Deleted Users Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 "Historically opened as Chessington Zoo in 1931, a theme park was developed alongside the zoo, opening in 1987, making it the first themed amusement park in Britain" Google is hard. Matt 236 and Kerfuffle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 "Historically opened as Chessington Zoo in 1931, a theme park was developed alongside the zoo, opening in 1987, making it the first themed amusement park in Britain" Google is hard. Right, so Chessington as a place with rides opened in 1987, making at least ten of BPB's current rides older than it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosferatu Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 BPB is not a THEME park though, it's an amusement park. OldFarmerDean, Kerfuffle and InfernoMartin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 BPB is not a THEME park though, it's an amusement park. Yes but there really isn't that much difference, not in the UK anyway. BPB has lots of themed attractions but not individual areas (aside from Nick Land), and it definitely kick started the UK industry on a major as it was around long before the likes of Chessington and Alton, and interestingly the owner of BPB at the time (Leonard Thompson I think) was good friends with the owner of Disneyland and inspired it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I refer the right honourable gentleman to his original view: I think you're forgetting BPB, some of the rides there have been around since Chessington was just an empty patch of grass! 'Some' rides can now be equal to 3 (or at least, the classic rides that haven't been destroyed by Amanda in recent years)... Plus who knows what Chessie Zoo might have had back in the day, it's likely that the place had some attractions... BPB may have kick-started the seaside resort (although Dreamland might have as well, it was opened prior to Blackpool after all) side of things, but beyond that, did it really make a major difference to the UK park scene? Back in the 30s? They were leaders of an industry that was pretty much dead prior to Chessie and Towers coming into play, probably at the time the only place that invested to a reasonable degree at the time, and even then there's massive gaps between their investments (some things never change)... There is a difference between an amusement park and a theme park... Plenty of difference indeed, and Chessie did create that UK theme park scene and gave the industry another kick... Without Chessie and Towers, it's probably doubtful that we would have some of the modern attractions in the UK at all... Perhaps I should reword my post to mean the modern UK market, because Chessie certainly did kick that era off... The likes of Falls, Fifth Dimension, Vampire, even Runaway Train were additions that changed the industry completely... Without those sort of attractions, Valhalla wouldn't exist I'm pretty sure... SteveJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I refer the right honourable gentleman to his original view: 'Some' rides can now be equal to 3 (or at least, the classic rides that haven't been destroyed by Amanda in recent years)... Plus who knows what Chessie Zoo might have had back in the day, it's likely that the place had some attractions... BPB may have kick-started the seaside resort (although Dreamland might have as well, it was opened prior to Blackpool after all) side of things, but beyond that, did it really make a major difference to the UK park scene? Back in the 30s? They were leaders of an industry that was pretty much dead prior to Chessie and Towers coming into play, probably at the time the only place that invested to a reasonable degree at the time, and even then there's massive gaps between their investments (some things never change)... There is a difference between an amusement park and a theme park... Plenty of difference indeed, and Chessie did create that UK theme park scene and gave the industry another kick... Without Chessie and Towers, it's probably doubtful that we would have some of the modern attractions in the UK at all... Perhaps I should reword my post to mean the modern UK market, because Chessie certainly did kick that era off... The likes of Falls, Fifth Dimension, Vampire, even Runaway Train were additions that changed the industry completely... Without those sort of attractions, Valhalla wouldn't exist I'm pretty sure... 3 is still more than you originally said. And I don't count a zoo as a theme park, Folly Farm and Zoo in Wales has a whole vintage funfair but nobody considers it to be a theme or amusement park, because it isn't!As for Valhalla, BPB already had several themed attractions, namely Ghost Train, River Caves, Gold Mine (which was very well themed for it's time) and Alice - CWOA did not start themed attractions in the UK, but they did bring them to another level. Although, laughably, the likes of River Caves and Ghost Train are in better condition than Chessie's themed attractions at the moment! Back in the 90's BPB were leading UK parks, were they not the park that used to turn a profit of £500,000 in one day? Or the park that used to close at 2am on a regular basis? Thorpe and Towers have been playing catch-up since the 90s and BPB have fallen behind them (not in terms of quality but in terms of leading the industry) but there is no denying that they did lead the UK ride industry at one stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 