The Crash Pad

[Pickles]

Has no one on this forum ever heard of profitability? Break even? Anything remotely to do with how to run a fecking business? Seriously I am fed up with oh the prices are ridiculous etc etc if it's what they are charging then it's what they are charging! There will be a reason behind it and you will just have to either like it or lump it! They don't just sit there and think oh how can we piss the enthusiast world off even more, I know let's raise the prices. We just came out of a reccession so yes prices will rise to gain our economy back so get over it!

[Mark9]

It is a discussion forum, if people want to comment on the pricing then they are allowed to.

[Pickles]

This would be a disscussion forum if people we're able to accept others opinions. This is a slate everything Thorpe does forum. I should have gotten someone else to post what I posted.

[JoshC.]

I think one thing which has surprised people is that the prices were MUCH higher than expected. When TPM had a Q&A session with Thorpe around the end of August / beginning of September (link - http://forum.maniahub.com/topic/9758-thorpe-park-snoozebox-details/), this was said:

Q) Roughly how much would a room be?

A) We hope rooms will start from £100 for 4 people (just £25 each if 4 people share!), however final pricing strategy has yet to be fully confirmed.

Of course, this was by no means final ("we hope", "yet to be fully confirmed"), but people would be expecting a similar price. Personally, I was expecting to see a maximum of £150 per room (not including tickets). When the park started marketing the Crash Pads at the beginning of October, it came to light that it would be from £56pp, and people were hopeful that would include breakfast and park tickets for all.

Now, we're looking at a minimum of nearly £69pp (based on 4 sharing). This comes with breakfast and 2 park tickets. So, say the 2 other people don't have AP and need tickets, and get a BOGOF. That's still over £20 extra for those two people. Unless I've misunderstood something with that; haven't really read the T&Cs to be honest...

So, I definitely think one reason for people complaining about the prices is that the possible prices have just gone up and up. It's no doubt taken people by surprise, annoyed some and such. The fact that you can stay in a "proper" hotel or get more included in other park packages for a similar price, or less, has also confused people and certainly made them question the need for the expense.

[Mark9]

This would be a disscussion forum if people we're able to accept others opinions. This is a slate everything Thorpe does forum. I should have gotten someone else to post what I posted.

You can't seem to accept peoples opinions that the hotel prices at the moment are too much. Spouting business and profitability doesn't mean people can't hold that opinion.

This is not a slate everything Thorpe does forum either otherwise we'd all hate the Swarm.

You could have got someone to post what you said and I'd have said the same thing.

[Pickles]

Mark9 you're just jel that I'm Number 1

I can accept that people have opinions but acting like Thorpe's done it on purpose, with the way the economy is at the moment prices will have to be higher.

[AstroDan]

Personally, I am just suprised that the B&B prices are similar to those charged by resort hotels at Chessington and Alton Towers. I just assumed they'd be a fair bit less.

[Deleted Users]

It's not as simple as "bad economy - high prices guys!". It's not even similar to theme park ticket economics.

True that thorpe can charge whatever they want but if it's too high, then occupancy will drop and in turn so will profits. I just think that for the first season at least, they are banking on the novelty.

[Benin]

But how many people pay the "on the gate" price?

BOGOFs are a major factor into gate figures, especially here, and with the ability to make BOGOFs look like exceptional value for money, it doesn't seem to make too much of a difference how many people visit the parks...

Of course, if BOGOFs were removed, we might well see a big old difference...

[Deleted Users]

Yeah, if you want to talk tickets, BOGOFs are a double edged sword because they are great advertising but their initial deal has become so easy to acquire that it becomes the real price in a sense. Devaluing a brand like this can be risky.

[pluk]

Has no one on this forum ever heard of profitability? Break even? Anything remotely to do with how to run a fecking business? Seriously I am fed up with oh the prices are ridiculous etc etc if it's what they are charging then it's what they are charging! There will be a reason behind it and you will just have to either like it or lump it! They don't just sit there and think oh how can we piss the enthusiast world off even more, I know let's raise the prices. We just came out of a reccession so yes prices will rise to gain our economy back so get over it!

What a very silly post.

Has no one on this forum ever heard of profitability? Break even? Anything remotely to do with how to run a fecking business?

