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An interesting question with a few answers. First off, to answer you concern: it was nothing to do with it being "too extreme". There wasn't enough serious complaints from guests who did it to warrant its removal. Frankly, I don't even know if there were any complaints - everyone knew what they were getting themselves in for. These sorts of experiences have a niche market (albeit, Thorpe and Towers' alone experiences expanded and simultaneously watered-down the niche). A short answer: There wasn't a strong enough drive internally to get it to come back. Devising the experience takes time (it wasn't simply "actors do whatever they want"), and there was no one who was in a position (in terms of the time-commitment required) to create it. There had been some backlash from actors about the experience who didn't feel comfortable doing it (something I'll go into later), plus it could add another hour onto an already very long day, where they have to work 10x harder. Those two together meant it just wouldn't get off the ground. A long answer: Less of an answer, and more of a story.. Face it Alone came about in 2013, with the park trying to diversify their line up and really focus on becoming a bigger, better and more unique Halloween event. The Lionsgate IP bought in the brands and the interest, completely refreshing the concept of Fright Nights. They tried new maze concepts: choices (Cabin in the Woods) and outdoors (Blair Witch Project). They introduced a (sadly poorly received) overnight experience, which was trendy at the time, and pushed forward with the Face it Alone: an extreme and an alone experience in one; again something which was trending and on the up in the scare industry at the time. For anyone that did it in 2013, you'll no doubt know that every experience was different. The actors were given a scope of things they could do, boundaries they could push and ideas they could toy with. It was free-reign, but it gave the actors a much freer realm to work in. Another important thing to note is that Face it Alone wasn't particularly popular in 2013. People were unsure what exactly it was, whether it was worth the £15, etc. You could also choose which maze to experience. Which all in all meant it was easier to organise, give a personal touch, etc. When 2014 came along, the experience changed somewhat. Whilst it was still 'extreme', the actors stuck to much stricter roles. Basically, actor 1 did x to you, actor 2 did y to you, etc. By no means a bad thing (if planned correctly, this can be a very good thing), just different. Again, this year you could choose your own maze and, whilst it had gained popularity, it was still pretty calm. 2015 is when everything changed, and was arguably the beginning of the end. Face it Alone became a much bigger spectacle. Gone were the days of choosing your own maze, and it was instead replaced with the Roulette Ceremony by Big Top. A great idea in fairness, and one that many enjoyed. This meant it garnered more attention and became much more popular, and went outside of the niche. Already teetering on the edge here. 2015 did go back to 2013's free realm style too. There were clearly things that certain actors had to do at certain points to progress you through the experience, but in between actors had a very large scope of what they could do. The next thing with 2015 was the overt sexualisation of the experiences. It's probably not suitable to discuss the details on a public forum, but many things done within the experiences weren't scare tactics, they were simply there sexualised things made to make people feel uncomfortable, humiliated and uncertain. This was the first year that a safe word was introduced too. Safe words do appear in many extreme attractions, but I don't think it's a coincidence that a safe word appeared at the same time the sexualised content of Face it Alone occurred. This was a completely different direction to what had happened before. Whilst Face it Alone may have featured things like nudity/being tied up/etc - ie things that COULD be sexualised - they never WERE. By doing so, it adds a very different tone. And this tone meant that people were enjoying these experiences in a very different way. There were plenty of times that people within Face it Alone experiences were asking for certain things to be done to them so that they could 'get their money's worth' and be satisfied with the experience. These sorts of things had happened in previous years, but not to the degree they had happened in 2015. This, unsurprisingly, led to some actors being rather uncomfortable with the experience. Come 2016, things had been toned down again. It went back more to 2014's "carbon copy" style experience. Originally it led to some complaints that it wasn't as extreme. I think one issue was that the 2015 version of Face it Alone had created a following of people who hadn't experienced extreme attractions outside of Face it Alone, so they had a very set idea of what should happen. When this didn't happen, it lead to that sort of backlash. Getting the balancing act right likely proved hard. And yet there were still people asking for certain things to be done to them, etc. Then 2017 came along, there had been a feeling of discomfort for a while from some actors. The experience had expanded too far out and wasn't something that could be controlled and marketed as it should. People changed roles. The amount of work required to hit that sweet spot was ever-growing, for perhaps diminishing returns. Fright Nights also focused on The Walking Dead, and AMC are known for very strict guidelines about their attractions. Working out a Face it Alone experience for those mazes would have been near-on impossible. So everything together just meant it didn't happen, and it hasn't returned since. And that's that. New external IP, internal concerns and arguably a bit of apathy/running out of steam all really finished it off. Maybe in the future it can return. With the AMC contract disappearing soon that would help. Seeing the extreme version of Creepy Caves at Chessington being a success probably helps. But it requires a lot of work, a lot more than many perhaps realise and appreciate. And I'm not sure I could see it happening soon.

