The News

[Mark9]

51 minutes ago, Ian-S said:

My assumptions are based in no more fact than yours, you also said he'd go for easy targets like LGBT, so yes and no, you're splitting hairs at the atomic level by now trying to say you didn't say he'd only go for LGBT rights...

 

I see that as offended as you seem to be, you don't actually deny watchg Sky News.

 

 

 

I don't watch sky news, I don't read his newspapers and I don't listen or pay attention to any of the Murdoch rhetoric. 

 

Why is that important Ian?

[Ian-S]

Its not important Mark, it called humourous rhetoric, something your generation seem not to have grasped yet.

 

Benijn, Lol wut yourself, Mark said Trump would target LGBT rights and removing the first amendment wouldn't affect single white males, he then denied saying the first and only response to the second was some unintelligible comment I can only assume stems from watching/reading/digesting too much fear porn.

 

Of course it's immaterial to you the factual context of what he said is utter horse**** or the thing he denied saying was quoted directly under my comment.

 

Come on kids, I thought they taught you how to argue properly at school nowadays.  Try to present facts rather than heresay and don't deny things everybody can see and you might find my responses are a little less sarcastic in their nature.

[Benin]

Actually, when we look back at what Mark said in the first place, we get the following:

 

19 hours ago, Mark9 said:

 

The First amendment defence act for a start. Or the fact his supreme court candidates are all anti LGBT. Who knows what will happen to equal marriage laws.

 

So, Mark never referred to removing the First Amendment itself, but an add-on to it... Here's the Wiki for it:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_Defense_Act

 

The irony of you telling me that I don't care about factual context has been blown up quite considerably there, given that you didn't read it properly in the first place... It's no surprise that LGBT people would be worried that this act would be repealed really, and it's also true that it doesn't affect straight people (ohhh like myself), yet I can understand that fear and loathing for who you are is a scary and sad place to be...

[Ian-S]

Ah yes that's a very good point Benin, you are correct and I acknowledge my error, as you point out, somewhat ironic, that fact is not missed upon me.

 

However, it would have been better had Mark pointed that out himself rather than continuing to discuss the matter then resorting to using admin powers which, until I acknowledged such, prevented me from responding to your post, and frankly, if disagreeing with another member and pointing out perceived flaws in their viewpoint is considered threatening behaviour then I suggest Mark grows a thicker skin (and if Mark didn't appoint himself, it is still incorrect that he be issuing the sanction because of his heavy involvement in the discussion, in the real world that's called a conflict of interest)..

 

Perhaps in future if an admin member is offended by something a member says to them they should do the logical thing and pass on their complaint to a fellow mod to decide upon, rather than appointing themselves victim, judge, jury and executioner, this being especially ironic given the subject matter at hand.

 

So, I'll bid the forum farewell as there are other places on the net where the subject matter can be discussed at length, maturely like adults where the mod team understand the concept of discussion without resorting to the very tactics they aparantly despise so much.

[AJ]

On 1/23/2017 at 8:24 AM, Mark9 said:

Numo 3) The first amendment won't affect the straight white male.

 

We'd know if straight white men were refused service or discriminated against I guess.

 

That's a bit discriminatory isn't it? I understand it's a tough time for certain communities in America at the moment and that there is a lot of uncertainty after lots of progress has been made. However plenty of progress has been made and will stay due to globalization people just wouldn't stand for it now when everything is shared on the internet. Women have their platform now, LBGT have their platforms - they are not going away and in fact I see lots of reports these days with everyone ganging up to support these communities - a lot more than I do for the straight white male.

 

I personally don't think anything Ian-S has said is wrong (hence why I have unhidden his post, as it wouldn't be fair to not have both opinions being shown). Ian clearly stated the points he clearly made an error - looking at the civil partnership point there - and made a valid opinion on the other things he brought up. His comments only became more exaggerated as people got so defensive which is a modern day problem on a lot of issues, which for me just grows more cumbersome. They are maybe opinions not everyone agrees with but keeping a rightful opinion hidden would be taking away the 1st Amendment as it were

 

I know it's a very touchy and emotional subject for people but loads of progress has been made in recent years, and I know for us who don't belong to certain communities will not fully understand, but it doesn't mean to say we don't try and that by not fully understanding, our opinions are wrong. If after things are said and disagreements still occur - that's what it is, a disagreement!

[Deleted Users]

On 21/01/2017 at 4:20 PM, pluk said:

 

An odd one when what is being fought against is the very result of that democracy.

 

 

 

He won the electoral college vote. He lost the popular vote. This hasn't happened for 17 years. A vote in the middle states is more valuable than a vote in the coastal states which stretches the definition of democratic. The system isn't going to change anytime soon though because it benefits the GOP. Part of the reason for the protests is that the majority of American's didn't vote for him. Imagine if the EU referendum results were remain with the popular vote and leave with the constituency vote. You think people would have taken that well?

 

The forum is paid to quote across multiple pages so I'll also say that the women were not just protesting against democracy. They are protesting because they are angry, scared, revolted at a man who has said some disgusting thing about women which the rest of the country ignored and still voted for him. 