Yes, have you? There are many ways to run a business and turn a profit. Merlin is currently owned by three parent companies, two of which are private equity venture capitalists and the other is an investment company which mostly owns Lego. The problem with this sort of funding is the investors want returns and they want them now, they get this by screwing as much profit from the business as possible (which they pay to themselves and remove from the company) without losing cash to investment.

An alternative way is to make a huge investment in something amazing and appreciate it will take a decade to pay for itself. The investors don't intend to be involved in 10 years time so don't care about and are reluctant to pay for something with that mindset.

Seriously I am fed up with oh the prices are ridiculous etc etc if it's what they are charging then it's what they are charging!

What do you expect people to say about it? People have made very valid points about alternative and equivalent options and the associated costs which would seem to be a sensible thing to do, rather than just ranting and having no real opinion of their own. Why do you think the price is reasonable? Do you even think it is reasonable? Will you pay it? You haven't actually bothered saying.

There will be a reason behind it and you will just have to either like it or lump it! They don't just sit there and think oh how can we piss the enthusiast world off even more, I know let's raise the prices.

The reason being they want to make money, which is fine. The point is, if they can not provide the service at a reasonable price people will be willing to pay then they shouldn't be installing the things. If people will actually pay these prices then good on them, but the general thought here is people won't, because the alternatives are better. Surely as enthusiasts all people here want is the best for the parks, for them to be successful and profitable so they can continue and improve? To see them making an investment that appears to be so flawed at these prices is frustrating. I don't see that anyone has suggested they have decided upon these prices to piss us off?

We just came out of a reccession so yes prices will rise to gain our economy back so get over it!

Just wow.

This would be a disscussion forum if people we're able to accept others opinions. This is a slate everything Thorpe does forum. I should have gotten someone else to post what I posted.

This is the one that really chaffed my pickles. What now? People have provided well thought out and reasoned opinions on this, whereas you have ranted without any opinion or reasoning. Your initial post came directly after a decent post from a member who has returned after a few months not being here. Reading your response I could expect him not to bother being here again, that's the sort of thing that could stop this being a discussion forum.

As I don't know who you are, it wouldn't have mattered in the slightest if you posted under another name, it would still have been a very silly post.

[Pickles]

You do realise you basically dissected my post and said essentially mostly what I said just more complicated? I don't mince my words or sugar coat it.

Mark9 you're just jel that I'm Number 1

I can accept that people have opinions but acting like Thorpe's done it on purpose, with the way the economy is at the moment prices will have to be higher.

I refer you that post where I specifically state what's grating on me about this topic.

Where was I ah yes, the whole being owned by 3 people etc etc now then if you're up for doing some background research then look up the Shadow Market and then come back to me and tell me all about investors wanting to gain their investment back then and there as most likely any investment they recieve heads straight to the dear Eastern markets.

The member in question will come back, they always do eventually.

[MarkC]

Very much off topic but have you seen how much shipping containers cost to buy!?!

Take this one on eBay for an example: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Shipping-Containers-/92079/I.html

Anyway I wonder If Thorpe Park have payed the cost of the snooze boxes in advance or are paying a certain percentage of profit?

[pluk]

You do realise you basically dissected my post and said essentially mostly what I said just more complicated? I don't mince my words or sugar coat it.

Not at all, you either didn't bother reading it properly or didn't manage to understand it. It's not about word mincing or sugar coating, it is about saying something with a point and with reasoning. Your initial post can be summarised as 'everyone else has said stuff to bash Merlin without reason', which belittles the reasoned opinions of others, adds nothing at all to the discussion and in fact just stifles it. You still haven't managed to give us your actual opinion on the crashpad and pricing.

I didn't refer to this

I can accept that people have opinions but acting like Thorpe's done it on purpose, with the way the economy is at the moment prices will have to be higher.

as it doesn't even make sense. 'Thorpe's done it on purpose'? What else do you think they've done, built and priced it accidently? The economy being poor doesn't mean prices will have to be higher, it will often mean the opposite. I'm no economist but that is just nonsense and explains nothing at all.

Finally,

The member in question will come back, they always do eventually.

if that is you attitude you have to other members when you are making abrasive and aggressive posts that are barely above spamming then I think it would be better all round if you didn't bother at all. This is nothing to do with having a different opinion or because of 'who you are', it is because your posts here are very poor, add noting and will stifle meaningful discussion. If you want to come back to this topic with an actual opinion on the crashpad then please do, otherwise don't and PM me if you have a problem with this. Thanks.