So due to boredom I have decided to make a thread to rank the Merlin Parks. This will be by recent investments and just how each park fall in the hierarchy. I think this will be a lot harder than Cedar Fair and Six Flags as Merlin is pretty even with their parks tbh. I'm gonna be ranking all of the abroad parks but I will lump the Legoland's into one category because ranking them individually would take a while. A Tier: Alton Towers Easily the most loved Merlin Park. When this park receives a coaster, its usually very high quality and unique. They usually have good in between years to boot, with constant money being thrown into their hotels, the resort, and into their family and kiddie offering. This year's addition is a real good example of a solid intermediate investment and Wickerman back in 2018 was an amazing investment for the park. This park is only behind Legoland in attendance in the UK, and with that you can expect a great new coaster here soon. B Tier: Legolands (all of 'em) These parks are absolutely everywhere. There is 9 currently, and more are coming. They are really a strong point for Merlin, they draw in a lot of families and must make the company a stupid amount of money. They have a simple but fun IP, and they usually receive a fair amount of investment to keep the masses of families coming in. These usually are not coasters, but if you look at Legoland Windsor's investments in the past 10 years its surprisingly respectable. A bunch of brilliant medium sized investments that give the park a pretty decent lineup of dark rides. As stated, Legoland Windsor has the highest attendance in the UK, these parks bring in the crowds. C tier: Gardaland I was going back and forward for this placement, but then I saw Gardaland's attendance and nearly spat out my coffee. I think this park gets kinda overlooked due to its shaky coaster lineup, but Gardaland drew in 2.9 million people in 2018. That is a incredible amount in comparison to other Merlin Parks. The park hasn't received a big coaster since 2015, though the additions certainly haven't been bad either and I could see this getting some good investment in the future. No wonder the park decided to add 2 B&M's to this place with gate figures like that.. Heide Park: This park has had decent investment in the past decade, actually pretty much ditto to Gardaland. Other than that they revived their Intamin pre-fab woodie, so that was cool I guess. I think with Colossus back this park is very ready to continue to compete with Hansa down the road. Though it is lower than Gardaland due to its attendance not being as impressive. D Tier: Chessington: Chessington have had a decent enough past 5 years or so to keep them out of rock bottom. Now this park just generally is a smaller park and I think is seen as such by Merlin. Recently they have been improving their old rides (bar Tomb Blaster) and dragging them into the modern era. Tiger Rock is a fun redo of Dragon Falls, and Gruffalo is much better than Bubbleworks was in its final years. They received a mini log flume this year, and next year they are replacing the problematic Rameses with a fun looking drop tower. Overall Merlin seems to be interested in keeping this park decent and fresh enough. Even if its just with small rethemes or small additions. Either way its a much better position to be in that the park below it. F Tier: Thorpe Park: If I made this list in 2012, this would be A Tier. Every investment they have gotten since then has lead this park to its current state. What has the park done since 2012? Added a huge failed mess of a dark ride, added another room to it that sometimes works as a good finale? Lost their best family ride in Loggers, lost their second best family ride in X by converting it to something scary which now means their mild Vekoma coaster is now back to low ridership.. Basically a whole lot of nothing. And the park seems really like the last in the queue for any major investment in the future. It is a shame as the park has a pretty relaxed location when it comes to permits, and the park has a fair amount of space they could utilise if they wanted to. But this park I think will remain the park that receives small investments that fail in the long-haul (Black Mirror next yay!) Anyway feel free to rank the parks, I'm interested to see what people's opinions are. I think Merlin parks are actually quite hard to rank tbh, as investment wise they kinda spread out their money. Like Thorpe is at the bottom of my list but that could change big time in 5 years.

Actors could literally grab you,push you,pull you,swear at you,carry you,cover you in all sorts of stuff like water and powder to name but a few. It was a complete departure from the feel of doing a standard go through the mazes during regular hours. It was an intense experience when it was at it's peak and was a good addition to the event while it was about

While the correct answer to what should have been built instead of BDGTROTD is 'anything', thinking about what we could have had for that much money is heartbreaking really. I've no doubt a small scale ride based on the Spiderman ride system could have been in reach, or any number of other options. That money can't be unspent, the opportunity has gone.

