daboywunda

In fairness, the only way they could have communicated differently is instead of the wording being "we cannot commit to opening before 8th" - which is in itself reasonable and transparent (more than we would have seen from Thorpe in the past), instead using the wording "we will update you around the 8th" instead. Other than that, I don't think Thorpe are in winnable position regardless. People are gunna hate if they gave a date, didn't give a date, blamed Mack, blamed God, Blamed the Tories - basically anything other than the ride opening is going to peeve people off - and even when it WAS open, people were peeved about 5 to 6 hour queues. So, they're damned in every way; then get accused of gaslighting if they try and stand up for themselves. 
They weren't to know that their biggest plant machinery would operate well for one day and over night just go "nope". That's the joy of plant machinery. NO amount of pre-opening testing can prevent a "catastrophic" failure of hardware in the same way that Zamperla couldn't have prevented TT2's issues. The difference is, Thorpe aren't throwing shade at Mack; and nor should we be.
People need to understand and learn what is within our own personal sphere of influence. We have three options here: Manage our attitude, manage our situation or allow it to bother us rent-free. Either change your opinion on the situation; give up and come back to it or let the whole thing bother and consume you. You can't fix it. You can't control how or when it is fixed. You can't influence how Thorpe manage it. So just get on with your days and let it open when it is open.

You also have an element of Global business strategy going into play here too:
 
1. Nick V will only invest if it guarantees 25% return on investment (as quoted in an interview he did last year). This was not the case for the last 2 big investments, so there is an element of caution with Thorpe. Once bitten, twice shy, third time reluctant.
 
2. The strategy of Merlin is to add bedrooms and hotels. This is where the majority of the investment is happening because this is where the majority of the capital comes from - the rest of the investments are kept low key where possible and the parks hardware investment has ground to pretty much a halt except for special circumstances. It is safe business / revenue generation. Thorpe is limited to what it can do in this space because of location, available space etc. Compare Thorpe Shark to the hotels at Windsor, Chessie, Alton and Gardaland. As a result, you have a park that seems neglected because they aren't getting huge investments for hardware (other than DBGT) nor are they getting the hotel investments either.
 
3. IP's generally work. When you get the right one. Peppa Pig in Europe has been a massive hit at the parks and the World Of Play new openings are huge around the world. Sadly, Merlin will never have the UK license so has to settle for other IPs instead. Saw broke the mould and was a success. But piggy-packing on some-ones IP is less risky than creating your own - arguably the lazy, "quick win" option, but if it works you're a fool to not exploit it.
 
4. Thorpe seem to be becoming the Six Flags option of Merlin. They are going down the generic, lifeless, soul-less way of running a park as an experiment because they have no specialism - Chessie with the zoo; LEGOLAND with, well, Lego; Alton and the Towers, Gardaland being a bit like Disney, Heide Park being beautiful etc, Thorpe has no anchor and while it is so close to Chessie and LEGOLAND I don't think it ever will have one. But, they are now stuck in a rutt of this way of working doesn't work andno-one is willing to give up the capital to break them out of the cycle because of the toxic "you must perform financially in order to be given money to better yourself" attitudes that modern businesses have. I'd love it if Merlin were to just say "Right, here's £100 million. Sweep the entire park and make it great again within a year so that we can ramp up profits next year" but it won't happen.
 
5. I have a feeling that the new "owners" will not be as restrictive as playing shareholder politics. They are going to be investing for the strength of their business and not the perceptions and opinions of shareholders. This may see an uplift in investments in due course. But, don't hold your breath
 
6. MMM seem to play it safe with investments and there are no rumblings anywhere of us working with pioneering or elite ride manufacturers. And while Merlin have the perception that rollercoasters bring in more people than flat rides (which are by large more expensive to maintain for the investment they require in comparison), we will always see the decline in flats and ramping up of coasters of varying quality. Maybe if they were more daring, we would see an RMC spring up at Thorpe.. or a Mack Launcher at Chessie.

I think overall this season has been a good one. It has probably performed in line with expectations given the low investment year and guest satisfaction seems to be up. Fright Nights was always going to be a sticky one for attendance this year because of the 2 half terms of London / Surrey being different weeks; so unlike previous years where every-one visits in the same 1 week, this year is spread over 2 weeks. I think that the package of Fright Nights could be better - wish there was more obvious "The island changes after dark" other than a few mazes that open and a flash-mob dance, such as ride music being normal in daylight and changing at night, actors in public areas, light colour changes, more decoration etc but it is what it is. They tried by adding smoke machines which work well when it isn't windy. 
 