As for Valhalla, BPB already had several themed attractions, namely Ghost Train, River Caves, Gold Mine (which was very well themed for it's time) and Alice - CWOA did not start themed attractions in the UK, but they did bring them to another level. Although, laughably, the likes of River Caves and Ghost Train are in better condition than Chessie's themed attractions at the moment! Back in the 90's BPB were leading UK parks, were they not the park that used to turn a profit of £500,000 in one day? Or the park that used to close at 2am on a regular basis? Thorpe and Towers have been playing catch-up since the 90s and BPB have fallen behind them (not in terms of quality but in terms of leading the industry) but there is no denying that they did lead the UK ride industry at one stage. So you would say that Chessie DID kick-start the UK industry via taking things to another level? Meaning you do actually agree with my original point, but you just wanted to get BPB mentioned and discussed in a topic that has nothing to actually do with it... SteveJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So you would say that Chessie DID kick-start the UK industry via taking things to another level? Meaning you do actually agree with my original point, but you just wanted to get BPB mentioned and discussed in a topic that has nothing to actually do with it... No no no, Chessington debatably took themed experiences to another level, but your original post (the one I disagreed with) wrongly suggested that the rides kickstarted the UK industry as a whole, you didn't say anything about themed experiences so don't put words in my mouth.Why would I randomly want to bring up other parks without any reason for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Having met and done lots of research with the people who built the themed entertainment industry in the UK (in the 70s/80s), Chessington was certainly the first true, successful theme park development in the UK. Chessington wrote the rulebook if you like, and until the last 10-15 years these were still the values that permeated the UK theme park industry. Very different to the values Blackpool founded long before.Blackpool was hugely influential on the entertainments & showbiz industry in the UK. If anything this is a much broader and more successful industry than theme parks, but it almost died out near the end of the 20th century. If it hadn't been for Chessington (or more precisely JohnW collaborating with Tussauds and then Keith Sparks), places like Blackpool wouldn't be so successful now. Some historical variety/entertainments-based attractions like Blackpool (which were categorically NOT theme parks with totally different intentions) pulled through because they managed to follow the post-Chessington success.The whole industry is very different now, it's changed a lot even in the last few years. So you can't really compare them in the same way now. Inside and out, Chessington started a totally different way of doing things to Blackpool. The change was a lot more than just 'the first UK park to have themed rides' (which isn't exactly true anyway). Both were very influential in their own times and places. It's hard to explain without going back in time. pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Having met and done lots of research with the people who built the themed entertainment industry in the UK (in the 70s/80s), Chessington was certainly the first true, successful theme park development in the UK. Chessington wrote the rulebook if you like, and until the last 10-15 years these were still the values that permeated the UK theme park industry. Very different to the values Blackpool founded long before. Blackpool was hugely influential on the entertainments & showbiz industry in the UK. If anything this is a much broader and more successful industry than theme parks, but it almost died out near the end of the 20th century. If it hadn't been for Chessington (or more precisely JohnW collaborating with Tussauds and then Keith Sparks), places like Blackpool wouldn't be so successful now. Some historical variety/entertainments-based attractions like Blackpool (which were categorically NOT theme parks with totally different intentions) pulled through because they managed to follow the post-Chessington success. The whole industry is very different now, it's changed a lot even in the last few years. So you can't really compare them in the same way now. Inside and out, Chessington started a totally different way of doing things to Blackpool. The change was a lot more than just 'the first UK park to have themed rides' (which isn't exactly true anyway). Both were very influential in their own times and places. It's hard to explain without going back in time. Blackpool didn't follow Chessington though, they were already well established before Chessington became a major competitor in the UK.Also, BPB successful? They aren't anymore, they haven't turned a profit in years. Their most successful years were the 80s and mostly the 90s, so I disagree that they "pulled through", that's what they are doing now. I do get what you are saying though, Chessington and BPB are two very different places so it is hard to compare them in terms if how they influenced each other, I only brought up BPB because I disagree that Chessington started the entire UK ride industry (which is what appeared to be suggested earlier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Blackpool