 

 

On 21/01/2017 at 4:20 PM, pluk said:

 What do you think our, or any government, are doing when they make any deal with another nation? This is just honesty that we don't usually get to see, and I thinks it's that honesty the Americans have gone for. 

 

 

 

The UK has a 'special relationship' with the USA and when article 50 is triggered the importance of this relationship will increase. Of course we are trading partners, which in turn means we are screwed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-donald-trump-nhs-us-trade-deal-brexit-torture-a7548156.html

 

And again, just because I can't quote it, maybe people were protesting across the globe because the position of US president is one of the most powerful roles in the world and Trump will have a global impact. Maybe it's because there isn't female equality. Look at the wage gap, look at the backwards views on consent, look C suite board's gender ratios. Or maybe it's because they aren't completely heartless? When has anyone previously objected to transboundary protests on this forum?

 

Quotes again but Trump lies, much more so any Democratic candidate. He won because he pandered to the vote of the middle states, not for telling the truth. True he said things that no candidate would dream of but they were also what these states wanted to hear. FYI you can tell when he lies because he screams 'FAKENEWS' on Twitter.

 

Which brings me to why protesting was a great thing to do: Trump is incredibly thin skinned. Anytime someone proves him wrong or catches him in his lies he explodes. Look at the Russian incident. His press sec wants to ban press from the White House because they know when he is lying. He even outright denied crowd numbers at this inauguration. FYI that speech that Trump gave was in a memorial for fallen Americans. Only one other speech was given there and that was by Bush after 9/11. It was an incredibly offensive move by Trump.

 

 

Notice now how the photos published by the parks service of the inauguration were forcibly removed because they offended Trump.

 

 

On 22/01/2017 at 2:43 PM, Mark9 said:

He won't go for womens rights. 

1

 

He already has with the passing of the abortion gag: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-01-24/trump-makes-early-move-on-restricting-abortions-around-the-world/8206444

 

 

On 25/01/2017 at 3:14 PM, he who shall not be named said:

 

That's a bit discriminatory isn't it?

 

1

 

But it's correct. Straight white males are the most powerful group in America. Unless we see every other American riot this isn't going to chance. Minorities don't have guaranteed platforms and struggle to keep them over the next 4 or 8 years.

 

 

TLDR: The Right's biggest success was convincing people that they were the party of the people. The Left's biggest mistake was letting the Right get away with it.

[pluk]

For the record, I've not said the election of trump is a good thing, or that he is not a horrific human being. Quite the opposite. But you didn't quote those bits.

 

I also haven't said that people shouldn't protest, or that protesting is wrong, just that in these circumstances it's more than a little odd and doesn't really seem to have a tangible end goal. It is admittedly pretty hilarious that it riles him so.

 

[Benin]

Banning anyone from 7 countries, citing 9/11 (even though these countries weren't actually involved, but those ones aren't banned for whatever reason), and even if you've got dual nationality or a green card you're still buggered?

 

Imagine over a plane ride you turn up and are told "nope you can't come in" (especially American immigration being miserable buggers) and your entire life is pretty much finished as a result... Because THAT'S not going to help ISIS at all...

 

Horrible times to live in, especially when our own glorious leader is staying quiet for the sake of a positive trade deal...

 

Things are only going to get worse I fear...

[yeah]

A man has mowed down pedestrians and stabbed a police officer in Westminster before being shot.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-attacking-police-shot-outside-houses-of-parliament-a3496606.html

[Josh3103]

Terrible news

26 minutes ago, ChessingtonSam said:

A man has mowed down pedestrians and stabbed a police officer in Westminster before being shot.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/man-attacking-police-shot-outside-houses-of-parliament-a3496606.html

[Han30]

Awful news 

 

Thoughts with everyone involved and to the families of the deceased 

[Josh3103]

I have just seen some pictures, It was awful.

Who would do such a thing?

My thoughts are with the families of the people that were either involved or sadly died.

[Whatever]

Woke up this morning to find that a bomb exploded at a concert in Manchester. The arena was filled with children and it is thought that most of the twenty two victims are under 18. I hope the sick f*cks behind this get what they deserve for targeting kids. 

My heart goes out to all those who have lost their lives, as well as their families, and anyone affected by this awful happening.

On a personal note, I was also at a concert last night in London, and it's horrible to think that while I was enjoying  music, so many people died.

[planenut]

I too am shocked and sickened that this has happened in Manchester.

 

I had a great day at TP yesterday, being a single rider I ride alongside numerous people of varying origins and belonging to a wide variety of cultures  and religions all out to enjoy themselves. Last nights incident reminds one that the loonies are out there, and will strike regardless of those aforementioned differences and having no compunction as to who may be affected.

[Han30]

It's absolutely sickening - any terrorist attack is - but last nights attack involved lots of teens and kids which just makes it worse - to be taken so young from an utter scumbag out to destroy as many lives as possible is beyond sad.

I can't imagine the sheer panic that the people in the arena must have felt hearing the explosion and what they must have witnessed, many at such a young age.  Even the ones that survived will have emotional scarring for a long time I would imagine.