Funny how just 1 year later those "early days" were gone and the graphics infinitely improved. Swap out "early days" for "cheapest option" and you'd be more correct

Want something extreme, go and sign up for Mcamey Manor 😂. Search it on YouTube at your own discretion if you don't know what it is!

The issue is, being tied up is a great - and easy - way of turning up the intensity of an attraction. Restricting movement, going to the next stage of the touch barrier, etc. It all works, and a large quantity of intense scare attractions do it. I think the challenge that faced Thorpe was that it hit a slightly wider audience than it should. Particularly theme park enthusiasts and the like. When many people get introduced to extreme experiences, they never know what to expect. So when a large number of people experienced the 2015 iterations, it gave a very specific idea of what extreme attractions were and what they could do. Unlike in 2013 and 2014, when people stuck to the encouraged 'don't tell anyone about the experience', plenty of people were online saying "I did Face it Alone, I had x, y, z done to me". This then led to people wanting x,y,z done to them, and going so far as asking for requests. And from there it's a slippery slope.. For now, Chessington's Creepy Caves After Dark is probably bang on the money for what should be offered for people wanting a mainstream extreme experience. I sadly didn't get the chance to do it, but from what I've heard, it ticks all the right boxes. Hopefully it sticks around. But again, like with Face it Alone, there was a small team that was very dedicated to getting it just right, and worked extremely hard in doing so. Clinic at Walibi Holland is a very isolated case and I don't think it could ever happen in any other theme park. The staffing levels required for it are insane to start off with - I'm fairly certain that one person will interact with about 20 actors during their alone experience. And I'm sure there's more actors too. They then have people operating and overseeing the experience (effectively like hosts and operators on a ride), etc. And because of the type of attraction it is and the scares needed, you need a strong cast to do it. From what I hear too, last year's event still had quite a few actors who were there in its first year, and every year since. That's something which is less and less common for many Halloween events. Walibi Holland has built a huge name for itself in its Halloween event and pumps an insane amount of money into it. They can afford a ton of actors, and there's not enough local competition that they risk losing seasonal actors, which means they can risk investing in training them more. Somewhere like Thorpe has a higher staff turnover when it comes to actors (though a lot still do return year-on-year in fairness) thanks to higher local competition for actors, and other factors. They also don't have as strong a name built for themselves compared to even the like of Tulleys, so more talented people are tempted by them for example. So it would be a huge risk for Thorpe to introduce something even vaguely like Clinic. Don't get me wrong, something like that would be great for Thorpe and I'd love to see it. But I don't see it happening. An in-hours alone experience could be similar to Containment, no? Market it as what it is, have it as a ticketed attraction, etc. Plenty of people would just brush it off, and enough people would be interested by it. Make it a premium product and charge a premium price and it'll be fine as long as it's not at the expense of a normal attraction. The issue at Thorpe is they wouldn't have the resources available to make it a premium alone experience.

Anyone else thinking that DBGTROTD is going to be the big casualty on opening post Coronavirus? I can't envisage a time in the next few years when people are going to be happy sticking something over their face that some other sweaty punter has just removed? Considering it's an absolute dog in any case do we think they'll take it as an opportunity to out it out if it's misery in its current form and turn it into a VR free immersive tunnel, or just rip it out completely and put a proper ride in its place?

I think it is such a shame more isn’t made of looking at the suspended carriage. I don’t understand why they got Derren to pose from this angle when we never get to see if from there. Would be awesome to start off looking up and then going up the stairs. Sent from my iRon using Tapatalk Pro

