Logger's Leap

[Ian-S]

Dam wish I'd rode it last weekend now, but I had forgotten my coat and was suffering a bit with the cold so decided not to.

Bugger.

[AstroDan]

Do not let them cloud your judgement with their refurbishment lies.

 

There is no reason a refurbishment could not be completed between now and March. Or even mid-season, if it was that drastic.

 

This is the next of what I expect to be a great many cuts to theme park operations across Chessington, Thorpe and Alton Towers.

 

I fully expect to see some rides slashed at Alton Towers, too.

[JoshC.]

AstroDan pretty said my thoughts on this.

 

We know Merlin will be making lots of cuts across all areas for next year, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Loggers' closure is a budget cut more than maintenance one.  There were rumours of X and Slammer also hitting the SBNO list for next season, though maybe they've been spared.  Presumably on a day-on-day basis, Loggers costs more to run than Slammer and X, which is why out of the 3, this is the one that has been dropped.

 

And if the park do reopen Loggers in 2017, I'd be surprised if we see much beyond just a general clean and maybe a (much needed) water cleaning system.  Which will lead to much backlash considering it will have been closed for 16 odd months.  So I'm worried about later repercussions that this announcement may have.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Loggers completely done up, or even replace by a Intamin log flume a la Chiapas.  Or even Loggers stay and Slammer and/or Samurai go.  But realistically, I just see this as either being the end of Loggers, or just a season-long break for the ride.

 

---

 

On another note, I wonder where this leaves Canada Creek next season.  Beyond the CCR tracks, you have Rocky Express, a less-than-popular noodle bar, a poorly rated Hot Dog Stand and the alright Naughty-but-Nice.  Given that Canada isn't a popular area as it is, and there's not many rides round that area, I genuinely think Thorpe would be better off just closing the whole area (except for Fright Nights).  It's not worth keeping that area open for one ride a couple of sub-standard food areas.

[Matt 236]

The sadest aspect is, there will be more Wildest Ride In ThecWilderness to Hear, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Loggers leap was one of my childhood rides, I just hope it gets the live it deserves now as its almost 30 now. A BTM style refurb would be nice but is unlikely.

Hopefully thorpe's 2016 season won't be like Chessie's 2013 season m (Derren Brown better be good).

[Coaster]

And if the park do reopen Loggers in 2017, I'd be surprised if we see much beyond just a general clean and maybe a (much needed) water cleaning system.  Which will lead to much backlash considering it will have been closed for 16 odd months.  So I'm worried about later repercussions that this announcement may have.

Oh believe me, they will be getting a lot of backlash if it hasn't had refurbishment significant enough to have taken a year.

 

A general clean-up does not justify a whole season being closed (and two closed seasons).  I am expecting a lot to have happened including new theming and effects, and the tunnel back.  To put it into perspective (and I know this is a bad comparison as it's not a Merlin park), it took six months to refurbish Valhalla which included gutting and replacing the entire frontage, significant upgrades to the ride system, trough replacement and scene changes.

 

If Loggers hasn't had work at least to that level then it doesn't justify the long closure, which means that it is effectively cost-cutting, in which case I will be very disappointed in the park.  They are not losing money, profit is only down slightly and closing rides is not the answer.

 

Unnecessary budget cuts are not acceptable.

[alexander]

Definitely not the attitude we should get from a company that is meant to be the leaders of UK theme parks if this is based on budget cuts.

[HermanTheGerman]

If budget cuts are behind this, then it's not that unacceptable. The company have just suffered a massive financial hit. Absolutely huge. With next year likely to be almost as bad as this year for Alton Towers, it's only going to get worse before it gets better. Its a necessary and totally justified move to cut budgets for the next season. You can't be telling me you didn't see this coming?

While I totally agree that it is very disappointing and a massive same, we'll just have to make do for the next year or so.

