Fright Nights 2019 - Spoilers

[Stuntman707]

I’ve not seen any other reports on this?

[JoshC.]

8 hours ago, Coaster said:

There have been a few reports of people being injured in Creek Freak's tunnel, my shoelace got caught on a nail on the first weekend but I believe some people have actually been seriously injured by it.

 

Horrendous that these things aren't checked really.

Curious to hear more about this. I haven't seen any reports on social media about injuries (and usually these things have a way of cropping up somewhere). 

 

Every maze is checked by an external H&S audiot prior to the event opening I believe, and then the park's tech crew will do a daily sign off to say it's safe. Of course, things can happen throughout the night and these can't always be picked up instantly. To suggest that things aren't checked it's a foolish thing to say though.

 

As an aside: did you mention your shoelace getting caught to anyone at the park?

[Coaster]

6 minutes ago, JoshC. said:

Curious to hear more about this. I haven't seen any reports on social media about injuries (and usually these things have a way of cropping up somewhere). 

 

Every maze is checked by an external H&S audiot prior to the event opening I believe, and then the park's tech crew will do a daily sign off to say it's safe. Of course, things can happen throughout the night and these can't always be picked up instantly. To suggest that things aren't checked it's a foolish thing to say though.

 

As an aside: did you mention your shoelace getting caught to anyone at the park?

I have attached the Tweet I saw regarding an injury in Creek Freak.

 

I didn't report the shoelace incident as it unfortunately didn't cross my mind after exiting the maze, it was only after seeing this Tweet that it jogged my memory and I realised it was most likely the same nail that caused serious injury!

[Han30]

44 minutes ago, Coaster said:

I have attached the Tweet I saw regarding an injury in Creek Freak.

 

I didn't report the shoelace incident as it unfortunately didn't cross my mind after exiting the maze, it was only after seeing this Tweet that it jogged my memory and I realised it was most likely the same nail that caused serious injury!

That is pretty much what happened to my leg - I’ll insert a pic but apologies as my legs are awful.  With me it hurt as soon as I felt something hit it but I didn’t think it was that bad until exiting the maze - at that point my leg felt wet and the blood was coming through my (thankfully black) trousers.  I had some plasters on me as I tend to carry plasters/headache tablets and various stuff with me to cover nearly all eventualities but was worried about it getting infected so I went to the medical centre who were fab and cleaned it up and whacked a decent sized plaster on it - I told the lady who was cleaning my leg up that it happened in the tunnel part of Creek Freak so she said she would flag it up.  I’m assuming they did an incident report as I had to write my details on a form.

 

 

That pic I took the day after it happened (went on the 5th Oct).  Still can’t put pressure on my knees and got a lumpy bruise below where the cut is but it’s not even been 2 weeks yet so needs some time to heal.

 

The 2 people I went with were fine and didn’t hurt themselves so I think there is/was maybe a small ridge which I was unfortunate to whack - probably not helped by the fact I was trying to get through the tunnel as fast as possible thinking a chainsaw might be behind us!

 

[Platform15fan]

57 minutes ago, Coaster said:

I have attached the Tweet I saw regarding an injury in Creek Freak.

 

I didn't report the shoelace incident as it unfortunately didn't cross my mind after exiting the maze, it was only after seeing this Tweet that it jogged my memory and I realised it was most likely the same nail that caused serious injury!

Did u guys read my tweets to this person of my suggestions u would of seen I am mrduncansvlogs 

[JoshC.]

44 minutes ago, Coaster said:

I have attached the Tweet I saw regarding an injury in Creek Freak.

 

I didn't report the shoelace incident as it unfortunately didn't cross my mind after exiting the maze, it was only after seeing this Tweet that it jogged my memory and I realised it was most likely the same nail that caused serious injury!

Looks like that tweet was also from the first weekend.

 

So here's the question: how can the park prevent that? The maze is checked before opening; let's say for argument sake it wasn't there at opening. How can the park sort that out, especially when people report it long after the incident happens? That's not to blame the victim or anything, but they can't have eyes everywhere all the time.

 

These things will sadly happen with all mazes. Actors and staff will try their best to minimise incidents. But wear and tear happens throughout the day and with no reports, incidents can build up.

[Glitch]

People just always love o complain. Perhaps tie your shoelace next time with a double knot.

[Benin]

Don't think the two examples above can be solved with a double knot...

