EC! Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Yeah from a distance it might hamper the view of stealth but it doesn't really matter as long as it isn't like 10 ft smaller then stealth then there is no need to flap I mean the new ride will be nearly 50ft smaller the Stealth so it wont affect it that much, its just The Swarm blocks Stealth from the entrance but thats not to say the next coaster will because it will probably will be in a different less intrusive spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 From below they will both look massive. So does it really matter? pluk and FrightNights04 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Ok here's my thought on what the 2015/16 coaster should be and what amazes me is that nobody has mentioned it yet as far as I'm aware or even considered it as a possibility. A large scale B&M stand-up coaster with multiple inversions (on Riddler's Revenge sort of scale) As far as I know the only stand-up coaster in the UK to date is Shockwave @ Drayton Manor and that is made by Intamin and to be honest is rather underwhelming and doesn't last long enough not to mention the fact that it's rough and it's certainly a pale imitation of the ones across the pond. A B&M constructed such ride would offer a far smoother/comfortable ride yet more intense experience, I think the UK could really do with having another Stand-Up ride as it offers a very different experience to the traditional sitting down position and it's a quite rare experience outside of America. What's people's thoughts on this? OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Ok here's my thought on what the 2015/16 coaster should be and what amazes me is that nobody has mentioned it yet as far as I'm aware or even considered it as a possibility. A large scale B&M stand-up coaster with multiple inversions (on Riddler's Revenge sort of scale) As far as I know the only stand-up coaster in the UK to date is Shockwave @ Drayton Manor and that is made by Intamin and to be honest is rather underwhelming and doesn't last long enough not to mention the fact that it's rough and it's certainly a pale imitation of the ones across the pond. A B&M constructed such ride would offer a far smoother/comfortable ride yet more intense experience, I think the UK could really do with having another Stand-Up ride as it offers a very different experience to the traditional sitting down position and it's a quite rare experience outside of America. What's people's thoughts on this? Unfortunately, this is not true, Stand-Ups are just generally uncomfortable and unenjoyable... There are so many better options than a fad that happened in the late 90s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Unfortunately, this is not true, Stand-Ups are just generally uncomfortable and unenjoyable... There are so many better options than a fad that happened in the late 90s... But isn't any kind of new rollercoaster just a fad? How long before a Winged coaster becomes old hat?... It's never stopped theme parks from constructing older style rides before and a Stand-Up is still a relatively new concept, especially when compared to a Wooden, and surely there is no coaster less comfortable then a Wooden which rattles about and throws you around all over the place, most of my experiences of wooden coasters is that unless you have the foresight to be wearing a neck brace you can look forward to whiplash the next morning! Stand-Up's designed by Intamin then yes your right that could leave you sore even their sit down rides are brutal (take Colossus) but B&M are tried and tested to be very smooth and as comfortable as can be expected given the high G-force load on modern rides and Stand-Up's are no exception, plus Stand-Up's also give excellent airtime which was 1 of the points brought up earlier about why a Wooden or Mega Coaster would be a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC! Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Because the Last stand up coaster was built in the 90's when the last woodie was built this this year and the last megacoaster last year, those 2 types of ride are immensely popular because its a favourite with the enthusiasts and the GP alike I admit the last woodie built was 16 years ago but woodies are getting more and more popular as they have tonnes more airtime then a stand-up and same goes with a megacoaster. These are the only coaster types along with stand up that haven't been done and the reason why I doubt stand up very much is that in the most part they arent very well received, I haven't heard anyone say that Shockwave is fantastic because it isn't and most feel it uncomfortable atleast with woodies they have become smoother over the years and have more exciting layout and that is why most enthusiasts want a woodie because most not all but most are highly regarded Including the likes of Wodan, Megafobia, Tonnere De Zeus and Gold striker among the lot and again the same with megacoasters most are highly regarded unlike Stand ups which aren't. I know its preference that people do like stand ups but its one that will most likely will not happen. Plus Benin has been on a few so he and others know they aren't that comfortable. WOODIE ALL THE WAY for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I've been on Riddlers Revenge (and Mantis and Vortex, all B&Ms) as well as the obvious Shockwave, and they are all pretty much painful to experience due to the 'seating' position... There's not much in the way of airtime on a Stand-Up, especially comparing as mentioned to Wooden/Mega Coasters, and all it does is do loops in an 