Sure, they could try and look their best and entice as many guests as possible, but the damage has already been done. Repainting and opening everything is no incentive to come, it only stops people from being put off even further. So the money that they'll save by closing these rides and cutting their budgets, will undoubtedly help them more in the long term.

[JoshC.]

And Jamie has shown the exact reason why I'm concerned by this whole thing.  

 

I just don't see Loggers getting a massive refurb.  A small refurb / spruce up / whatever you want to call it, I can see that happening.  But a massive refurb which justifies closing it for a whole season?  Nah; I just can't see it.  I'd love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

 

This all means that, come reopening (or in the event that it doesn't reopen), Thorpe are going to get a lot of angry response from people who expected something which was never on the cards.  

 

 

which means that it is effectively cost-cutting, in which case I will be very disappointed in the park.  They are not losing money, profit is only down slightly and closing rides is not the answer.

 

Unnecessary budget cuts are not acceptable.

 

It's a difficult one.  Yeah, they're still making a profit.  But when a company expects to make a £90 million profit and only make a £40 million profit (I believe they were round about the figures at least?), they can't just shrug it off.  

 

Is closing rides down the answer?  From a business perspective, possibly.

[Charles Parry]

Surely this kind of stuff will push Merlin parks into a downward spiral? If park numbers are down, closing popular rides will give people less of a reason to go, so less money going in, so more cuts... Or maybe they are just complacent as no one is really competing at the level in the UK currently.

[Adam P]

I'm sure the rerbishment is more than what we just see, there will be upgrades behind the scene none of us will see but will help the ride going forward. Have to be honest on its reopening I'm not expecting visually much difference.

[Marc]

 

Unnecessary budget cuts are not acceptable.

 

Are you aware of Thorpes / Merlins finances? 

 

If budget cuts are behind this, then it's not that unacceptable. The company have just suffered a massive financial hit. Absolutely huge. With next year likely to be almost as bad as this year for Alton Towers, it's only going to get worse before it gets better. Its a necessary and totally justified move to cut budgets for the next season. You can't be telling me you didn't see this coming?

While I totally agree that it is very disappointing and a massive same, we'll just have to make do for the next year or so.

Sure, they could try and look their best and entice as many guests as possible, but the damage has already been done. Repainting and opening everything would only not further put people off. It'd be no incentive to come. So the money that they'll save by closing these rides and cutting their budgets, will undoubtably help them more in the long term.

 

Nail on the head. I like loggers as much as anyone, its a loss no doubt. 

 

Its all well and good to say Merlin are still making money which they are, but they have halved, that is a significant swing in the wrong direction. Its all well and good saying they shouldn't be making these cuts because they are still making profit, but what company in its right mind waits till its running at a loss to make adjustments to the business? 

 

I'm sure the rerbishment is more than what we just see, there will be upgrades behind the scene none of us will see but will help the ride going forward. Have to be honest on its reopening I'm not expecting visually much difference.

 

 

There is of course this too, Rumba had a whole new PLC not so long ago which obviously no one knew about but is a significant investment, improves operations and extends the rides life. 

[TraX]

Well Merlin don't care what they put out. We all saw from Dragon Falls and it's promise that they completely brushed under the carpet, and it's sat their looking dire, with not much backlash at all.

They could just say 'the island is changing in 2017/18' and loggers is dead.

Astrodan hit the nail on the head.. The Flume will go too. Sadly Loggers is a great log flume, that just hasn't been looked after.

[AstroDan]

The fact is, that if 2016 offers a below-par theme park offering, it's hardly going to entice guests and give them the best impression.

 

Merlin were already making cuts at Alton Towers and the like before The Smiler caused a downturn in guests... people must not forget that!

 

I do worry whether this is a race to the bottom. It isn't like there's that much competition in the UK.

 

All that said, as much as Merlin have to report good news to shareholders, if the parks quality declines, then that isn't going to give the shareholders anything long term. At all.

 

Worried. I dread to find out what Alton Towers have planned.

