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An interesting question with a few answers. First off, to answer you concern: it was nothing to do with it being "too extreme". There wasn't enough serious complaints from guests who did it to warrant its removal. Frankly, I don't even know if there were any complaints - everyone knew what they were getting themselves in for. These sorts of experiences have a niche market (albeit, Thorpe and Towers' alone experiences expanded and simultaneously watered-down the niche). A short answer: There wasn't a strong enough drive internally to get it to come back. Devising the experience takes time (it wasn't simply "actors do whatever they want"), and there was no one who was in a position (in terms of the time-commitment required) to create it. There had been some backlash from actors about the experience who didn't feel comfortable doing it (something I'll go into later), plus it could add another hour onto an already very long day, where they have to work 10x harder. Those two together meant it just wouldn't get off the ground. A long answer: Less of an answer, and more of a story.. Face it Alone came about in 2013, with the park trying to diversify their line up and really focus on becoming a bigger, better and more unique Halloween event. The Lionsgate IP bought in the brands and the interest, completely refreshing the concept of Fright Nights. They tried new maze concepts: choices (Cabin in the Woods) and outdoors (Blair Witch Project). They introduced a (sadly poorly received) overnight experience, which was trendy at the time, and pushed forward with the Face it Alone: an extreme and an alone experience in one; again something which was trending and on the up in the scare industry at the time. For anyone that did it in 2013, you'll no doubt know that every experience was different. The actors were given a scope of things they could do, boundaries they could push and ideas they could toy with. It was free-reign, but it gave the actors a much freer realm to work in. Another important thing to note is that Face it Alone wasn't particularly popular in 2013. People were unsure what exactly it was, whether it was worth the £15, etc. You could also choose which maze to experience. Which all in all meant it was easier to organise, give a personal touch, etc. When 2014 came along, the experience changed somewhat. Whilst it was still 'extreme', the actors stuck to much stricter roles. Basically, actor 1 did x to you, actor 2 did y to you, etc. By no means a bad thing (if planned correctly, this can be a very good thing), just different. Again, this year you could choose your own maze and, whilst it had gained popularity, it was still pretty calm. 2015 is when everything changed, and was arguably the beginning of the end. Face it Alone became a much bigger spectacle. Gone were the days of choosing your own maze, and it was instead replaced with the Roulette Ceremony by Big Top. A great idea in fairness, and one that many enjoyed. This meant it garnered more attention and became much more popular, and went outside of the niche. Already teetering on the edge here. 2015 did go back to 2013's free realm style too. There were clearly things that certain actors had to do at certain points to progress you through the experience, but in between actors had a very large scope of what they could do. The next thing with 2015 was the overt sexualisation of the experiences. It's probably not suitable to discuss the details on a public forum, but many things done within the experiences weren't scare tactics, they were simply there sexualised things made to make people feel uncomfortable, humiliated and uncertain. This was the first year that a safe word was introduced too. Safe words do appear in many extreme attractions, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a safe word appeared at the same time the sexualised content of Face it Alone occurred. This was a completely different direction to what had happened before. Whilst Face it Alone may have featured things like nudity/being tied up/etc - ie things that COULD be sexualised - they never WERE. By doing so, it adds a very different tone. And this tone meant that people were enjoying these experiences in a very different way. There were plenty of times that people within Face it Alone experiences were asking for certain things to be done to them so that they could 'get their money's worth' and be satisfied with the experience. These sorts of things had happened in previous years, but not to the degree they had happened in 2015. This, unsurprisingly, led to some actors being rather uncomfortable with the experience. Come 2016, things had been toned down again. It went back more to 2014's "carbon copy" style experience. Originally it led to some complaints that it wasn't as extreme. I think one issue was that the 2015 version of Face it Alone had created a following of people who hadn't experienced extreme attractions outside of Face it Alone, so they had a very set idea of what should happen. When this didn't happen, it lead to that sort of backlash. Getting the balancing act right likely proved hard. And yet there were still people asking for certain things to be done to them, etc. Then 2017 came along, there had been a feeling of discomfort for a while from some actors. The experience had expanded too far out and wasn't something that could be controlled and marketed as it should. People changed roles. The amount of work required to hit that sweet spot was ever-growing, for perhaps diminishing returns. Fright Nights also focused on The Walking Dead, and AMC are known for very strict guidelines about their attractions. Working out a Face it Alone experience for those mazes would have been near-on impossible. So everything together just meant it didn't happen, and it hasn't returned since. And that's that. New external IP, internal concerns and arguably a bit of apathy/running out of steam all really finished it off. Maybe in the future it can return. With the AMC contract disappearing soon that would help. Seeing the extreme version of Creepy Caves at Chessington being a success probably helps. But it requires a lot of work, a lot more than many perhaps realise and appreciate. And I'm not sure I could see it happening soon.

I guess ultimately it would always be down to opinion anyway as I find the opposite to Mark 9. I rode it many times in its previous format always remembered them seeming great at the time, but having ridden The Bat and Iron Dragon, I found them to be both fairly dull (although The Bat was by far the better of the two) Having come back and ridden Vampire just 6 days later I felt the floorless trains were better all round bar the look/theme. Again just my opinion.

