Project WC16 - New for 2016

[JoshC.]

How about Colossus?

Angry birds land?

Rumba rapids?

Nemesis inferno's volcano?

Cattlepen queuelines with no theming?

The Shark(shipping container) hotel?

These are only a few of the examples where Thorpe Park have either plonked down rides or a particular area without caring in the slightest what they look like or where an originally good looking ride is falling to pieces as it hasn't been maintained.

So unfortunately, yes, the evidence does support the fact that this building is going to be a complete eyesore.

 

I don't get how any of these examples support your claim that the this part of the ride is going to be an eyesore?  

 

-The likes of Colossus, Inferno's volcano and Rumba Rapids are things that the park do want to sort out (ie they do care), but budget is more the likely the bigger problem.  

-Cattlepens come to logistics more than anything else, and whilst they could be more creative, one has to question whether anything more creative will add to the experience enough for it to be worthwhile.  Many many parks have cattlepen / highly compact queue lines with bits of theming to distract you.  Thorpe isn't much different.

-ABL is a bit plonked down, yes, but there's been a clear attempt to make it feel like its own area and give it its own feel.  I don't get your point here?

-The shipping container hotel argument - that loads of people bring up - just annoys me.  You hardly see the containers unless you're looking out for them, and you only see them on the entrance bridge going into the park (when most people are focused with what's ahead of them).  They're a temporary solution, and most people don't see them.  

 

So I don't see how the points you've raised supper the idea that this part of the building will be an eyesore?  Yes, other parts of the park aren't perfect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this will be terrible.

 

There is no room, even when the building is constructed fully, for a decent sized immersive dark ride.

When you say game changer, like Varney has, when it comes to dark rides, you think Spider-Man, Forbidden Journey, Escape From Gringotts, in a way ratatouille.

ALL of these rides are situated within show buildings significantly bigger than what we are seeing here, because a truly thrilling, immersive dark ride needs space.

In comparison to decent immersive, thrilling dark rides of note, this is really quite small.

The show building is ugly as sin, and the plans don't show it changing, and before hoping for a well themed second half, just remember what happened to the smiler and it's station.

 

You don't necessarily need tons of space to create a great dark ride.  Just because other, high quality, dark rides are huge, it doesn't mean all are.  Things like Hex and The Haunted House are/were fun dark rides that are well-received, and they're both smaller than this.

 

Also, a general question (not aimed at anyone) - why are we always making comparisons to some of the best dark rides in the world?  Do people seriously think Thorpe can be aiming for that standard?  Why can't we just wait and see what this is come next year and see how good it is in its own right?  Just feels like people are already setting this up to be a fall..

 

Spidermans floor space rounds to a similar size as this buildings... people seem to already forget that this isn't even a 3rd of the building.you could fit a decent ride in it still.

 

Nah - Spiderman's floor space is almost three times the floor space of this.  Agree with you about mentioning this is only a small part of the building, and the remaining part of the building is seemingly on two floors, and very little space is taken up by the shop.  This is still going to be the biggest dark ride in the UK.

 

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It's a shame that they couldn't really fit the ride elsewhere.  Many dark rides usually are tucked away behind other things, or at the edge of the park, so parks only have to theme part of the building (Duel being the best example I can think of).  

 

Looking at the plans, it does seem like this could be the final product.  Of course, the plans don't always show the finished results exactly; some finer details can be added that aren't included on the plans.  To be fair on the park, we still know next to nothing about the ride, so it is of course possible that this could be part of the ride's theme / story in some way.  Unlikely, but possible.  Don't forget that the rest of the building looks much better themed and styled too, so one can only hope that attention is drawn away from the lesser eye-pleasing sections of the building.

 

Also, one thing which I think is worth chucking out into the mix again - the plans indicate that the ride will have on ride photos.  There's certainly a few types of ride this would eliminate in my opinion, and an immersive tunnel would be one of them.

[SteveJ]

You don't necessarily need tons of space to create a great dark ride.  Just because other, high quality, dark rides are huge, it doesn't mean all are.  Things like Hex and The Haunted House are/were fun dark rides that are well-received, and they're both smaller than this.

 

You can't be more wrong on this, Haunted House was the largest ghost train in Europe when it opened (there are/were A LOT of big famous ghost trains in Europe) and is still a very large ride. Hex takes up a lot more space altogether and had an ENORMOUS amount of planning gone into how the buildings both real and constructed were utilised/hidden. They used some absolutely genius tactics with Hex and Haunted House's use of space to hide the giant building is also very clever. Totally totally incomparible to a red box put next to X No Way Out.