I've visited pretty much every Saturday since the season started thanks to my annual pass and season fastrack pass. It does seem that ride availability has been generally excellent and presentation of the park is better than it has been in years (mist on Nemesis Inferno, smoke on Stealth, effects on Saw, skimmers and fire (albeit intermittent) on Swarm etc). Bouncezilla seemed to do what it needed to do - provided a filler for now and seemed popular with the GP - Not a crowd pleasing, attendance increasing attraction; but decent enough "for now".
 
It seems that the flat rides are now suffering seasonal fatigue and are limping home... Something that should be considered given the lack of interest in flat rides over the parks in general. A few questions come of this though - Are we about to get a flurry of new coasters to replace these like Alton seem to be doing or will the park just be left to fall into ruin. The park almost need to admit to and own their "we want to be a British Six Flags" park rather than trying to masquerade as a theme park. If they do, they can throw a tonne of hardware at the park and own their new image. Consider an RMC hybrid or (high capacity) Raptor, Mack or Intamin launcher, a decent airtime machine that hugs the entrance etc. But that is just a fanboy wish list. Works for Cedar Point...

I think overall this season has been a good one. It has probably performed in line with expectations given the low investment year and guest satisfaction seems to be up. Fright Nights was always going to be a sticky one for attendance this year because of the 2 half terms of London / Surrey being different weeks; so unlike previous years where every-one visits in the same 1 week, this year is spread over 2 weeks. I think that the package of Fright Nights could be better - wish there was more obvious "The island changes after dark" other than a few mazes that open and a flash-mob dance, such as ride music being normal in daylight and changing at night, actors in public areas, light colour changes, more decoration etc but it is what it is. They tried by adding smoke machines which work well when it isn't windy. 
 
I've visited pretty much every Saturday since the season started thanks to my annual pass and season fastrack pass. It does seem that ride availability has been generally excellent and presentation of the park is better than it has been in years (mist on Nemesis Inferno, smoke on Stealth, effects on Saw, skimmers and fire (albeit intermittent) on Swarm etc). Bouncezilla seemed to do what it needed to do - provided a filler for now and seemed popular with the GP - Not a crowd pleasing, attendance increasing attraction; but decent enough "for now".
 
It seems that the flat rides are now suffering seasonal fatigue and are limping home... Something that should be considered given the lack of interest in flat rides over the parks in general. A few questions come of this though - Are we about to get a flurry of new coasters to replace these like Alton seem to be doing or will the park just be left to fall into ruin. The park almost need to admit to and own their "we want to be a British Six Flags" park rather than trying to masquerade as a theme park. If they do, they can throw a tonne of hardware at the park and own their new image. Consider an RMC hybrid or (high capacity) Raptor, Mack or Intamin launcher, a decent airtime machine that hugs the entrance etc. But that is just a fanboy wish list. Works for Cedar Point...

I think overall this season has been a good one. It has probably performed in line with expectations given the low investment year and guest satisfaction seems to be up. Fright Nights was always going to be a sticky one for attendance this year because of the 2 half terms of London / Surrey being different weeks; so unlike previous years where every-one visits in the same 1 week, this year is spread over 2 weeks. I think that the package of Fright Nights could be better - wish there was more obvious "The island changes after dark" other than a few mazes that open and a flash-mob dance, such as ride music being normal in daylight and changing at night, actors in public areas, light colour changes, more decoration etc but it is what it is. They tried by adding smoke machines which work well when it isn't windy. 
 
I've visited pretty much every Saturday since the season started thanks to my annual pass and season fastrack pass. It does seem that ride availability has been generally excellent and presentation of the park is better than it has been in years (mist on Nemesis Inferno, smoke on Stealth, effects on Saw, skimmers and fire (albeit intermittent) on Swarm etc). Bouncezilla seemed to do what it needed to do - provided a filler for now and seemed popular with the GP - Not a crowd pleasing, attendance increasing attraction; but decent enough "for now".
 
