Will Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) On Screamscape, a website called http://parkthoughts....pon-7-revealed/ has posted some really interesting info about the new Secret Weapon 7 coaster.It basically states that they don't think the new coaster will be a Eurofighter and their 'money' is on an X-Car coaster similar to the Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit at Universal Studios Florida and based on the coaster Takabisha, which has a vertical lift as well as a launch section.Though it says that the ride is similar to SAW: The Ride at Thorpe Park, a Eurofigher Gerstlauer, they state that this comparison was only given to appease the local neighbours and by using the SAW Eurofighter as an example, it would be a cheap method of gathering noise-level data.Park Thoughts state that the trains on the HRRR has 2 cars per trains, each containing 6 passengers for a total of 12. Maurer Sohne state that they can fit 3 cars per train, totalling 18 passengers per train.The lifthill comparison of HRRR vs. AT SW7, shows the AT SW7 coaster with an opposite / backwards version of HRRR's lifthill. Instead of a vertical lift and a normal, sloping drop, there would be a normal lifthill and a vertical drop.There seems to be 8 inversions outside and they speculate there could be 1-2 inversions inside an apparent dark-section akin to SAW's indoors dark section and heartline roll, which could allow it to tie Thorpe Park with Colossus for 10-inversion rollercoaster. The only problem is that the Chinese are supposedly building an 11-inversion rollercoaster, so will this 11-inversion rollercoaster from the Far-East thwart Alton's plans?The trains on this rollercoaster could be unique and maybe there will be some new style of Floorless trains with on-board audio and unique restraints, that don't restrict the forces and weightlessness feeling that OSR (over-should restraints) have.As Alton Towers typically are, they always have a few tricks up their sleeves and I am keen to wait and find out, But imagine that this could be Europe's first, vertical launching, 10-inversion rollercoaster with floorless, on-board audio trains Edited January 10, 2012 by Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraX Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Whilst it's obvious to see the similarities, especially around the vertical lift supports to HRRR, and whilst I'm sure Alton Towers have plenty up their sleeves regard to the gimmick, I still find it odd that the application mentions SAW as the SAME ride manafacturer.I don't know anything about this one and am looking forward to where this turns us. I wasn't blown away with HRRR, but an X-car over a Euro Fighter? Yes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not fussed what we get to be quite honest.Eurofighters CAN be very very good, as proven by Mystery Mine and Fluch, Takibashi looks ridiculous but no-one's actually ridden it really.X-Car's I've only done G-Force and Shock, one is worse than awful, and the newest one is excellent fun.Either way, be it X-Car or Eurofighter, it will either be really good, or really crap. And BECAUSE of the locality to Drayton (and THEIR X-Car) I will plump for Gerstlauer. Alton won't want people coming in, making some form of recognition to something awful and automatically assuming it will be crap. Similarly for Saw in a way but that's quite a hit with the GP. Will 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 a website called http://parkthoughts....pon-7-revealed/ has posted some really interesting news about the new Secret Weapon 7 coaster.They have not posted any news, interesting or otherwise. They've posted a lot of opinion, which is the same stuff that's been going round and round the forums since the moment the plans were released. As a site that can't differentiate between a Euro and a Pound I wouldn't take it too seriously.The plans unequivocally state what the manufacturer and ride type are. I guess there is a chance that the plans are massively wrong but I'm going to go for that being a very slim chance, considering the consequences of getting it wrong if the noise complaints start up again.No one knows what it is yet, but until someone shows me proof otherwise it is a Gerstlauer Eurofighter, even if it is something of a new variation of that design. Adam Jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam T Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 A member on TTF posting something.. strange and interesting.Member consult224 said Hello all,I have been reading over your comments on the forum but I feel I should add, this is not a Gerst. coaster. How do I know? well I work for one of the firms involved in designing this project, But I can confidently tell you all that this will not be a Gerst/ but will be a well known manufacturer and I am sure that you shall be impressed by the new coaster.Also when we took the noise readings yes these were compared to SAW and so this was based around SAW. It is not uncommon as most of you are aware for a company to change designs of things / products. The coaster itself does not require to have Planning Consent it is merely the building for the station, ancillary and shop that is required to do so.The finished product of track design and layout I am sure you will be pleased with and also the type of trains / car being used.You will appreciate I cannot comment much on this project too much at this stage but AT shall make an announcemnet in the near future to you all on this exciting new development.Make of it what you will? But most people have called it lies and just made up, but it does say it won't be a Gerstlauer but they don't say what it will be..I would personal like a Gerstlauer because the NL made is look so sexy and flow around the track with ease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamY Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 His inability to form a coherent paragraph leads me to doubt the validity of what he is saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentez Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The mystery users follow up reply...... Just so you know:Our firm is not based within Merlin or Alton Towers Resort. Yes we are silenced on several fronts, these mainly refer to what exactly the SW7 part is and I wont be dragged into a conversation regarding this. I merely stated it is not a Gerst, as there is nothing in the confidentiality agreements which prevent us from naming the supplier. However the suppliers themselves are NOT allowed to disclose any details on the project in any way shape or form.In our job of consulting and design we regularly look over forums such as this so that we can see feedback and envisage how we will then feed this back to our clients, we work for various amusement park operators / providers and ride designers / manufacturers throughout the world. However as we have completed our end of the project this was signed off by us and is now upto Merlin & AT to carry forward.Meh, It's something interesting to read at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamY Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is far more interesting. How accurate it is is perhaps a question, but it's at least a nostalgic and fitting idea - from Sam on TTF: TowersTimes forum member Sam has written an article discussing the comparisons between SW7 and the old, now defunct, rollercoaster manufacturer Schwarzkopf. A Schwarzkopf rollercoaster was originally planned for the site were Nemesis stands now.Detailed plans have just emerged of a major new rollercoaster for Alton Towers. The last thrill coaster was around a decade ago. A long-dormant area will become home to a new ride of spectacular scale, with a length and duration never seen before at the Towers. The ride will feature duel-lifthills but only one track, with riders getting the chance to race… first against the riders ahead of them, and then race against the riders behind them. Although at first sight a huge tangle of track, elegant swooping curves can be made out on the plans, cutting into the landscape. The coaster is set to be the most expensive in Alton history, and be built by a top German manufacturer.The year is 1991. But it could easily be mistaken for 2012. At Alton, ideas have a funny habit of cropping up years later, sometimes the same, sometimes totally different. Maybe it’s what they used to call “the magic”. In 1994, the park Aquarium closed, to be reborn 15 years later as Sharkbait Reef. In 2004 the 3D Cinema closed down, while 2012 sees the opening of the park’s new state-of-the-art 4D cinema. And the Alton Mouse took its last riders in 1991, thirteen years before its spiritual successor Spinball Whizzer opened to the public. It’s often been said that at Disney “a good idea never really dies”, but it could just as easily be said of Alton. Now on its third iteration, the Nemesis brand seems to be a good idea that refuses to die!So we come back to our little-known Schwarzkopf, which I wrote a short piece about three years ago. For the 1991 season, Alton were looking for a big new ride. Their last really big coaster had been Corkscrew, but this was going to blow that out of the water. This was on another scale. This was, to quote Michael Pantenburg, to be “one of the biggest – let’s say – probably the biggest steel rollercoaster ever built (at) that time.” The rollercoaster, designed personally by Anton Schwarzkopf, was planned for the new Thunder Valley area. The site it would have occupied is now most famously home to Nemesis, though it almost certainly would have taken up some of the Blade, Ripsaw and Sub Terra sites as well.The planned ride.The ride was to be a sequel to Lisebergbanan, but bigger. The coaster would feature an absurd three lifthills, with two running parallel, much like the SW7 designs. Echoing Lisebergbanan, the ride was to use the terrain to its advantage, forming graceful arcing circles, helixes sending the trains spiralling through the trees. Unlike the eventually-built SW4, the ride would clearly have been a family-thrill coaster. Dispatching was to be synchronised, so trains climbed the double-lift together. If built, the ride could possibly have been Anton Schwarzkopf‘s magnum-opus, and the conclusion of his constant ambition to build bigger and more complicated and elaborate thrill machines. He retired in 1995, and sadly died in 2001 at the age of 77. Even by 21st century standards, his coaster would have been nothing short of epic.Unfortunately, this was around the time Schwarzkopf went into liquidation. Alton Towers had just been bought by Tussauds and their coaster-guru John Wardley decided to cancel the plans. Alarmingly for those concerned about the throughputs of SW7, Wardley has said of the 1991 project that “the idea was flawed because it assumed you could dispatch trains without any delays, however this is not always the case” and that “it would have been an operational disaster.” Still eager for a coaster on the site, he turned to Arrow and their pipeline designs, which formed the basis of Secret Weapon 1 and 2. Dissastisfied with Arrow’s awkward and clumbsy design, Wardley turned to bright new upstarts Bolliger & Mabillard, and after years of turmoil in the valley, a B&M inverted coaster finally opened in 1994. It was the third in the secret weapon series, with the seventh installment due in 2013. Today, Nemesis is regarded as one of the greatest rollercoasters of all time.Anton Schwarzkopf.It is now 2012, and very few enthusiasts would argue they’d have preferred the ’91 Schwarzkopf to the mighty Nemesis. But that isn’t to say it wasn’t a tremendous idea. Secret Weapon 7 is widely rumoured to be Wardley’s great swansong, so it seems fitting he should revisit the idea that he cast aside right at the start of his career. It is finally time for the great German beast to be built. As I have detailed in the first paragraph, the similarities are startling, especially the rare dueling-but-a-single-track concept (of which