 

Also you know when you've lost track of being unbiased when you start adamantly defending a shipping container hotel. An actual (expensive) shipping container hotel at a premium theme park. Look we all want to enjoy the ride and I really hope it doesn't let people down inside. But the more parks get praise and indifference for doing nothing, the tackier standards will get in the UK.

 

It's a big red box, I'm sure even the designers that made it think it looks awful. Yet when standards are so low you can get away with it.

 

The bit of themed facade round the entrance will just be to attract people through the gate and give some visual indication of what is inside, at least we get that but it's still not a true attempt to create something themed.

[xxbennxx]

Totally agree with everything said there.

To compare this to the best dark rides in the world is totally acceptable, Nick Varney called it a "game changer".

In that respect it is comparable.

[JoshC.]

You can't be more wrong on this, Haunted House was the largest ghost train in Europe when it opened (there are/were A LOT of big famous ghost trains in Europe) and is still a very large ride. Hex takes up a lot more space altogether and had an ENORMOUS amount of planning gone into how the buildings both real and constructed were utilised/hidden. They used some absolutely genius tactics with Hex and Haunted House's use of space to hide the giant building is also very clever. Totally totally incomparible to a red box put next to X No Way Out.

It's a fact - this ride takes up more floor space than Duel or Hex. Granted, this ride's building also includes a shop, but measured by square meter, this ride is larger than Hex or Duel.

Regardless, my point still stands: you don't loads of space to create a good dark ride if you're clever enough.

 

Also you know when you've lost track of being unbiased when you start adamantly defending a shipping container hotel. An actual (expensive) shipping container hotel at a premium theme park.

I just don't get the argument. The shipping container hotel is a temporary solution to a long-term problem the park have. Your standard visitor probably won't even take note of it; they'll probably see the shark feature and catch a glimpse of the containers. Once they're in the park, they won't notice it. It doesn't affect their day in any way, shape or form. People who use the hotel are likely aware of it and if they're using it, content enough with the idea. The inside is relatively nice as well - certainly looks nicer than some places I've stayed in.

If people complain about the shipping containers and their look, people should also complain about the marquee sitting in park next to Swarm. It stands out, has no use to your every day guest, and everyone will see it. It has more visual impact than the shipping containers, and for less gain. Yet that receives next to no stick compared to the hotel because it's not made out of shipping containers.

Also, just as a quick question, what do you mean by "premium theme park"? Other than the entrance price, it's difficult to call Thorpe a premium park in any way in my opinion, and that doesn't really relate to the hotel?  Bit confused.

 

Look we all want to enjoy the ride and I really hope it doesn't let people down inside. But the more parks get praise and indifference for doing nothing, the tackier standards will get in the UK.

 

It's a big red box, I'm sure even the designers that made it think it looks awful. Yet when standards are so low you can get away with it. The bit of themed facade round the entrance will just be to attract people through the gate and give some visual indication of what is inside, at least we get that but it's still not a true attempt to create something themed.

So far, I don't see anyone praising Thorpe for what they've done? I don't even see indifference? All I see are people expressing their disappointment so far, or people waiting for the final product before making full judgement? Think you're jumping the gun a bit.

At the moment it's a big red box and it looks awful, yes. To be honest, I do think that when it's finished, it will still look awful, mostly because it will be adjoined to a much larger, much better looking part of the building. I've always felt that. But still it's best to wait until the final product - it's possible that it may 'work'. Unlikely, but possible.

[SteveJ]

No you're right don't need loads of space to create a good dark ride, but a comparison about how this building makes use of the space to Haunted House or Hex is daft.

 

Thorpe Park is a premium theme park, it's very expensive, very well known (internationally - I lived in India for a bit and they talked about it a lot when it came to rollercoasters) and one of the best parks that the UK has to offer. Their form of on site accommodation is a shipping container hotel. Alton Towers could have built a 'temporary' 'short term' solution when they were planning their hotel in 1996, but quite deliberately they chose to go right ahead with their best idea possible very successfully (and from that came the craze of turning every park into a resort). No UK theme park would never do that kind of big entrepreneurial thing now. The same attitude has resulted in this ugly building.