'unique' position... If there's one thing Thorpe doesn't need, it's more inversions... I just really don't see the point in bringing them back because even back in the day it seems that they never really took off (unlike the WingRider concept, whilst it is pretty much a fad, it's clearly being more successful than other concepts)... As for uncomfortable Wooden coasters, yep, those exist, but a lot of the modern GCIs are glass smooth, and in a lot of cases the ricketyness of the Wooden coasters gives them a personality completely aside from the steel coasters (unless they're an Intamin plug-and-bore)... There are rough B&Ms out there, just gotta find them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 "These are the only coaster types along with stand up that haven't been done and the reason why I doubt stand up very much is that in the most part they arent very well received, I haven't heard anyone say that Shockwave is fantastic because it isn't and most feel it uncomfortable" As I stated earlier this was because Shockwave was built by Intamin that's why it's uncomfortable to ride and offers a fairly average thrill factor anyway, but the Stand-Up's in America (Riddler's Revenge, Mantis) etc... are awesome and much smoother because B&M where the suppliers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I've been on Riddlers Revenge (and Mantis and Vortex, all B&Ms) as well as the obvious Shockwave, and they are all pretty much painful to experience due to the 'seating' position... There's not much in the way of airtime on a Stand-Up, especially comparing as mentioned to Wooden/Mega Coasters, and all it does is do loops in an 'unique' position... If there's one thing Thorpe doesn't need, it's more inversions... I just really don't see the point in bringing them back because even back in the day it seems that they never really took off (unlike the WingRider concept, whilst it is pretty much a fad, it's clearly being more successful than other concepts)... As for uncomfortable Wooden coasters, yep, those exist, but a lot of the modern GCIs are glass smooth, and in a lot of cases the ricketyness of the Wooden coasters gives them a personality completely aside from the steel coasters (unless they're an Intamin plug-and-bore)... There are rough B&Ms out there, just gotta find them... I've been on Riddlers Revenge (and Mantis and Vortex, all B&Ms) as well as the obvious Shockwave, and they are all pretty much painful to experience due to the 'seating' position... There's not much in the way of airtime on a Stand-Up, especially comparing as mentioned to Wooden/Mega Coasters, and all it does is do loops in an 'unique' position... If there's one thing Thorpe doesn't need, it's more inversions... I just really don't see the point in bringing them back because even back in the day it seems that they never really took off (unlike the WingRider concept, whilst it is pretty much a fad, it's clearly being more successful than other concepts)... As for uncomfortable Wooden coasters, yep, those exist, but a lot of the modern GCIs are glass smooth, and in a lot of cases the ricketyness of the Wooden coasters gives them a personality completely aside from the steel coasters (unless they're an Intamin plug-and-bore)... There are rough B&Ms out there, just gotta find them... I'm surprised you think that, Shockwave I can understand your point but I found Mantis in particular to offer a very smooth ride, all be it standing up naturally feels very unusual / unnatural but the track profile itself is far less bumpy and the B&M versions build up a lot more speed and higher G-forces as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC! Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) They may be more comfortable for you but they certainly aren't for others B&M ones included, they would never compete against the wing riders and like Benin said GCI woodies and from what I have heard RMC's for that matter are very very smooth rides so if I had to, I'd choose the woodie any day of the week plus they have tonnes more airtime. Edited September 4, 2013 by Marc No need for the back-seat moderating thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 Comfort on B&M stand-ups depends almost entirely on how much you screw up your bicycle seat. I really like Riddler's but their throughput would not be good enough for Thorpe in their current form. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 ^ Agree. I've only found standups painful when I've messed up my seat (due to my own stupidity). I enjoyed Vortex and Riddler's is a must do (for me) when at SFMM. Edit: () Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 ^ Agree. I've only found standups painful when I've messed up my seat (due to my own stupidity). I enjoyed Vortex and Riddler's is a must do (for me) when at SFMM. Edit: () LOL so there is hope then? Don't know why but I'm just itching for them to build a Stand-Up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I don't imagine Thorpe will want to venture into a tired old concept like the Stand-Up coaster. The last one that was built was (not including relocations) was in 1999. Why would Thorpe cast such a retrospective glance to a ride style that no park, not even low-budget ones upon building their first B&M (e.g. Adlabs Imagica, Ocean Park, Entertainment City) chose to build? Stand-Up Coasters died out 14 years ago, only ever resurfacing into public consciousness as Six Flags idiot about moving a couple between their parks. Thorpe won't build one - there's no demand and no marketing benefit. From a commercial and financial standpoint its simply