I can’t find any examples that don’t pass through a station before the second leg. It can’t be a coincidence that the only two attempts at this concept ever are at the same park). In 1982, former Schwarzkopf employee Hubert Gerstlauer left to set up his eponymous company who have grown huge recently with their popular Eurofighter design. During the slow demise of the once-mighty Schwarzkopf company during the late ’80s and ’90s, many of their best engineers and designers joined Gerstlauer and the company purchased much of the equipment and facilities of the defunct Schwarzkopf.This explains the similarity of Gerstlauer designs to many of Anton’s coasters, and many have argued that if Schwarzkopf were still in business today, this is the direction they would have taken. Gerstlauer are the spiritual successors to the great German company, although traces of Schwarzkopf can be found in Zierer and Maurer Söhne too. It is extremely likely the some of the designers and engineers who worked on Alton’s 1991 coaster still work for Gerstlauer and are involved in Secret Weapon 7. The original plans are probably also in the posession of the company or their employees. I don’t think the huge similarities between the two rides are a coincidence, given the chances that some of the same people have worked on both. Over two decades later, Gerstlauer finally have another shot at building their Alton masterpiece. The design has changed a little. The graceful swooping helixs are replaced with a selection of graceful, curving inversions. But the basics are still there, the length, the double-lifts, the dueling and the ambition. Wardley was definately proven to be on the right side of history when he cancelled the project in 1991. But it wasn’t a cancellation, merely a delay. The time is now right. It will be more insane than even Anton could have designed. Gerstlauer have finally proven they can produce world-class coasters. The Alton Towers German racing spectacular will finally be built.Any thoughts? I personally love this sort of thing, it would seem very fitting for Towers, JW and Anton as well.http://sw7.towerstimes.co.uk/177/secret-weapon-7-the-schwarzkopf-connection#more-177 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop.Liam quoted this on the previous page, and I'm quoting this on this page too, taken from the noise report.If nothing else, this gives us a very strong suggestion that SW7 is by Gerstlauer. To be quite frank, I'm getting slightly annoyed by loads of different forums arguing what manufacturer it is. There is one line in one of the more important reports that gives us a strong indication to the manufacturer, so where's all this argument of 'Oh, it will manufacturer x, y or z?' coming from!? I'm all for looking through the plans and working out things from them, but when we're more or less told something from the plans, where's all the 'Oh, the plans are wrong!!!!' coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornflakes Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Going on to the topic of the "Worlds first" Feature, I doubt it would be a vertical launch, because Wicked already has that covered: Also, if this ride does have a Vertical launch, then maybe the manufacturer could be Zierer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Going on to the topic of the "Worlds first" Feature, I doubt it would be a vertical launch, because Wicked already has that covered:No it doesn't. That is not in any way a vertical launch. It is a horizontal launch which then goes into vertical at speed - like nearly every launch coaster! (TTD, stealth etc etc etc). Don't be fooled by some fins on the vertical, they may give a small boost (doesn't look noticeable in that vid if it does), but by that point it is well and truly launched.I take vertical launch to mean (at least very nearly) stationary in the vertical, then shot upwards. That would be a completely different feeling, and one I'd love to experience. It would also be (as far as I am aware) a worlds first.Whether this is vertical launch or not? Can't decide, there are a few fors and againsts in the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepie Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 After a lot of thought, I'm going to express my thoughts about the proposed plans for SW7.I first glanced at them last week and was absolutely shocked when I saw the proposed layout and the general scale of the attraction they're aiming to build. That is quite a lot of coaster! Apart from that, there isn't really much else to go by. I noticed a lot of discussion about ride manufacturer and ride types, track in the station building, possible World's First elements and also the throughput of the attraction.At this current moment I await the finalised proposals for thematic style, scenic elements and general renderings of the surrounding buildings with quiet apprehension. There is a part of me that does feel as though this project is rushed. Sometimes when large scale projects such as these are rushed, the quality is compromised. What makes it so evident that the project has completely taken a U-turn is the apparent lack of any scenic drawings. From reading various forums, it seems as though the project was previously stated to be in a totally different location and presumably a different experience to what is being proposed now. Not that it I'm being negative, I just hope that appropriate care and pride is taken in the design, regardless of the project change.Throughput- like I said, that is a lot of coaster, with their current Euro-fighter design and 4 wide, 2 row cars, Alton will have an absolutely abysmal throuhput that is just not acceptable for any modern ride, let alone a major addition such as this. I know we cannot comment on what is inside the building, although, regardless of that, we're looking at large chunks of coaster without any block sections in between. Possibly in excess of 40 seconds. Therefore, I am convinced that we're to see a variation of ride car from