 

I see a lot of indifference with guests on park and in managerial decisions every day in UK theme parks. You can throw rubbish at people and they will complain but given enough time and excuses, it will just get accepted and no one has the incentive to care anymore. Case in point: Imagine the reaction if this building was done 10, 20 years ago - enthusiasts and guests would find it shocking and off putting. These days - stick a big logo on and it would just get some sideways glances or whingy posts like this on the internet and no one in the industry will actually care. Does this mean cheap design like this should be gotten away with? Of course not.

[JoshC.]

My comparison to Hex and Duel isn't about how the rides use space (since none of us know how it uses it!) - it is simply about how much space there is to play with.

I'm still not sure 'premium' is the right word for Thorpe to be honest, but I do see what you're saying though. The thing with the hotel is it's seen set back after set back, planning problem after problem. They've been putting plans in for goodness knows how long now (I seem to think the first set of plans were put in in 2006?). Now that all those problems have been overcome, the hotel should finally open in 2018. But until then, the park did need a temporary solution - some form of hotel is better than no hotel got the park. It's not ideal, but I do think it's better than nothing.

I thought you were talking about praise / indifference on here as opposed to in general though, which is where some confusion arose.

[xxbennxx]

I feel sorry for those in the design department.

I guarantee what they design is beautiful, fully themed and elaborate.

Then corporate step in and refuse to greenlight a budget, so then theming, which in some cases can be more expensive than the ride system, is obviously what is hit first.

Then plans like .......... this, get submitted, an awful mish mash of cool looking brick warehouse building, flanked by giant, ugly, pointlessly red, shed.

I get that big ugly red shed is all they can afford, but corporate need to stop this cheap as possible in the uk attitude.

They wouldn't do this on the continent or in the states, and the reason is lack of competition, Disney and Universal do not operate here so to the majority of uk theme park visitors, there is nothing to compare it to.

Not all people get to be as lucky as most of us and get to visit superior theme parks all over the world.

[SteveJ]

As far as I know that's very truthful. It's not a lack of care from those behind the ride, it's a climate of not caring coming from the way UK parks are so strictly structured and controlled now.

So thats how it is, but I echo the thought that it's pretty exciting to see a big spacious DARK show building going up when there hasn't been a dark ride project like this for years

[xxbennxx]

Don't get me wrong, if this is not a variant of an immersive tunnel, I am very excited indeed.

[slendercat]

Anyone see moist TV's video? XD toilet simulator coming to Thorpe in 2016!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[TPJames]

I don't get how any of these examples support your claim that the this part of the ride is going to be an eyesore?

-The likes of Colossus, Inferno's volcano and Rumba Rapids are things that the park do want to sort out (ie they do care), but budget is more the likely the bigger problem.

-Cattlepens come to logistics more than anything else, and whilst they could be more creative, one has to question whether anything more creative will add to the experience enough for it to be worthwhile. Many many parks have cattlepen / highly compact queue lines with bits of theming to distract you. Thorpe isn't much different.

-ABL is a bit plonked down, yes, but there's been a clear attempt to make it feel like its own area and give it its own feel. I don't get your point here?

-The shipping container hotel argument - that loads of people bring up - just annoys me. You hardly see the containers unless you're looking out for them, and you only see them on the entrance bridge going into the park (when most people are focused with what's ahead of them). They're a temporary solution, and most people don't see them.

So I don't see how the points you've raised supper the idea that this part of the building will be an eyesore? Yes, other parts of the park aren't perfect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this will be terrible.

My point is, these parts of the park are all relatively new, it's not like chessington where the rides have all been around for years. However, it is clear to see that no effort has been made whatsoever to maintain these areas and no effort has been made into trying to make these areas look nice in the slightest in the first place.

IAC looks alright from the outside, but if it hadn't been themed by an external company, I'm sure the park would have taken the lazy approach with not making it look asthetically pleasing as unfortunately parks in the UK can now get away with half arsing a project and still getting the gate figures.

If so many of the areas have been poorly executed due to lack of budget or simply because they don't care whether it looks nice, what's to say this area of the park is going to be different. The plans already show that externally this is going to look crap from certain angles and the rest of the park not being given a care in the world of what it looks like just gains more evidence to the fact that this is going to look awful from the outside.

Sure, Thorpe prove me wrong here. However next year when you are walking under storm turd with water leaking on you I will be happy to tell you that I told you so when you see an ugly red metal tin trying to be covered up by a wall or a mere few trees.