 

With stuff like this though unless people raise the problem instantly to those in/around the maze then not much will be done until the next day (I.e. once first aid have processed the incident report onto the right people)...

 

Though I'm sure knowing Merlin you need to be qualified to use a hammer or duct tape to sort out things like rogue nails...

[Coaster]

3 hours ago, Glitch said:

People just always love o complain. Perhaps tie your shoelace next time with a double knot.

People love to complain?  Is that really the case when it's caused serious injury to people?

[JoshC.]

26 minutes ago, Coaster said:

People love to complain?  Is that really the case when it's caused serious injury to people?

tbf, a cut to the knee is not a serious injury. An injury, yes, but a serious one? No.

 

I agree it's bad that things like this happen. But sadly, they will happen, and they'll happen everywhere. You've got hundreds of people an hour going through a maze, jumping, running, bashing about; wear and tear will happen quickly. A well constructed maze will see minimal incidents, and a well looked after maze may see these incidents prevented, but nails will eventually stick out.

 

The best thing to do is flag them up asap (ideally straight away) so they can be rectified. Otherwise you will end up with a serious injury happening.

 

---

 

Moving into a different subject, the Terror at Amity High shows now only take place 4 times a day: 3, 5, 7, 9pm:

 

 

After seeing the show, I did think that having it happen once every 20 minutes was very full on (it's basically a 10 minute dance show). But to cut it from 3 times an hour to once every 2 hours is almost like going from one extreme to the other. Bit of a shame.

 

[Glitch]

I think the idea was to have a small skit every 20mins

[StevenVig]

44 minutes ago, JoshC. said:

tbf, a cut to the knee is not a serious injury. An injury, yes, but a serious one? No.

 

I agree it's bad that things like this happen. But sadly, they will happen, and they'll happen everywhere. You've got hundreds of people an hour going through a maze, jumping, running, bashing about; wear and tear will happen quickly. A well constructed maze will see minimal incidents, and a well looked after maze may see these incidents prevented, but nails will eventually stick out.

 

The best thing to do is flag them up asap (ideally straight away) so they can be rectified. Otherwise you will end up with a serious injury happening.

 

---

 

Moving into a different subject, the Terror at Amity High shows now only take place 4 times a day: 3, 5, 7, 9pm:

 

 

After seeing the show, I did think that having it happen once every 20 minutes was very full on (it's basically a 10 minute dance show). But to cut it from 3 times an hour to once every 2 hours is almost like going from one extreme to the other. Bit of a shame.

 

I mean, have some sympathy for the dancers/actors, to do the routine every 20 minutes, everyday is bloody hard. That is a lot to ask of them. Additionally, having set times for the shows allows all guests to know exactly when the show will be. Because every 20 minutes could be that when you turn up, you just missed it perhaps. 

 

I visited last week and waited 15 minutes before giving up, I didn't know whether I had just missed one or not, and I wasn't keen on just waiting around. I would have preferred to know an exact time when the routine was going to start. 

[JoshC.]

1 minute ago, StevenVig said:

I mean, have some sympathy for the dancers/actors, to do the routine every 20 minutes, everyday is bloody hard. That is a lot to ask of them.

I literally said it would be "full on" to do a 10 minute show once every 20 minutes. That was the point: it was too optimistic to expect them to perform that consistently. The park over-promised.

 

1 minute ago, StevenVig said:

Additionally, having set times for the shows allows all guests to know exactly when the show will be. Because every 20 minutes could be that when you turn up, you just missed it perhaps. 

 

I visited last week and waited 15 minutes before giving up, I didn't know whether I had just missed one or not, and I wasn't keen on just waiting around. I would have preferred to know an exact time when the routine was going to start. 

I think 'once every 20 minutes, 3pm-9.40pm' makes it pretty clear when show times should be? 3pm, 3.20pm, 3.40pm... 

 

Sounds like they had changed the number of shows when you had visited but hadn't made that clear. Which in itself is an issue. 

 

 

 

Another fun diversion: MMM have posted an insight into the design of Creek Freak..

 

 

[Mattgwise]

6 hours ago, Coaster said:

People love to complain?  Is that really the case when it's caused serious injury to people?

It's reasons like this that have led to the ridiculous OTT health and safety measures that end up being why we can't have fun these days. Petit things like this that lead to these things then getting closed down.

 

I mean, it was this attitude that led to the closure of the Wild Mouse for goodness sakes. 