[Coaster]

Its all well and good to say Merlin are still making money which they are, but they have halved, that is a significant swing in the wrong direction. Its all well and good saying they shouldn't be making these cuts because they are still making profit, but what company in its right mind waits till its running at a loss to make adjustments to the business? 

Closing rides is only going to lower the customer satisfaction at the park even more, subsequently leading to further loss of guest numbers.

 

Thorpe are trying to get families through the gates, so closing a staple family ride is a bad decision which will lead to lots of disappointment because it's closed as well as strain being put on other attractions in the park.  Have you seen the queues it gets on warm days despite being one of the best throughputs on park?  That says enough about its popularity IMO.

 

This is all before we even get to how bad it will look having it SBNO all year.  Oh, but wait, surely there will be work being carried out throughout the entirety of the season, otherwise they will have a hard time telling the public that it's closed for "maintenance" if it's just sitting there collecting dust.

 

 

I have no doubt that they are going to do at least some work to Loggers, but I think it is being used as an excuse to cut next year's costs by closing it all season.

 

 

All that said, as much as Merlin have to report good news to shareholders, if the parks quality declines, then that isn't going to give the shareholders anything long term. At all.

This.  Although in my opinion theme parks should never be allowed to get to the stage where shareholders are more important than the actual parks themselves and the experience they are offering to guests!

[Benin]

Nail on the head. I like loggers as much as anyone, its a loss no doubt. 

 

Its all well and good to say Merlin are still making money which they are, but they have halved, that is a significant swing in the wrong direction. Its all well and good saying they shouldn't be making these cuts because they are still making profit, but what company in its right mind waits till its running at a loss to make adjustments to the business? 

 

I feel that the problem is that this isn't just a normal style business, and given how the service from the parks has been going steadily downhill with the recent cuts already being put into place, is cutting more stuff and providing even less of a value for money day out really the answer?

 

Even if the Flumes are being closed for valid reasons, it's not a great look for the parks whatsoever... Especially with other rides being dead or closed for whatever reason...

[Matt 236]

From what I'm aware, Thorpe have actually been suffering pretty badly on the guest numbers for a long time, essentially still so since 2012 time, Thorpe's numbers haven't been great and though in 2013 & 2014 they went up, they were still not to the levels of the pre 2011 days where despite the horrid mess of Storm Surge appearing, was around when the park was in it's peak [in many ways].

 

Apparently Thorpe's numbers were down quite badly this year before Smiler even happened. Part of me thinks Thorpe will be hit just as badly as Towers, if not a little more as a result.

 

Legoland is the only park doing very well right now [though Chessington isn't doing bad [at least visitor wise], but I wouldn't be surprised to see cuts implemented there too.

 

Unless Derren Brown is an overwhelming success, I fear 2016 could be a disapointing year and one that will take use back to the epitome DIC 2004 days. 

[Coaster]

From what I'm aware, Thorpe have actually been suffering pretty badly on the guest numbers for a long time, essentially still so since 2012 time, Thorpe's numbers haven't been great and though in 2013 & 2014 they went up, they were still not to the levels of the pre 2011 days where despite the horrid mess of Storm Surge appearing, was around when the park was in it's peak [in many ways].

 

Apparently Thorpe's numbers were down quite badly this year before Smiler even happened. Part of me thinks Thorpe will be hit just as badly as Towers, if not a little more as a result.

That doesn't surprise me in the least, providing such a poor service years-on-end as well as making bizarre investments that don't pull the crowds in (ABL, IAC) is bound to bring gate figures down.

 

And that is why I get so frustrated with the park.  They charge a crazy entrance price, run the park with several rides closed and/or on poor capacity, oversell Fastrack and provide awful customer service...

 

THEN THEY WONDER WHY GUEST NUMBERS ARE DOWN! 

[JoshC.]

Thorpe are trying to get families through the gates, so closing a staple family ride is a bad decision which will lead to lots of disappointment because it's closed as well as strain being put on other attractions in the park.  Have you seen the queues it gets on warm days despite being one of the best throughputs on park?  That says enough about its popularity IMO.