The approach to investments in the UK now is so lazy that it's no wonder that other theme parks over Europe are not only more popular, however much more successful in terms of profits and customer satisfaction. It's a real shame that budget comprimises or simply because the parks know they can get away with scrappy efforts now means that the quality of rides and theming is dramatically worse than anywhere in the rest of Europe, and probably the rest of the world also.

[Coaster]

Nah - Spiderman's floor space is almost three times the floor space of this. Agree with you about mentioning this is only a small part of the building, and the remaining part of the building is seemingly on two floors, and very little space is taken up by the shop. This is still going to be the biggest dark ride in the UK.

I can't see it being as big as Valhalla to be honest considering the size of the building and the fact that the ride is on several floors and is half a mile long in length.

In terms of quality, I'm not sure it will be on the same level for lots of reasons, but hopefully I'll be surprised.

As for the comment of "at least it's the same colour as X" - that really shows the low standard that some people are happy to settle with. Unless the theme relates to X in some way (which is not going to happen) I actually think that's worse as it gives the new attraction less individuality.

However, if they do theme the exterior them I'll take all that back, but going by the plans I'm not hopeful.

[JoshC.]

IAC looks alright from the outside, but if it hadn't been themed by an external company, I'm sure the park would have taken the lazy approach with not making it look asthetically pleasing as unfortunately parks in the UK can now get away with half arsing a project and still getting the gate figures.

 

Does it matter who does the theming?  Not really - regardless of who done it, the attraction is in Thorpe and that's what guests experience!  IAC was a collaboration between Scruffy Dog and Merlin Magic Making (and with advice from other companies too apparently), but it doesn't really make a difference either way, does it?

 

I can't see it being as big as Valhalla to be honest considering the size of the building and the fact that the ride is on several floors and is half a mile long in length.

In terms of quality, I'm not sure it will be on the same level for lots of reasons, but hopefully I'll be surprised.

As for the comment of "at least it's the same colour as X" - that really shows the low standard that some people are happy to settle with. Unless the theme relates to X in some way (which is not going to happen) I actually think that's worse as it gives the new attraction less individuality.

However, if they do theme the exterior them I'll take all that back, but going by the plans I'm not hopeful.

 

I forget about Valhalla actually, what with never going to BPB.  Quick look on Google Maps and it looks either a similar size or bigger; depends on how much of the 'extension building' they use for the ride..  Either way, this is still one of the biggest dark rides in the UK...

 

I think the comment about it being the same the colour as X isn't people settling with low standards, but more just clutching at straws to look for any positives they can find though.

[Project LC]

So much of this building is for a shop and the preshow though. I don't hold out for much with the actual ride. The width of the building we have now is pretty much the same width all the way along which the ride has access to. The massive bit that sticks out which they are yet to put up is a shop and preshow... I may be wrong and this ride could be good but at the current moment in time it doesn't look too thrilling. There isn't even any footers for the ride system.

[FrightNights04]

Construction from today:

[Olistjj]

Right so I've just come back and I did a backstage tour so I can cover the points I found out, you might know some already:

-It is Merlins largest budgeted project and I was told the that a lot of the budget is being spent on the ride itself rather than the theming.

-Only 6 people on park know more about the ride and he wasn't one of them although he personally doesn't believe it will be a roller coaster.

-It is due to open for the beginning of next season unless problems occur.

-October is set to be the month where a large portion of marketing for the new ride will start.

-The site where the main island beats stage is now is being considered for a flat ride in the next couple of years along with the fungle safari site.

-He also hinted at a ride of some sort being located near the Thorpe Shark Hotel.

-In the next two years the park will receive a huge budget increase for themeing which means the park facilities, rides, car park and most importantly Rumba Rapids will be receiving the much loved tlc they need.

- The island will be split into 'tribes' known as 'the jungle', 'the lost city etc in an effort to bring back separate lands with defined themes and borders, this again should be in the next two years.

-Thorpe Farm is now a nature reserve and so I was told would not be considered for any future rides even though Merlin still own the site.

-I didn't know that Colossus was originally planned for chessington but was denied permission and so Thorpe took it, starting the thrill seeker target at Thorpe and families at chessington.

-saws project name: Dylan, was chosen as it is the name of the cat of the lead designer an attempt to not reveal any movie link in saws early stages.

-tidal wave will not get its flame ball back because it is too expensive to run and maintain both swarms ball and another.

-Also apparently engineers are responsible for the regular one train operation as with one on they could carry out work on the train during the day whereas if two are on they would need to stay late and so they will often keep one in. Doesn't sound like energy saving but obviously I don't know if that's true.