It seems that the flat rides are now suffering seasonal fatigue and are limping home... Something that should be considered given the lack of interest in flat rides over the parks in general. A few questions come of this though - Are we about to get a flurry of new coasters to replace these like Alton seem to be doing or will the park just be left to fall into ruin. The park almost need to admit to and own their "we want to be a British Six Flags" park rather than trying to masquerade as a theme park. If they do, they can throw a tonne of hardware at the park and own their new image. Consider an RMC hybrid or (high capacity) Raptor, Mack or Intamin launcher, a decent airtime machine that hugs the entrance etc. But that is just a fanboy wish list. Works for Cedar Point...

Couldn't agree more Joshua. You hit it on the head. Thorpe need to become a "good amusement park" rather than a theme park. Hit the Six Flags / Cedar Point model and you're onto a winner by being different enough to Chessie and LEGOLAND just around the corner..

You also have an element of Global business strategy going into play here too:
 
1. Nick V will only invest if it guarantees 25% return on investment (as quoted in an interview he did last year). This was not the case for the last 2 big investments, so there is an element of caution with Thorpe. Once bitten, twice shy, third time reluctant.
 
2. The strategy of Merlin is to add bedrooms and hotels. This is where the majority of the investment is happening because this is where the majority of the capital comes from - the rest of the investments are kept low key where possible and the parks hardware investment has ground to pretty much a halt except for special circumstances. It is safe business / revenue generation. Thorpe is limited to what it can do in this space because of location, available space etc. Compare Thorpe Shark to the hotels at Windsor, Chessie, Alton and Gardaland. As a result, you have a park that seems neglected because they aren't getting huge investments for hardware (other than DBGT) nor are they getting the hotel investments either.
 
3. IP's generally work. When you get the right one. Peppa Pig in Europe has been a massive hit at the parks and the World Of Play new openings are huge around the world. Sadly, Merlin will never have the UK license so has to settle for other IPs instead. Saw broke the mould and was a success. But piggy-packing on some-ones IP is less risky than creating your own - arguably the lazy, "quick win" option, but if it works you're a fool to not exploit it.
 
4. Thorpe seem to be becoming the Six Flags option of Merlin. They are going down the generic, lifeless, soul-less way of running a park as an experiment because they have no specialism - Chessie with the zoo; LEGOLAND with, well, Lego; Alton and the Towers, Gardaland being a bit like Disney, Heide Park being beautiful etc, Thorpe has no anchor and while it is so close to Chessie and LEGOLAND I don't think it ever will have one. But, they are now stuck in a rutt of this way of working doesn't work andno-one is willing to give up the capital to break them out of the cycle because of the toxic "you must perform financially in order to be given money to better yourself" attitudes that modern businesses have. I'd love it if Merlin were to just say "Right, here's £100 million. Sweep the entire park and make it great again within a year so that we can ramp up profits next year" but it won't happen.
 
5. I have a feeling that the new "owners" will not be as restrictive as playing shareholder politics. They are going to be investing for the strength of their business and not the perceptions and opinions of shareholders. This may see an uplift in investments in due course. But, don't hold your breath
 
6. MMM seem to play it safe with investments and there are no rumblings anywhere of us working with pioneering or elite ride manufacturers. And while Merlin have the perception that rollercoasters bring in more people than flat rides (which are by large more expensive to maintain for the investment they require in comparison), we will always see the decline in flats and ramping up of coasters of varying quality. Maybe if they were more daring, we would see an RMC spring up at Thorpe.. or a Mack Launcher at Chessie.

Jeez guys, this is one echo chamber full of negativity - talk about "love us, hate Merlin" sometimes.
 
So, no. Bouncezilla isn't a multi-million pound rollercoaster or flat ride. No it isn't an immersive dark ride. No it isn't long term. It is as every bit garish, loud and obnoxious as it suggests. It actually does what it does well and although the location isn't perfect, it's something different to do in the park (along with GameFX and the Lunar cinema too). At the moment, there are lots of rides and games stalls, but very few attractions or experiences. So, it's nice that Thorpe are exploring the possibility of things outside of rides. It's just a shame that some people interpret this as cheap, low effort and poorly thought out. Ultimately, this seems to be popular with the public and I guess that matters more to Thorpe than some die-hard forum keyboard warriors out to criticise every aspect of the park and Merlin. People seem too willing to pick them apart for every tiny detail not to their taste, but seem to be unwilling to recognise when they do well or congratulate them for at least trying something new.
 
Given that DBGT and The Swarm didn't generate the ROI they had hoped for, allowing Thorpe to explore other aspects of their park and guest profile is actually wise. But of course, Thorpe could build an RMC to rival Steel Vengeance or a Hyper that would challenge Hyperion and they would still rubbish it "because it is Thorpe".