 

Injuries can and will happen everywhere! 

[Coaster]

4 hours ago, Mattgwise said:

It's reasons like this that have led to the ridiculous OTT health and safety measures that end up being why we can't have fun these days. Petit things like this that lead to these things then getting closed down.

 

I mean, it was this attitude that led to the closure of the Wild Mouse for goodness sakes. 

 

Injuries can and will happen everywhere! 

This is nothing like the situation that lead to the Wild Mouse's closure.  No similarity whatsoever.

 

I agree that a lot of new measures are OTT but in this case it clearly isn't the fault of the guest, if a nail is sticking out of the floor and able to cut into someone's leg in the pitch black I think that is quite serious.

[Mark9]

10 hours ago, Mattgwise said:

It's reasons like this that have led to the ridiculous OTT health and safety measures that end up being why we can't have fun these days. Petit things like this that lead to these things then getting closed down.

 

Which ridiculous health and safety measure are you most angry at? 

[Mattgwise]

2 hours ago, Mark9 said:

 

Which ridiculous health and safety measure are you most angry at? 

Who said anything about being angry? I'm merely pointing out that today's society is OTT with H&S. The company I used to work for would get people trying to sue them for the most ridiculous of things.

 

As for the nail situation, these things happen, has it been rectified since? If it has been managed then I see no major problem here. Have you never had a anything come loose at home? These things happen, although usually over a longer time period, which might be why you're having an issue with it in which case I can sort of see your point. 

 

 

[Benin]

Bit different getting injured at home grazing a loose nail to somewhere you've paid to enter who have to ensure customer care...

 

"OTT H&S" is often down to the company itself rather than the HSE, they don't demand the parks build 10ft fences or close down queue lines at height... 

[Glitch]

But every day at every park someone somewhere is highly likely to get injured and need a trip to first aid, hence why the parks have medical teams.

I would suggest if the unreported nail was such a big problem for your day, that you go to Guest services and report it they may even give you as a gift as a thankyou.

 

Rest assured Merlin's number 1 priority is the health and safety of guests. If you don't think a Merlin themepark is a safe environment and would rather moan about it online than going to report it I would recommend not going. 

 

Perhaps next year we won't be able to go in a maze without first putting on a suit of cushions. 

[Benin]

30 minutes ago, Glitch said:

Perhaps next year we won't be able to go in a maze without first putting on a suit of cushions. 

 

Again, that would be the park's own decision, no one at the HSE would be jumping up and down to make them force people to do such a thing...

 

Of course incidents can and do happen, but there's a massive difference in someone slipping up and falling over and say a piece of thematic masonry falling on their head (based off a near miss example)... The park is directly culpable for one of those incidents (though depending on the reasoning behind the slip, the park could also be at fault, but let's say it was a pure accident) and if taken further could be punished (injury depending)...

 

Everywhere that's remotely dangerous goes on about how safety is number 1 priority, and yet due to various reasons people still get hurt... Given recent history, Merlin should be ensuring a fine tooth comb over everything, even the odd loose nail could cause a massive public headache in the future... To say that this is why we "can't have fun" anymore shows a complete disconnect to the role of company (and persons) involved in ensuring safety...

[Glitch]

19 minutes ago, Benin said:

 

Everywhere that's remotely dangerous goes on about how safety is number 1 priority, and yet due to various reasons people still get hurt... Given recent history, Merlin should be ensuring a fine tooth comb over everything, even the odd loose nail could cause a massive public headache in the future... To say that this is why we "can't have fun" anymore shows a complete disconnect to the role of company (and persons) involved in ensuring safety...

And they do, but do you really think its sustainable to have a health and safety executive sit by the tunnel after every run through and deem it safe or unsafe. 

This argument getting stupid.

If its annoyed you that much, go to Thorpe and get them to sort it.

[Benin]

3 minutes ago, Glitch said:

And they do, but do you really think its sustainable to have a health and safety executive sit by the tunnel after every run through and deem it safe or unsafe. 

This argument getting stupid.

If its annoyed you that much, go to Thorpe and get them to sort it.

Why would the HSE send someone? It's the parks responsibility to check rides (and mazes) everyday, you'd hope that would result in noticing such thing...

 

I even said originally going to GS is the wrong thing, if something happens like this, you tell the staff members there... At least then it can be looked at quickly (stop sending people through, ask actors to have a look for 5 minutes) and hopefully remedied...