I don't think there's going to be any reliable eye-witnesses here, we're talking about trains that left two decades ago now. I remember riding it but I couldn't tell you with any pin-point accuracy what it was truly like, all I have to go on is riding similar like Vortex, Ninja and Iron Dragon and how those trains ride. I much prefer the Arrow trains to the Vekoma ones. Vampire is a somewhat unique case as its pacing is all over the place anyway whereas Vortex and Ninja in particular don't have that issue. The older trains have a more erratic feel to them.

Also, speaking of the SImworx website, the page they have dedicated to Ghost Train still has some lovely PS1 graphics... Looking back you do really have to wonder what was going through everyone's minds to sign that off.

Simworx were the turnkey provider for the experience. My understanding of the situation is that they were approached for the project (after Merlin and Thorpe had a good experience with them with Shrek in London and Angry Birds 4D) and were asked if they felt they could provide what was wanted, since it was a very unique project. I'm sure at the point when Simworx agreed to the project, VR had already been decided / was in the closing stages for been confirmed. I've heard differing stories about why Severn Lamb were bought in. As Marc says, they designed the trains, but one version of events I heard was they were bought in because they had experience building trains, so were better to provide more realistic-looking carriages. The other version is that, despite saying they would, Simworx didn't want to design enclosed carriages (most of their carriages are open in design) so they sub-contracted Severn Lamb to do it. Similar conflicting stories exist about why Intamin were bought in. On top of that, you've then got Figment Productions designing the VR and having their own needs for executing it. They very much worked closely with Merlin/Thorpe and probably had little contact with Simworx/Severn Lamb. So it's not hard to imagine a situation where Figment were telling something to Merlin, who told something to Simwork, who told something to Severn Lamb, and the original message getting muddled along the way. Basically, it's all a mess. The ride system that Simworx did could still be replicated elsewhere without VR, I guess. At one point during Ghost Train's construction there were murmurs that Merlin wanted a similar experience for Gardaland. The question is why would anyone want it. If you took the generic immersive tunnel set up (ie huge screens outside the carriage) and modified it to Ghost Train's style, it just sounds like a nightmare. And just not an enjoyable experience. It could probably be scaled down with a longer track circuit, but again the question is why. If you look through Simworx's website, there's not a lot of theme park projects they've worked on, especially recently. A lot of their recent stuff is on a small scale, with a lot of concepts for ideas too. Given how much competition there is for dark rides, cinemas and stuff like that in the theme park industry, it does make you wonder if simply they're not cut out for making large-scale theme park attractions. They certainly had some potential, and parks did go to them at first, but when most aren't, there's surely a reason behind it.

Ahh my bad - the windows were initially supposed to mist up I believe during different points so you wouldn’t see what’s behind the scenes if you didn’t have VR on - but the reflections from the windows would mess with the VR so they were in the end just covered up. I believe simworx ultimately manages the entire project but the most part of it was built by different manufacturers - probably not helping ultimately in all the problems. I don’t think the VR was added late as a marketing gimmick - the concept of a train with screens in the window wouldn’t really work on ghost train as you’d be awkwardly looking at a screen somones sat infront of - unless you only had people one side but that would end in a ridiculously poor throughput. Yeah there was problems with VR contributing to the delay but by no means is VR it’s only issues - it’s a shame really as when the entire experience works as it’s meant to I still do think it’s good, it could have varied a lot more had it been a success to keep it fresh - it’s just so rare the whole thing works as an entire package.

I can see that leg ticklers wouldn't really work, you'd see them as you board before the lights go out (they're just flexible tubing). The screens, fog and all that are what's interesting, I wonder how much was actually installed before being removed or just mothballed. There must be a solution to using the ride system to its full potential as a simulator ride. It's the designers' job to come up with a solution and make it work as an experience, but it would take money not a quick rehash with some actors. Also as far as I know (might be wrong) Simworx built it without VR in mind to be rolled out to other parks in the future. It would be a shame to waste the ride system which was by far the best thing about the ride in my opinion.

I would absolutely love for them to effectively make a documentary about the experience. Whilst it has fallen flat and is a failed experiment, there's still a ton of thought, effort and work that went into it from a variety of different parties. Even just the designing of the experience, communicating what they were trying to accomplish would be interesting. Then seeing how it all works - a kind of grand reveal of how a magic trick works - could be great too. I'm sure a lot of people would be underwhelmed to see how it works, but it's still interesting all the same. I doubt we'll ever get anything that in depth. Even a longer video of how the ride system works feels like a stretch. But we can still dream.

If it is totally closed I hope they film the experience in action from all angles. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Dear TPM members It is with regret that I announce the cancellation of all TPM meets for the foreseeable future. However, it is only fair that we think of the health and safety of all our members and the general public. Once things calm down we will come up with a new plan. Let's hope we get through this crisis sooner rather than later and can all enjoy social events and the one thing we all love, visiting theme parks! Thank you for your understanding. Matt Quote

Thank you Matt for keeping us updated. These are indeed strange and challenging times we live in, but hopefully one day we can look forward to seeing these meets running again soon.

2013 face it alone Asylum... I cant imagine how scary that must have been. Id give anything to do that. As for guests being all creepy and sexual, I feel being tied and **** like that kind of gives opportunity for things to take a different path down that direction. So perhaps if they remove any things that could be interpreted sexually then Face it Alone could be less of an issue. Hopefully it'll return one day as I think it hits the spot for guests who don't find ordinary maze experiences particularly scary anymore... Great answer from Josh...