didn't follow Chessington though, they were already well established before Chessington became a major competitor in the UK. Also, BPB successful? They aren't anymore, they haven't turned a profit in years. Woooh way to miss the point of everything I was saying. Blackpool would be long closed by now if they hadn't changed from a famous seaside ride & show park to be more like Alton Towers and Chessington. Case in point: Look at Dreamland Margate, one of many VERY famous seaside resorts that didn't change with the times. It ended up shut and has only just found a reason to reopen (ironically the datedness that caused it to close is now its main appeal). Also, in 1994 to rival the likes of Vampire and soon-to-be Nemesis (at the time some of the first 'US-style' steel coasters in Europe), Blackpool went out and did The Big One. Before then it had mostly been traditional rides, shows and wooden coasters. It was obviously forseeing that bigger, classier, more "world class" coasters were becoming the new thing, as brought on by Tussauds. Blackpool were very well established as a ride and entertainments venue, not a theme park. Tussauds totally displaced that old form of seaside entertainment when they succeeded with the Chessington project. You say Blackpool is not successful because they havn't made a profit in years. Whilst sad (since at its peak Blackpool had much more influence than Chessington on the entertainment industry on the whole), surely the fact its now unprofitable fact just backs up my point? Chessington started an irreversible change for an established theme park industry of which Blackpool was not a part of. pluk, Doc and pognoi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Woooh way to miss the point of everything I was saying. Blackpool would be long closed by now if they hadn't changed from a famous seaside ride & show park to be more like Alton Towers and Chessington. Cases in point: In 1994 to rival the likes of Vampire and soon-to-be Nemesis (at the time some of the first 'US-style' steel coasters in Europe) Blackpool went out and did The Big One. Before then it had mostly been traditional rides, shows and wooden coasters. Also look at Dreamland Margate, one of many VERY famous seaside resorts that didn't change with the times. It ended up shut and has only just found a reason to reopen (ironically the datedness that caused it to close is now its main appeal). You say Blackpool is not successful because they havn't made a profit in years. Whilst sad, since Blackpool had much more influence than Chessington on the general entertainments industry in its hey day, surely this fact just backs up my point? Chessington started an irreversible change for an established theme park industry of which Blackpool was not a part of. No, because Blackpool have only started making a loss since they became more of a theme park, they thrived as an amusement park whilst Chessington thrived as a theme park back in the 90s, BPB brought their current state upon themselves for failing to realise that they are an amusement park IMO, there is still room for amusement parks in the UK that make money, look at Southend!Although actually, finances at BPB were declining before the theme park approach (early 2000's) but they haven't got any better now in terms of income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 But Blackpool still is an amusement park? Albeit very different to its original values having been influenced by the changing times. And why are you bringing this all to profits when none of that is what you, Benin or I were actually discussing beforehand? Are you claiming if Blackpool hadn't gone for bigger, modern rides and themed attractions they would be as successful as a seaside day-trip resort as they were decades ago? If you are, I highly doubt it, as pretty much all of the other famous ones hit rock bottom as soon as theme parks came out. Barry Island, Dreamland Margate, Gt Yarmouth Pleasure Beach, all very established and popular. But times changed didn't they, you must be able to see the difference right? Anyway, I'm not trying to share limelight on a favourite park of mine or twist history to make Chessington sound 'better' than Blackpool. That's daft, they're totally the products of different times and intentions. With respect, I know what I'm talking about and thought it would be interesting to share an insight into how the industry actually developed. pognoi and pluk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 But Blackpool still is an amusement park? Albeit very different to its original values having been influenced by the changing times. And why are you bringing this all to profits when none of that is what you, Benin or I were actually discussing beforehand? Are you claiming if Blackpool hadn't gone for bigger, modern rides and themed attractions they would be as successful as a seaside day-trip resort as they were decades ago? If you are, I highly doubt it, as pretty much all of the other famous ones hit rock bottom as soon as theme parks came out. Barry Island, Dreamland Margate, Gt Yarmouth Pleasure Beach, all very established and popular. But times changed didn't they, you must be able to see the difference right? Anyway, I'm not trying to share limelight on a favourite park of mine or twist history to make Chessington sound 'better' than Blackpool. That's daft, they're totally the products of different times and intentions. With