 

I'm not going to Thorpe, I wasn't even the one involved in the initial comment... But I will comment on things when people make daft comments about H&S matters...

[Glitch]

2 minutes ago, Benin said:

Why would the HSE send someone? It's the parks responsibility to check rides (and mazes) everyday, you'd hope that would result in noticing such thing...

 

I even said originally going to GS is the wrong thing, if something happens like this, you tell the staff members there... At least then it can be looked at quickly (stop sending people through, ask actors to have a look for 5 minutes) and hopefully remedied...

 

I'm not going to Thorpe, I wasn't even the one involved in the initial comment... But I will comment on things when people make daft comments about H&S matters...

Do you not think the park have health and safety teams?

[Benin]

When did I say that?

 

Day to day checks will be done by the frontline staff, H&S guys will sign off the maze after a few checks before day one but beyond that won't do much else unless problems are raised or major changes are required... Mean as long as their risk assessment is being followed then their job is done... I'm not sure if maintenance have to do checks on mazes like they do with rides before handing over, sure someone can say...

 

The term health and safety executive is used for the government body... Maybe your use of that term is where there's some confusion? 

 

Not sure what qualifications you need to be a theme park health & safety role... I mean I've sat in some training rooms and can make a risk assessment and my job isn't H&S directly... 

 

At the end of the day, even a simple injury can lead to something much worse, even something as daft as a loose nail... And it's the park's responsibility to ensure it doesn't happen again... To say stupid things like "going round in cushions next year if a nail is a problem" is pure nonsense and shows little understanding of what companies have to do to work within health and safety remits... All reported injuries have to be investigated after all, if they're not reported then that's the guest's decision, but the park has a duty of care on top of that...

[JoshC.]

1 hour ago, Benin said:

Day to day checks will be done by the frontline staff, H&S guys will sign off the maze after a few checks before day one but beyond that won't do much else unless problems are raised or major changes are required... Mean as long as their risk assessment is being followed then their job is done... I'm not sure if maintenance have to do checks on mazes like they do with rides before handing over, sure someone can say...

To my understanding, the H&S sign offs of a maze include:

 

-LTC signing off before the maze opens to the public (and, I believe, before actors are allowed to even rehearse in the space). Like with rides, that has to happen every year.

-Tech team do daily sign offs: they'll check that all the effects work, the area is safe (ie, no nails poking out, no loose flooring, etc) and so forth

-Sign off from the Entertainments team, ensuring there's enough staff, all areas that should be locked are locked, all fire exits are clear, see if there's any potential hazards which may have been missed, etc.

 

 

As has been said, if a problem arises, it should be flagged immediately to someone working at the maze or nearby. That way it can be checked by actors / staff and appropriate action can be taken (Benin's right in that it's basically only tech/maintenance teams who can use a hammer). Actors should also look out for these things, but they don't always notice them immediately given everything else they have to do as well.

 

It's the same with a roller coaster imo: if you were to catch yourself on a belt buckle which somehow has a sharp bit, for example, it would be something you should mention. Staff should also look out for that but it's not something they would necessarily spot immediately given how many other things they have to do too.

 

 

1 hour ago, Benin said:

Not sure what qualifications you need to be a theme park health & safety role... I mean I've sat in some training rooms and can make a risk assessment and my job isn't H&S directly... 

Don't quote me on this, but until you get quite high up, I don't think there's no specific qualifications you need. Obviously, standard experience and courses you can take to learn how to write risk assessments, understand H&S investigations, etc, which are advantageous to have prior to being in those roles, but there's not formal qualifications required. Going higher up you need them (stuff from IOSH), though most people will undertake those qualifications whilst in a H&S in the first place as a way of stepping up.

 

1 hour ago, Benin said:

All reported injuries have to be investigated after all, if they're not reported then that's the guest's decision, but the park has a duty of care on top of that...

I guess this is the major discussion point. Mazes naturally receive a lot of wear and tear at an accelerated rate. In the space of a group of 15 people, you can go from a nail being firmly in place to sticking out ever so slightly. And that can progress slowly as each group goes through. Of course the park has a duty of care and is responsible for whatever happens, but at what point should a line be drawn and we can rationally say 'The park aren't in wrong'? Or - to circle back to where this discussion stems from - how can we rationally say it's "horrendous that these things aren't checked"?

 

Not that there's a clear cut answer to either of those questions, just musing..