Thoughts are with those survivors, family and friends of all the innocent people caught up in it, and of course condolences to the families of those who have had their lives taken from them.

 

[JoshuaA]

What an absolutely horrible attack.

Even more sick that the majority of the people their were young.

I think we may see security geared up now in venues, but with these kinda attacks, I really don't know/think we can prevent them 100%.

Its insane how messed up/brainwashed people can be.

[Josh3103]

The terror threat level has now been raised from "Severe" to "Critical".

[yeah]

Any terror attack is awful. But attacking harmless, innocent and defenceless kids some younger than me is downright sickening. The fact that anyone would even think of this makes me want to leave this planet as a whole. If killing people who haven't even had the chance to live half of their life makes you proud you are an evil human being.

 

I've also seen some vile stuff about Muslims. Calling to deport every last one is bad enough, but asking for all Muslims in this country to be shot and killed is crossing the line, and the exact sort of violence youre trying to stop. Meanwhile Katie Hopkins calling for a "final solution" is disgraceful, but considering who said it maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. I know many a Muslim who has never and would never hurt a soul.

 

My thoughts are with the families of those who have died, those injured and those who have had to witness this. I feel very sorry for Ariana Grande too, but my prayers are not with the "Arianators". My prayers are with the victims. 

[Han30]

Been keeping updated with the news all day and it's just horrendous - an 8 year old child is one of the dead - 8 years old.  It's just incomprehensible why someone would want to destroy lives - the fact that the majority of people there were kids/teens makes it even sicker.  These terrorists are scum - they might proclaim to kill in the name of their God but what religion says it's ok to kill others?!  I'm no expert on religions but these monsters are hiding behind it and using it as a pathetic reason to destroy lives.

 

When any attack happens you see the kindness of others and that has been evident in last nights atrocities - people coming together and helping complete strangers.

 

I am no fan of Ariana Grande but I can't imagine how she must feel knowing all those people were there last night to see her sing and some never made it out.  It's heart breaking.

 

In times like this you also see just how good our police force, paramedics and NHS are.

 

 

[TPGG]

11 hours ago, Han30 said:

These terrorists are scum - they might proclaim to kill in the name of their God but what religion says it's ok to kill others?!

 

Islam 

[Benin]

1 hour ago, TPGG said:

 

Islam 

 

Deuteronomy 13:

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in 13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known), 14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, 15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. 16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt.

 

Good old Christian values right there.

 

 

Extremism does not relate to all those who practice it, we mock the Westboro Baptist Church for it's ridiculous notions of how the Bible should be viewed, to tar all under one brush is exactly why ISIS and it's people are causing these attacks... To divide people, to cause hate, to cause more people to run to them... Saying something like that is playing into the hands of terrorists...

[TarinMaria]

 
Islam 

Oh boy, and the Muslim taxi drivers who got people to safety out of the goodness of their hearts, the Muslim nurses and doctors who turned up to work through the night even though they weren't on shift in the first place and the countless Muslim people who opened their homes, drove people in their transport and donated their blood, they're all out to 'kill non believers'.
These scumbags don't stand for Islam, they're sick, twisted individuals who would claim it was in the name of any religion or political view they believed in, because they are nasty murderers.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

[Cian]

 

Islam 

 

If you're willing to blame the true people of Islam for this, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind blaming all Christians for the KKK. Or all Germans for the Holocaust. Or all Irish people for the IRA.

 

There is a fine line between the teachings of Islam and the teachings of ISIS. I advise you check it out.

[mrmonkey]

 

Generally I distrust Organised religion full stop - or ones with very fixed ideals and rules and rituals - life's too short for that! I'm quite a spiritual person - but the blinkered belief of some of the those that follow organised religion - just makes my blood run cold! 

 

Remember our history - and that we once burned one another at the stake for being Protestant vs Catholic and visa versa - if that's not organised terrorism then what is?

That might be 500 years ago, and certain religions such as Christianity have become more civilised in time - just remember they were JUST as barbaric! 

 

SOME muslims are very 'behind' by our modern western standards! And we need to live by those standards and promote our modern values, and keep promoting them! 

 

Can also just say say I'm sat in a cafe writing this.... and at the next table are a western white Scottish woman chatting and laughing opposite a muslim woman in her headscarf - obviously friends, ex-colleges or something - just two woman catching up!...... its such a simple scene.... but very symbolic! 

 

So don't go round saying all islam is evil! Some people have VERY backwards views yes...But Islam is an ancient religion - and there are billions of Muslims in the world - so We'd all be screwed/dead by now if they all truly did hate us and want us dead! 

 

I often see plenty of muslim families at theme parks I visit - they are like us, they love a day out.... the smiles on there faces are the same... remember that! 

[Cian]

Agreed. I see modern religion as more of a desperate cash-grab now, opposed to its ancient origin as a type of coping method. I still feel obliged to stand for those who are being misrepresented though, by both silly bigots and the media - however these days they're essentially the same thing. Jeez, you just have to pick up a copy of The Sun to prove my hypothesis.