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Meanwhile, back in reality...

Very much off topic but have you seen how much shipping containers cost to buy!?!

Take this one on eBay for an example: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Shipping-Containers-/92079/I.html

Anyway I wonder If Thorpe Park have payed the cost of the snooze boxes in advance or are paying a certain percentage of profit?

They are crazy prices! I guess it is just because of the price of metal at the moment, that is probably about the scrap value of the metal itself. The snoozboxes must cost a fortune to make, but then they hold that value in the materials so it is quite low risk. where as if you build with bricks it is worth next to nothing when you knock it down.

I was under the impression Thorpe were kind of leasing the land out and just taking a slice of snoozebox profits, that might be wrong though.

[Fred]

Holly - issue here being that you just rant without any reasoning, or any logic behind it.

Everyones moaning, because they don't see sense behind it. I don't see sense behind it, and that's with connections and a background in business.

Why charge so much for what is essentially a travelodge? When your local B&Bs (oh, and travelodge) undercut them quite considerably. They're all rather easy to get to - even if you had to pay for taxi or another mode of transport.

So, they decide to price because of convenience. It's convenient to have a hotel on site - however, it needs to reflect true demand. Unless they do offers, people who will want to go to their clubs and late night will realise they save a fair bit for a slight inconvenience. People staying with no evening entertainment or late opening have even less of an excuse, with regular buses or transport to other forms of accomodation.

I think they're just pushed the convenience too much, without truely realising their market and competition. Maybe with these prices, they'll engineer "offers" to get people in, or just reduce prices anyway. Time will tell.

[AstroDan]

Another factor for me is that surely Thorpe Park's target market, principally young people including many of school age, simply won't have the money to spend on a night out like this?

Not to mention the fact that in no way is Thorpe Park a 2-day attraction (yet).

[pluk]

A further comparable service would be something like the Yotel. In the most premium space imaginable (actually inside airports) they look to be a little smaller but much better equipped room.

[apparently I am not allowed to use this image type on this community. Have a look at the photos and room plans in the link, they are quite stunning]

The price? Around £60 per night standard, £80 premium. Roughly what I was expecting the crashpad to be!

[Marc]

I guess we will see in the season how it pans out for them, but It's worth remembering this will be the result from many months / years of market research, the touch screens for example asked what you would be prepared to pay to stay per person.

I agree re the park isn't quite a 2 day thing yet, but as it gets busier and there are more and more night events I don't think it will be too long before it is

[d.m.k]

There really is no argument in trying to say these prices are justified due to the economy or location.

I stay at the Towers' hotels about 2-3 times a year and have always got a good deal - paying the same amount for these rooms at Thorpe, is just simply not acceptable.

I also believe a two day visit would only be needed during special events, most likely Fright Nights. I can't wait to see the prices for these dates though!

It's such a shame, I love Thorpe; I just think Snoozebox was the wrong decision.

[Pickles]

Okay Pluk, seeing as you seem to have the opinion that I don't know what I am on about.

Thorpe Park has now got 4 main things to make profit from. The food/shop outlets, fastrack, tickets and the hotel. Now then, the outlets will make an average profit each month and the Investors will know these from projected monthly income charts/spreadsheets/whatever, these each year may go up but won't change. Fastrack can change from day to day however there is a way and Thorpe have done this to predict the profit from these which is they will use the basic logic or this is how many we need to sell a day to gain this much profit. Which will be one of the reasons why they sell X amount of fastrack. Tickets, they can predict the profitability of tickets through expected gate figures, what they can't predict is how many people will use BOGOF so they have a wavering profit margin for tickets. Now onto the hotel, obviously due to knowing all this they may have put prices up as the investment they have put into the hotel most likely won't be paid off as quickly as they want so prices go up, now there are many reasons for this and one of the most likely would be the state of the economy.