not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted September 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I don't dislike stand ups as much as most in seems, they can be alright but never exceptional in my experience. I think there are plenty of better options out there. I wouldn't be so dismissive of Thorpe getting one though, they tick a few boxes. They are a self contained gimmick, their rarity means it is easy to get a 'x-est' of type aspect to market, the public have no idea it is a bit of a failed outdated concept, and most importantly of all John Wardley has said one of the alternatives to The Smiler which got a long way into development was a B+M stand up which didn't make it due to planning/ constraints rather than being rejected creatively. It seems clear Merlin consider a stand up a viable option for a new attraction, and maybe B+M have developed something new around the stand up concept if it was to be a SW? adstratt and Inferno 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I wouldn't say it's a failed concept, wasn't obvlion the only dive machine for some time time before they started popping up everywhere? It just depends what the park was to do with one, I wouldn't rule out any ride types just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 I think the issue with the Dive Machines was general cost due to the wider track/trains and the need for some decent extra landscaping (this of course depends on the park, as neither Griffon or Krake have a tunnel portion)... It was never that popular a concept unfortunately, as only 7 live in the world today and Krake (the smallest) cost a princely €12 million (SheiKra and Griffon costing $13-15 million approx as a comparison)... I think it just suffered from being an exceptionally pricey concept for something so simple (although the longest gap between rides was 5 years between G5 and SheiKra)... Interestingly, there are also only 7 Stand-Ups in the world... All in America (compared to 3 Dive Machines in Asia) weirdly... And the last NEW one (I.e. not one of the relocated 2 since they just got refurbs really) was built in 1999... That's a long, long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 RCDB <3 Sidders and Altitude 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Interestingly, there are also only 7 Stand-Ups in the world... All in America Shockwave at Drayton is a stand up coaster! I know it's not a B&M but it's still a stand-up. ste193 and EC! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 There's also the TOGO coasters as well, but the discussion was more on the B&M side of things so there was no need to count Shockwave (mainly because it's crap)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Fair enough, Shockwave is one of the rides that I haven't been on but want to (you call it crap, but you call the Big One crap and it's my favourite coaster so I might enjoy it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamcoasterLOFC Posted September 5, 2013 Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 Fair enough, Shockwave is one of the rides that I haven't been on but want to (you call it crap, but you call the Big One crap and it's my favourite coaster so I might enjoy it!) Trust me you won't like Shockwave - Benin was right it really is just ****e lol :-( I agree that Big One is great though, cant see why anyone can criticize that, ok it's abit rough and ageing now but it's just an awesome thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 Not everyone has the same opinion on coasters. Ride Shockwave and make your own opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 I actually enjoy shockwave as it gives a completely different experience... not saying it isn't uncomfortable and slightly painful at times, and also to mention how short it is. from what I've heard about B&M standups having a better restraint system & being smoother... I would love to see one as the next major investment at either Alton or Thorpe, or at least in the not too distant future - I think a standup, conisdering they would have a longer length than shockwave, would be a great addition adding a different aspect of rollercoaster to the list of the park and possibly make less people go to drayton manor, and try and cut out competition with them having the better standup. (this then would bring it to the situation, which park is a standup best suited to, thorpe or alton, considering how close it is to drayton manor!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 6, 2013 Report Share Posted September 6, 2013 It's been a while since I've done a B&M variant but I think the only major difference in the restraints is that the OTSRs aren't split up... Still have the burdenous bicycle seat of burden, and unless they can get rid of that, then it'll still be uncomfortable (though nothing will be as bad as Apocalypse and the brakes of genital death)... I don't think Thorpe getting one would affect Drayton's attendance, since they've gone full on towards the family and have the draw of Thomas Land... The two of them both really more focus on the local people rather than nationwide, even if both have recently expanded their 'resort' status... There are just better options that have received high levels of praise across the board from various different manufacturers over a Stand-Up... It bemused me that Towers were looking at one for Katanga Canyon at one point recently, but I guess because of the Varney's obsessive nature towards the GIMMICK of a coaster it's too be expected... OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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