respect, I know what I'm talking about and thought it would be interesting to share an insight into how the industry actually developed. No I wasn't suggesting that the introduction of modern thrill rides was a bad thing, but they are trying to be a theme park now and have put people off with the entrance fee which is what I was saying is bad. And I only brought finances in to show that BPB aren't as successful as some people think at the moment, as you made some comment about them being successful at the moment.Also, Great Yarmouth is still successful isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosferatu Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Does BPB have an entrance fee now or is it still ride tickets? I haven't been since 1997 so I don't know much about the place now. Also, gotta love this Dragon Falls discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Does BPB have an entrance fee now or is it still ride tickets? I haven't been since 1997 so I don't know much about the place now. Also, gotta love this Dragon Falls discussion. It has a £6 "non-rider" fee for people who don't want a wristband, you can buy tickets on top of that but they are so expensive these days it's not really worth bothering with unless you are literally only going on one ride.Nearly everyone buys wristbands as a result of this meaning that the park is losing out on the stream of income they used to get throughout the day. Anyway... Back to Chessington! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 You obviously refuse to see the real difference in the UK between the theme park model popularised by Chessington in the late 1900s, and the variety entertainments seaside day trip affair popularised by Blackpool in the 1900s. My comment about them being successful is that they're still relatively very popular with guests because they made key effort to keep with the times. Otherwise it would have totally burnt out like all the others. Even Alton Towers was a tattier version of Blackpool before John Wardley persuaded Tussauds to buy it and turn it into the best example of a theme park the UK's ever had. Anyway, moving on to a more interesting subject than just "Blackpool's importance vs Chessington's importance", I wonder this.. Would we have a theme park industry in the UK now without Britain's famous seaside resorts? Yes, because the 80s drive to build theme parks was very much a separate concept, but the results would have been very different. Almost all the geniuses who actually hands-on created the UK's best theme park rides made their name doing simpler projects at places like Blackpool (or John Broome era Alton Towers). In the 70s these older generation tourist attractions became the testing grounds for people like Keith Sparks, as it was obviously the closest they had to Disneyland at the time. So Blackpool did have strong influence on the upcoming theme park revolution after all, if not a part of it. Then of course there's the more recent capitalist revolution that's changed UK theme parks forever, but let's not go into that! pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteknuckle Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Meanwhile, back at Dragon Falls Kerfuffle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I quite like the discussion about Blackpool (even if its in the wrong place). It's far more interesting then the discussion about nothing happening at Dragon Falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattgwise Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 A response to questions asking if the theming to Dragon Falls is going to be reinstated on facebook has been answered with the following response: "Hello Jason, Elizabeth, Russell and Lee - there are currently no plans to reinstall the theming for Dragon Falls. We did indeed run a competition and received many fantastic creative ideas. The winner was contacted and a prize was awarded, however the designs will not be implemented as new theming. We're sorry for any disappointment that this may cause but look forward to seeing you all very soon!" So never going to happen. Shame! A real shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Maybe not 'never', it's probably more just dropped down the list of 'important things that need doing because otherwise things might get a lot worse'... Obviously disappointing though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Disappointing but not surprised by this, after all this is modern Chessington, rundown original rides with amazing theming that becomes neglected and eventually removed leaving an empty gap. As insulting falls now looks to even a few years ago, at least the ride system still works well especially when skyway is falling apart more by the day, tomb is a safety nightmare (apparently), Fury & Vampire are reliability nightmares (for headliners) and bubble works, a former shadow of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 That's strange, as I seem to recall a sign outside the ride at the time of the competition stating that it would be refurbished and receive new theming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merry-go-girl Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Jeez what if they literally never get around to installing new theaming, I think we have to prepare ourselves for that as a likelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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