-saw was apparently the most successful roller coaster launch of any theme park in the world.

-stealth is not the end of Rita that Alton towers couldn't get permission for, they are two completely unrelated rides bought in a deal with a reduced price from intamin for buying two.

-Samurai is not going to be removed from the park, it is just receiving essential maintenance.

- X is at a 'test phase' to see if it is viable to put more money into it if it is popular, apparently the results so far are promising.

- A re-paint of Colossus isn't on the cards at the moment, the lighter blue areas currently visible are sections of new track.

-There will not be a reduced line up of mazes at this years fright nights, they will be moved around and I'm a celebrity will not be converted back to a horror maze for the period.

-Picsolve set the prices for photos not Thorpe Park themselves.

Also I saw the construction and there is now one big arch inside the new structure and the outside looks almost identical to X, the rest of the site remained fairly unchanged although very exciting news- insulation has been delivered, what next? Oooooooooo

I also did Saturday's ministry of sound night and it was bloody brilliant! Would highly recommend!

[SteveJ]

And most of those points are untrue so don't take it all too seriously. Especially the one about Saw's opening (HAHA), Colossus being planned for Chessington (a million reasons why this is not true) and the one about Saw having movie links in its early stages (the Saw franchise was a very late development long after the name project Dylan was coined).

 

It is not too expensive to run Tidal Wave's flame ball because it could easily use the same gas supply and takes just a sparker to run the effect. The real reason is the gas container is about to fall down.

[Coaster]

-Also apparently engineers are responsible for the regular one train operation as with one on they could carry out work on the train during the day whereas if two are on they would need to stay late and so they will often keep one in. Doesn't sound like energy saving but obviously I don't know if that's true.

Some parks get their staff in at 6am to make sure rides can open on two trains in certain conditions.

If this is true then all I can say is poor, poor, poor!

 

If WC12 really is Merlin's highest investment then I hope it pays off, if they produce a top quality dark ride then I'm sure it will.

[xxbennxx]

There must be some indication somewhere online as to who is providing the hardware.

Buried deep in the background of some manufacturers website.

Time to start digging I think.

[JoshC.]

And most of those points are untrue so don't take it all too seriously. Especially the one about Saw's opening (HAHA), Colossus being planned for Chessington (a million reasons why this is not true) and the one about Saw having movie links in its early stages (the Saw franchise was a very late development long after the name project Dylan was coined).

 

From what I've always understood, and heard from multiple sources, when Tussauds first took over Thorpe, they wanted to have two separate park identities - one for an older, more thrill-seeking market, and one with a more family-orientation.  I've always heard that Chessington was actually the first option to develop into the 'thrill park', but planning constraints amongst other things went against, hence why they chose Thorpe.  So whilst officially Colossus (as we know it) was never technically planned for Thorpe, I'm pretty sure the original idea was to have a big, record-breaking coaster open at Chessington in the early 2000s?

 

Saw's codename was chosen to throw enthusiasts away from the theme totally (especially after Stealth), which I assume Ollie's guide was getting at.  

 

Some parks get their staff in at 6am to make sure rides can open on two trains in certain conditions.

If this is true then all I can say is poor, poor, poor!

 

Thorpe's engineering team start as early as 6am as well.

[xxbennxx]

When I went for a seminar at Thorpe on one of my business courses, I too was made aware that the maintenence team are on site AT LEAST 3 hours before opening every single day.

[SteveJ]

Chessington was never being considered to have major rollercoasters built as Tussauds had already been struggling with planning even the tiniest rides for a good decade or so. The idea that Colossus was meant for Chessington in any shape or form is just made up. Perhaps they would have 'liked' to have a thrill coaster there but it wouldn't have gone past a board meeting. Chessington had received a steady investment in bigger thrill rides until that point and so already was the thrill park out of the two.

[Coaster]

Thorpe's engineering team start as early as 6am as well.

 

When I went for a seminar at Thorpe on one of my business courses, I too was made aware that the maintenence team are on site AT LEAST 3 hours before opening every single day.

That's good to hear and I was wrong about that, still disagree with one train operation so that they can leave on time though.

[MattyMoo]

That tunnel on WC16 looks ideal for a train carriage to me... but I could be completely wrong!

[Marc]

That's good to hear and I was wrong about that, still disagree with one train operation so that they can leave on time though.

There are 2 shifts - engineers are at the park till around 11pm.