 

Totally agree.  Loggers is a popular, all-rounder ride which everyone can enjoy.  Closing it is really going to damage the family ride line up and could prove quite problematic in the summer.  

 

Unless Derren Brown is an overwhelming success, I fear 2016 could be a disapointing year and one that will take use back to the epitome DIC 2004 days. 

 

Obviously since I was younger and it was the first season I could ride 1.4m rides my views will be rather biased, but 2004 Thorpe in particular was pretty good on the whole I think.

[TraX]

I think in thorpes eyes, it's the case of Tidal, DC, Storm Turd, Rumba are available, so who's gonna miss the great Loggers Leap??

Er, me.

[OldFarmerDean]

how unreliable has loggers become? very? it's usually closed with someone stood out the front when I walk past as much as it's open... so it does make sense to try and cut budget somewhere for a year, while giving the necessarily TLC to make it a more reliable ride for 2017... one can hope they do a legoland and do a nice refurb and update the theme etc. too (plus thorpe can advertise it I guess)... but we'll have to see, I'm not holding any hope, I'm still expecting plain old loggers, and anything better will be great, even just the tunnel!

[Coaster]

I think in thorpes eyes, it's the case of Tidal, DC, Storm Turd, Rumba are available, so who's gonna miss the great Loggers Leap??

They are all completely different rides and all have a place in Thorpe's lineup (well, apart from Storm Surge).

[TraX]

What I mean is they're water rides. Thorpe would have thought one closed makes no difference.

[Coaster]

 

What I mean is they're water rides. Thorpe would have thought one closed makes no difference.

Shame they chose Loggers and not the pile of junk in front of X in that case!

 

On a more serious note, that is a terrible way of thinking as any closed ride makes a difference, especially one as popular as Loggers.

 

how unreliable has loggers become? very? it's usually closed with someone stood out the front when I walk past as much as it's open... so it does make sense to try and cut budget somewhere for a year, while giving the necessarily TLC to make it a more reliable ride for 2017... one can hope they do a legoland and do a nice refurb and update the theme etc. too (plus thorpe can advertise it I guess)... but we'll have to see, I'm not holding any hope, I'm still expecting plain old loggers, and anything better will be great, even just the tunnel!

I don't doubt that it needs some form of refurbishment, what I do doubt however is that it will take a whole year and two closed-seasons.

[Marc]

how unreliable has loggers become? very? it's usually closed with someone stood out the front when I walk past as much as it's open... so it does make sense to try and cut budget somewhere for a year, while giving the necessarily TLC to make it a more reliable ride for 2017... one can hope they do a legoland and do a nice refurb and update the theme etc. too (plus thorpe can advertise it I guess)... but we'll have to see, I'm not holding any hope, I'm still expecting plain old loggers, and anything better will be great, even just the tunnel!

Loggers did seem to have down time this year on my visits, also noticed temporary pumps had been hired in to keep it open during peak season.

Also whilst I accept the point it's not going to help the parks family brand, I Woukd be surprised if wc16 was not marketed towards the whole family

[Mark9]

What I mean is they're water rides. Thorpe would have thought one closed makes no difference.

 

Loggers Leap can be hidden so much more easily then Tidal Wave and Storm Surge though lets face it. Completely close off Canada Creek and it's like Loggers and Rocky don't exist.

 

I remember when Tidal Wave was announced to be closed for the rest of the season back in October and I said it's going to get worse before it gets better. Well here we and the immediate impact of the Smiler incident is already becoming evident. Big cuts to Alton and already one ride SBNO at Thorpe. I'm amazed that people thought that nothing else was going to happen frankly. Losing 50 million profit is absolutely huge to a company like Merlin, people shrugging it off like it's nothing is simply astounding. I don't think SBNO'ing a ride is the right answer and I doubt Thorpe want to make the decision either. But this is what it is.