Jeez guys, this is one echo chamber full of negativity - talk about "love us, hate Merlin" sometimes.
 
So, no. Bouncezilla isn't a multi-million pound rollercoaster or flat ride. No it isn't an immersive dark ride. No it isn't long term. It is as every bit garish, loud and obnoxious as it suggests. It actually does what it does well and although the location isn't perfect, it's something different to do in the park (along with GameFX and the Lunar cinema too). At the moment, there are lots of rides and games stalls, but very few attractions or experiences. So, it's nice that Thorpe are exploring the possibility of things outside of rides. It's just a shame that some people interpret this as cheap, low effort and poorly thought out. Ultimately, this seems to be popular with the public and I guess that matters more to Thorpe than some die-hard forum keyboard warriors out to criticise every aspect of the park and Merlin. People seem too willing to pick them apart for every tiny detail not to their taste, but seem to be unwilling to recognise when they do well or congratulate them for at least trying something new.
 
Given that DBGT and The Swarm didn't generate the ROI they had hoped for, allowing Thorpe to explore other aspects of their park and guest profile is actually wise. But of course, Thorpe could build an RMC to rival Steel Vengeance or a Hyper that would challenge Hyperion and they would still rubbish it "because it is Thorpe".

I think this is ultimately the point at the bottom of it all. Although people would happily argue that it breaks the Lost City emersion, it isn't taking a ride or attraction away to be there. Slammer and Loggers were already gone and who knows, this could be an experiment or future investments to see what works with the GP outside of expensive hardware - which some people seem to forget that Merlin don't OWN the land and so have to first seek permission from the owners to install. Yes, something big and shiny will be coming along soon - the Loggers / Slammer site can't stay as it is forever; nor can the island behind Swarm. But, just throwing new rides and coasters at the park doesn't work in 2019 - it did back in the early 2000s because that was the worldwide theme park culture back then, but not now. It's no longer about parks being ride / coaster count heavy, it's becoming more about park-wide experiences. Ask yourself - outside the community, was Steel Vengeance or Valravn a success for Cedar Point - did it engage visitors and increase their numbers massively? The 2018 TEA report would suggest not, whereas Gardaland added Peppa Pig and increased their visitors by around 10% (the exact figure escapes me) - it's nothing new or shiny. It's a well done retheme with a successful IP.
 
And let's be honest, the park this year is operating on a much higher level than previous years. It seems to be slicker, more care put into appearance (look at the park last weekend for the birthday - the only effect not working on any ride were the skimmers on Swarm) and actually more professional. All of this seems to go unnoticed by any-one quick to criticise. They literally can't win.

Jeez guys, this is one echo chamber full of negativity - talk about "love us, hate Merlin" sometimes.
 
So, no. Bouncezilla isn't a multi-million pound rollercoaster or flat ride. No it isn't an immersive dark ride. No it isn't long term. It is as every bit garish, loud and obnoxious as it suggests. It actually does what it does well and although the location isn't perfect, it's something different to do in the park (along with GameFX and the Lunar cinema too). At the moment, there are lots of rides and games stalls, but very few attractions or experiences. So, it's nice that Thorpe are exploring the possibility of things outside of rides. It's just a shame that some people interpret this as cheap, low effort and poorly thought out. Ultimately, this seems to be popular with the public and I guess that matters more to Thorpe than some die-hard forum keyboard warriors out to criticise every aspect of the park and Merlin. People seem too willing to pick them apart for every tiny detail not to their taste, but seem to be unwilling to recognise when they do well or congratulate them for at least trying something new.
 
Given that DBGT and The Swarm didn't generate the ROI they had hoped for, allowing Thorpe to explore other aspects of their park and guest profile is actually wise. But of course, Thorpe could build an RMC to rival Steel Vengeance or a Hyper that would challenge Hyperion and they would still rubbish it "because it is Thorpe".

Jeez guys, this is one echo chamber full of negativity - talk about "love us, hate Merlin" sometimes.
 
