlin park this year. It has been a disaster at Towers and CWoA most the year!

LEGOLAND 2024 all the way, bar Miniland looking dilapidated it was fab.

 

Hyperia with a third train would be the biggest money waste they’ve done in a while. That’s saying something…

 

On a plus side, surely they’ve got to a point now where they will listen to Mack and run it with dummies for at least an hour before open. Hassle and burden? Sure but reward outweighs the risk. 

[Cal]

Queue closed at 9 again tonight, so seems they're pretty consistent at closing at park close on fright nights dates which is good. 

 

Hugely overstating the queue though, probably to put people off getting in the queue. Advertising and multiple announcements that the queue was 200 mins (over 3 hours) when it wasn't over 90 mins. 

 

Fingers crossed they can get the 2nd train back asap! They're going to need it for half term week...

[JoshC.]

10 hours ago, Pickles said:

On a plus side, surely they’ve got to a point now where they will listen to Mack and run it with dummies for at least an hour before open. Hassle and burden? Sure but reward outweighs the risk. 

 

I mean, they are running it with dummies during testing. For a whole hour, who knows.

 

But should a ride have to run with dummies for a whole hour every day before opening? Sure it's new a is still bedding in, but that feels like a Mack issue there.

 

Also doesn't help if the ride shuts down for a prolonged period and the park need to do test runs, which is where the ride has been running slowly.

[Inferno]

Agreed - it definitely shouldn’t need that.

 

Thing is, I can’t imagine much can be done now. In planet coaster you’d take a couple of ft off the high point, either that or speed up the lift hill!

 

….. Speaking of which I’ve seen a couple of reels on instagram this week showing the lift motor speed up when the testing train reaches the top of the hill - perhaps this is a workaround? Fling it it over the top and hope for the best!

 

In other news - as of today, Hyperia is now back to running 2 trains 🚂 

[JoshC.]

52 minutes ago, Inferno said:

Speaking of which I’ve seen a couple of reels on instagram this week showing the lift motor speed up when the testing train reaches the top of the hill - perhaps this is a workaround? Fling it it over the top and hope for the best!

 

Seems to be a quick fix for now. If the ride stops at the top of the lift hill, there's no guarantee it can reach that increased speed in time.

 

Also think that moving forward it's only something they're doing on test trains (which tbf, is when there's problems).

 

But yes, good news that it's back on 2! I believe today is one of the busiest days of the season, so very much needed!