I first rode Derren Brown's Ghost Train in 2017. I've made my feelings clear about the very muddled story in this thread before, but I ultimately did find it a flawed but generally enjoyable ride. Not worth a long queue or the money spent on it, but it was fine. Fast forward to Fright Nights 2019, and oh boy have my feelings changed. The queue for the ride was advertised as a 50 minute wait. Ok, that's fairly long but it was Fright Nights and everything was busy. 60 minutes later we were still not in the batching area. In the 30 minutes that followed, we saw only 3 batch groups enter. One every 10 minutes! Really?! I know this ride isn't great with capacity, but I cannot understand operations being this bad. The pre show was as boring and disconnected from the experience as usual, but at least it all worked. Once it ended we moved onto the next waiting area and waited. And waited. And waited. We were there for 5 minutes. Worsening the wait was that the room is lightly themed with no music (I thought IMA score made 90 mins of music, and yet it plays only in the queue, why?) and we were waiting with the worst actor / staff member they could find. This preemptively killed any momentum the pre show gave the experience. Despite the lengthy wait, when we did move into the hanging carriage room we were hurried through to board. This room is probably the only decent bit of the ride and yet we barely got to experience it. Genius move Thorpe. Genius. Once onboard we had VR segment one. It was fine, but very little happens really on reflection (it occurs to me that the whole VR segments contain 2 'ghosts' in total, which is ridiculously low). After the VR segment we were asked to wait on the train for a bit. At this point we all sat in the awkward and silent carriage. No music, nothing. People around us muttered "is that it?" and "that was s***". We eventually moved into the abysmal middle section. There were no sound effects or music. We all wandered around an empty set of cages and then (would you believe it) we reached the end and waited for ages. In silence....again. Eventually we went into the 2nd VR segment and saw the final of the two 'ghosts' of the experience. The segment was fine. Once over we went into the shop for the fake-out finally. We waited there for ages before anything (what a shocker). When it did begin we merely got a man in a t-shirt rather than a demon. Really?! This ride was ok at first but now it is utterly abysmal. There is NO sense of theatrics at all anymore. In 2017 there was a serious effort to keep the pace going and maintain some story. There was an energy from the actors and the middle section was seemingly the glue that held it all together. Now there were awkward silences, confusion and waiting it was an embarrassment and I struggle to see how anyone enjoys it in it's current state (if anyone does I'd love to know why). Judging from the people in my train the public seem to hate it.

I have a simpler solution. ...DEMOLITION.

Second ever ride on the train for me today, first in its ROTD guise. It's fair to say there have been improvements over the first effort. - The sound is hugely better and isolating - The graphics seem smoother, if just as low quality - The second ride VR section is much better than playstation 1 apocalypse - The post show incident gives the ride its only opportunity to provide an actual scare, and goes some way to delivering it But it is nowhere near enough to save this utter turkey - Throughput is minuscule, queuing is ssllllooooowwwww and not close to worth the reward of riding - The staff approach is all over the place. Real aggressive introduction about phone use, not sure if that is supposed to be a 'character' or just a real obnoxious way to make a point? - The second room 'pre-show' immediately prior to the train entrance is downright bizarre. A stumbling attempt to be jokey, bring someone from the front to the back, do nothing with them, clap them(?), bang a door, go through the door. WOT? A pre-boarding stall I imagine, but just in every way possible from pacing to storytelling to atmosphere to point, utterly wrong. - The 'middle-show' is immeasurably worse. The old concept of being in a tunnel with no obvious way out and simulate a train approaching was actually a really good idea poorly done. Walking into a dark room where nothing happens before being turned round to walk back out of it is a really bad idea poorly done. Getting on and off the train doesn't even make sense in the narrative any more. - The second VR I can't quite get my head around. Augmented reality would have been hugely better rather than pretend augmented reality, but whatever. This breaks the fourth wall of suspension of belief the ride is asking us to make; the whole point seemed to be that the hyper reality of the simulation of being on a train would be the driver behind messing with your mind in that relate-able, mundane situation. You are now looking at people, like you, who are clearly on a theme park ride of a train, not an actual underground train. What am I supposed to do with this in the context of the narrative? - While we are on the second VR, the image quality as a whole is better than it was, but why is the main character we are supposed to scared of so poorly defined? For the most part it is an indistinguishable fuzzy blob floating around the screen about as menacingly as a rain cloud. - The laboured situation and 'acting' to hold people in the post-show goes a long way to ruining an otherwise decent effect. They may as well put up a big flashing sign saying 'wait a mo, something else is going to happen'. There must be a better, more natural way. Overall, there is no getting away from the fact that the whole thing is an ACTUAL TRAIN SIMULATOR. Not a rocket to the moon. Not a flight on an X wing. Not dive in a submarine. Not a time travelling jump in a Delorean. Why? I can get on a train, I don't need it simulated. I want fantasy. There is nothing fantastical about this Ghost Train. I honestly do not think it is rescuable. It's sad, but the whole concept is so deeply flawed I really feel the best thing to do would be to rip it out and start again. At the moment it is just a very expensive way to damage your brand and reputation.