So, no. Bouncezilla isn't a multi-million pound rollercoaster or flat ride. No it isn't an immersive dark ride. No it isn't long term. It is as every bit garish, loud and obnoxious as it suggests. It actually does what it does well and although the location isn't perfect, it's something different to do in the park (along with GameFX and the Lunar cinema too). At the moment, there are lots of rides and games stalls, but very few attractions or experiences. So, it's nice that Thorpe are exploring the possibility of things outside of rides. It's just a shame that some people interpret this as cheap, low effort and poorly thought out. Ultimately, this seems to be popular with the public and I guess that matters more to Thorpe than some die-hard forum keyboard warriors out to criticise every aspect of the park and Merlin. People seem too willing to pick them apart for every tiny detail not to their taste, but seem to be unwilling to recognise when they do well or congratulate them for at least trying something new.
 
Given that DBGT and The Swarm didn't generate the ROI they had hoped for, allowing Thorpe to explore other aspects of their park and guest profile is actually wise. But of course, Thorpe could build an RMC to rival Steel Vengeance or a Hyper that would challenge Hyperion and they would still rubbish it "because it is Thorpe".

People assume that this is a cash grab - but in reality it has more to do with discouraging driving to the park because the local roads are already stretched... Future developments such as rollercoasters will always have an increase in traffic accounted for within the planning application and at some point Runnymead Council will have a tipping point to saying "no" because the local infrastructure can't cope with an increase. So, how do you curb that and keep it below that tipping point....? Discourage driving and promote free transport from public transport hubs...

Wow! Some people on here are pretty dismissive of any-one who wants to spend the money on the pass.. Surely it's down to the OP to decide how their £400 is best spent and I note that at no point did the OP ask for opinions on the pass, just how it worked?
 
My understanding is that it works the same way as the DigiPass and VIP Annual Pass (and the once-collected Ultimate Fast-Track bands) - you rock up and have it checked.
 
For the record, I'm also doing the same - I live about 20 mins away from the park and am looking forward to being able to just get up on a weekend and hit the park for a few hours knowing that I don't have to even check how busy it is - I can just go, do what I need to and come home again - no wasted time, no disappointment because Swarm has a 2 hour queue and no planning needed for Fright Nights too...

I'd love to see a Lech-style Vekoma coaster at Thorpe. It's pretty compact, fast and from reports is smooth.. That would fit quite nicely if we aren't going to see an RMC or GCI...

Don't hold your breath for anything new in 2019... I think this might be a regroup and reconsider year - Events and licks of paint. Expect focus to be on presentation and operations rather than new and shiny. They'll be focusing on getting it right for the visitors they currently have before trying to attract new ones.

A theme park on a flat runway as opposed to a flat quarry? Novel idea..

The video makes the experience look so much better than it actually is... I was so underwhelmed by this today

Well, with Slammer potentially being the only sky swat in the world, that's Thorpe's 2014 marketing strategy sorted for them... No need for a new ride or ruining modification of an existing ride to draw in the idiots willing to throw fistfulls of cash at them...

lol, I wasn't suggesting that they WOULD remove the pyramid btw, just one of my random thoughts I have every now and again..

I didn't think it was possible, but I've fallen out of love with Thorpe. It's one gimmick too far - They were skating on thin ice any-way.
We all knew that they'd find a way to ruin their best ride to date... It didn't take long

I didn't think it was possible, but I've fallen out of love with Thorpe. It's one gimmick too far - They were skating on thin ice any-way.
We all knew that they'd find a way to ruin their best ride to date... It didn't take long

I didn't think it was possible, but I've fallen out of love with Thorpe. It's one gimmick too far - They were skating on thin ice any-way.
We all knew that they'd find a way to ruin their best ride to date... It didn't take long

I didn't think it was possible, but I've fallen out of love with Thorpe. It's one gimmick too far - They were skating on thin ice any-way.
We all knew that they'd find a way to ruin their best ride to date... It didn't take long

Thanks for that reply.. It's one of the most level headed matter of fact posts I think I've ever seen on any forum. You mentioned about the management being on the case if there is a ride opened minus effects.. So do you know what the management say about the obvious missing effects from rides? For example, mist and both rows of lights on Nemesis Inferno's tunnel, smoke effect on Stealth's launch, Swam's intermittent effects (mainly the water skims), water effects on Rumba? Who would be placed responsible for ensuring the effects are working and/or repaired? I only ask because there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency fix some of them or even have them running (namely the Stealth smoke effect and Nemesis Inferno's mist / lights) - Rather than jumping on the "Thorpe just don't care" opinion some people have, I'd like to fully understand the process it goes through to end up not working... Although, I do have to say that Thorpe have gotten better with their effects in recent years.