Summary: Profits not enough = prices being higher for the hotel

Now onto the Private Equity Venture Capitalists, they will give Thorpe Park a set amount of money for investments, for this Snoozebox they will have given them a certain amount of money to invest now what Thorpe Park need to do now is turn it into profit to give the invested money back and make enough to gain them money to invest in running the hotel. Now then if Thorpe were to lower the prices they would have enough to pay the investment back but not enough to cover the costs that the park themselves incur such as running said hotel.

Summary: To be able to gain enough profit to pay the investor back and run the hotel = prices being higher for the hotel

One of my points was that a lot of the people on here have been making it out like Thorpe are doing it for their own greed, yes in a way they are but not as much as people think. Like I've just said to be able to pay the investors back then they need to make a pricing strategy that's sound enough to make them enough profit to cover costs and have some money left over to pay for other things they may want to do. Such as theming.

You keep asking for my opinion well my opinion is taking all of the knowledge I have I say that the price is right for gaining enough return on the hotel for a year, now if these prices were not to go down next year then I may have an opinion on it more. For now I say that it's the right price for getting a return on the investment to pay what they need back and to run the blasted thing.

As for your comment on you don't know who I am, my name is Holly, I've been on here since end of 2006, I was banned for a year and a bit and now I'm back, I changed my name so to separate my real life from here as I let my real life affect the way that I acted on here. I have an A Level in Business Studies and am currently studying at University on a HND in Business Studies.

Next time you try and make me out to be an idiot and try and publicly humiliate me which is what that just felt like. Find out a bit more about me. I don't usually back what I say up with facts because too be honest I am lazy, but try to fight me on Business which is a major passion of mine and it will annoy me. Please feel free to use PM and please feel free to complain about me all you want, it's nothing new to me as I come across as sarcastic and mean on the internet but I'm not like that in person so try not to personally attack me until you have actually met me.

[pluk]

Shame it was so hard to squeeze that well written, non ranty and reasoned post out of you, but we got there in the end!

I never set out to belittle, humiliate or personally attack you in any way. My role here is primarily to ensure people post within the guidelines but also to promote a healthy forum that people want to be part of. If you can not see your initial and subsequent posts (for reasons I've already pointed out) would not fall within that then you have a real problem, but I believe you can. You've just said you know you 'come across as sarcastic and mean on the internet', well don't then! I only commented that I do't know who you are because of your reply to Mark where you seemed to think he shot you down because of your past and not because of your post, well it was your post. There's clearly other bits in there but that's for a PM not here, but I'd just like to point out this was only done publicly because of your own responses bringing it here. If you are going to dish out that sort of aggressive post you are going to have to take it too, so don't feel sorry for yourself or put upon by me.

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Going back to the snoozebox, now you've described it I can actually see where you are coming from. But I still don't think it is right. It may well be they need to charge these prices to cover their investment, if that is the case I simply think it is a poor investment and one they shouldn't be making. An empty hotel makes no money and if those prices stay the same I fear that is what they are building.

[Pickles]

It's the whole push comes to shove argument, people will pay those prices to have the whole novelty of staying extremely near the park and any 'entertainment'* they offer and if you want to be honest most people are too lazy to drive to a near B&B etc. It's just convinence so they won't be building an empty hotel by any means.

[Fred]

Again, depends on the market really. They target a specific group which has been hit quite badly (and noted that they have: Read the mid-year merlin results on merlinentertainments.biz).

[BigBobJones]

At the end of the day it comes down to price and value for money, if you believe its good value, you will pay it, if you believe you are being ripped off, then you won't pay it.

I would never pay £45 to get into Thorpe, but the price of a MAP with all its benefits is very good value indeed and the current MAP offer makes a Thorpe AP look expensive, but it is in Merlin's interests for you to visit their many other attractions, rather than one.

When all I want is a bed for the night, I choose to stay in a Premier Inn rather than the Alton Towers hotel as I can't justify paying twice the price. The money saved can then be spent on ORP, food and travel expenses.

I have said this before, people will or should vote with their feet, if people don't pay the price, they will have to amend it. Just like Fast Tracks, while people pay the price, they will still charge it.

Others have said they will most likely do deals like BOGOF or book x days in advance and save x %

We will know by Easter if the Crash Pad is working or not to see if the prices changes and how many offers they try and throw out to fill the rooms.

[jjh123horry]

I dont know uf anyones seen this, but their only offering rooms from the 28th March. So their not actually opening the hotel from tje parks opening day.