Gerstlauer. As a complete and utter hypothetical situation, based on dispatches being made every minute (theoretically) A ride vehicle containing 16 people will provide a theoretical throughput of 960 an hour. Reduce that to every 45 seconds, then you have around 1200 an hour (quite resonable).The ride building itself has come under a lot of speclation about extra track and special elements. Just to continue the speculation, that building also needs to contain the ride shop, baggage rooms and from the looks of it also contains the maintainance area. It'd be a cool extra if there was anything inside here, however, I'd quite easily be happy if there wasn't. With a budget of £20M, this is a lot of cash to splash on a coaster from one of your cheaper companies. I hope the cash is spent well; possibly on an X-Sector refurb and also working with the right people to really give SW7 the great theme and story it deserves. It has the potential to ultimately explore X Sector's even more and be totally sinister. If done right, this will complement Oblivion perfectly and the two rides shall sit harmoniously in their area.The only really passing comments I have is that from the plans, it does look as though the layout has been slapped together as if you were having a funny 5 minutes on RCT/ No Limits and also I'm disappointed by the cattle-pen layout of the queue. This is where I feel extra care to the design could have been given. However, I do agree that the layout of the ride will be extremely intense and is a bold statement for Alton Towers to make, I hope it pays off for them! I'm hoping for some amazing interaction with the area plaza and this ride. There is certainly a lot of potential which hopefully with this ride's budget, can be executed with the amount of justice it deserves! JoshC., Will, Liam T and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just to throw this out here...Looking at the plans, after the vertical section of track, there's just a small dip in the track and then a turn, I believe? If so, that doesn't seem like the best of ideas to go into after a launch, whatever the speed - would feel very uncomfortable / neck-braking in my view.Just a point to make about this vertical launch section, which I hope doesn't happen if I'm honest.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDan Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 On Ride / Off Ride Simulation posted by Nemesis94 on TTF tonight, Shows everything on the plans excluding the launch and any indoor area which is rumoured as part of the ride... Liam T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam T Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Theming for SW7 has been released!The main feature theming ATheming feature B & CThe Station (which looks very much like a prison!)Merlin just keep getting better and better Sheepie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtjammy16 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 That spider-ish looking building is awesome :wub:Reminds me of war of the worlds & those machines in the incredibles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqvwxvCOSH4I feel an IP coming!! 'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Agree about the spider-like theming; looks phenomenal and very interesting. Hard to imagine the sheer scale of that thing in a way.. Also be interested about the lighting features and LED screens mentioned, and what will happen with that.Am I being dim, or are there no visuals of theming feature B released? Interested to see what happens there. Edit: Found them, looks great! :PAs for the station, I like it in a way, and dislike it in another. The worn down look seems to go against the 'clean but secret' idea that X-Sector has, though I assume there's a reason behind this. I'm hoping to see some sort of 'government facility gone wrong' theme, but what exactly I do not know.Nonetheless, loving the plans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPGG Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Very B&My looking track in the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Are those confirmed?If so... 100FT STATION?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam T Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 No idea where you got that from Sidders, but the station is smaller now and Yep come straight from the plans, more here http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?keyval=LWI1WJPG0D700&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=P3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepie Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I really don't know what to make of these just yet. Only seen the images on here and haven't done any further investigating. There's something suspicious about these plans and something I can't put my finger on. There looks to be quite a bit of corrugated metal around the maintenance building with a graphic on. All I'm getting from the station plans is an aged concrete fascia.I have high hopes for the attraction but at the moment I'm not completely sold on the themeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 No idea where you got that from Sidders, but the station is smaller now and Yep come straight from the plans, more here http://publicaccess....PERTY&module=P3The plans say the station structure peaks at 28.2m, which is 92ft to be exact. Seems awfully tall given the tiny area it's occupying.EDIT: No it's not I'm just blonde and reading them wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheepie Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 That's how long the station is, the station is 11.3M tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 That spider thing is RIDICULOUS... Like, who the hell thought that up? (in a good way)Was hoping that Blivvy wouldn't have too much limelight stolen from it... Turns out that was false hope Will 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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