Hyperia Speculation and Construction Thread

[Project LC]

Stealths unique selling point is the launch and the height. It was also Tussauds era so didn't need to meet Merlin's critera. I do not believe stealth would have been built under Merlin. It costs a fortune to run, it doesn't have a good enough worlds/Europe's first and it had planning permission issues with its height. 

 

They definitely will not be going for the UK length record. A lobger coaster pushes up the price and the operating costs for a record the general public wont care about. The MTDP (still out of date) highlighted coatser lengths of 950m and 800m for the 2 coasters. Seeing as Swarm was the 800m id expect a new coaster to be around 950m in length. 

 

A hyper would steal aways stealths unique selling points, it would be an incredibly expensive choice, it would come with planning permission nightmares and a giant question mark on if the general public will understand it. 

 

While yes from an enthusiast point of view I'd love to see a hyper. It would compliment the line up well. I just don't think it will happen. My guess would be an IP on the loggers site 110ft, 900m in length, probably planned as wood but having to undergo some changes due to the price increase. With 2 flat rides to go along with it. 

 

That said I think the best choices they could make is an intamin multilaunch. A multilaunch around the loggers site, hugging the ground and interacting with the lake could make for a great ride. Especially if they had an alpine like theme to match. Maverick is a masterpiece of coaster design and trying to replicate that at thrope I think could work well. 

[JoshC.]

1 hour ago, Project LC said:

I do not believe stealth would have been built under Merlin. It costs a fortune to run, it doesn't have a good enough worlds/Europe's first

When Stealth opened, it was marketed as Europe's highest and fastest launch coaster. That's a "Merlin" claim, and stronger than many of their recent ones. They could also have gone down "Europe's most intense launch" or "One of the world's most intense launches" routes to add to it. They could have made it work. 

 

1 hour ago, Project LC said:

The MTDP (still out of date) highlighted coatser lengths of 950m and 800m for the 2 coasters.

The last MTDP stated any coasters built under those restrictions would not exceed 850m. 

 

The thing is, since it is (well) out of date, it means nothing. If the park wasn't to build longer, they can. The only reason for giving a number is because the park had loose enough plans that they didn't expect to build a coaster longer than 850m, so why would they say they would. There's no restriction on the park saying they can't exceed a set length with a coaster. 

 

As for height, it's true they had to be more careful and rigorous with Stealth. And they had carefully placed high points for Swarm and any potential ride on the island behind Stealth. But again, there is no specific restriction on how high they can build within reason. I think their max height because of Heathrow is around 500ft, but something even close to that size is unrealistic anyway. 

 

So a hyper isn't impossible. Of course, a hyper coaster raises many issues... the main one being how would you install one without dwarfing the rest of the park? Stealth works because of its location and minimal structure. Would, say, a 250ft lift hill plus many airtime hills greater than 100ft in height just put everything else to shame in perspective? Possibly. 

[Matt N]

59 minutes ago, JoshC. said:

So a hyper isn't impossible. Of course, a hyper coaster raises many issues... the main one being how would you install one without dwarfing the rest of the park? Stealth works because of its location and minimal structure. Would, say, a 250ft lift hill plus many airtime hills greater than 100ft in height just put everything else to shame in perspective? Possibly. 

This is an interesting question, but Big One dwarfed the rest of BPB in a similar fashion (if not to a greater extent, given that their next tallest coaster in 1994 was only around 60-70ft tall) when it first opened, and that never caused any issues for the rest of the park's rides. So I guess it raises the question of; why couldn't Thorpe make a hyper work in a similar way to BPB?

 

I actually think that a huge coaster like that would work well. It would give further gravitas to the inevitable "UK's tallest coaster" marketing campaign, and reinforce the record, as well as the ride's status as a park icon, in the eyes of the average visitor. Not to mention that it would grab people's attention immediately without too much heavy lifting, which is surely what Thorpe needs at this point in time?

[JoshC.]

9 hours ago, Matt N said:

This is an interesting question, but Big One dwarfed the rest of BPB in a similar fashion (if not to a greater extent, given that their next tallest coaster in 1994 was only around 60-70ft tall) when it first opened, and that never caused any issues for the rest of the park's rides. So I guess it raises the question of; why couldn't Thorpe make a hyper work in a similar way to BPB?

 

Blackpool's situation was arguably very different.

 

Prior to 1994, they had a collection of old woodies and a couple of mid-range thrill coasters. Perhaps their most thrilling ride at the time was Revolution. 

The introduction of Big One was a marked step up. It was meant to be something which dwarfed the rest of the park, but not overshadow them. (Realise now my wording in previous post could have been better). Big One was the 'extreme, large scale, big boy' ride. The other rides were thrilling and fun, but could easily be said to be a level below Big One.

 

At Thorpe, you have Colossus, Inferno, Stealth, Saw and Swarm. A quintet of big, extreme rides. You can certainly argue amongst those there's some which are 'bigger'/'more intense'/'more extreme' than the others, but they all have that 'large scale, big boy' ride aura. 

So creating a ride that is physically bigger than all of them could create a suggestion that it's a "step up" from all of them, especially in a park as small as Thorpe where it's easy to compare everything.

 

It doesn't rule out a hyper. And I'm sure there's plenty of parks, including Blackpool, who have come to this hurdle and tackled it one way or another. But it's certainly something that needs to be carefully considered if one was to come, both from a design and marketing perspective. 

[Mark9]

11 hours ago, JoshC. said:

So a hyper isn't impossible. Of course, a hyper coaster raises many issues... the main one being how would you install one without dwarfing the rest of the park? Stealth works because of its location and minimal structure. Would, say, a 250ft lift hill plus many airtime hills greater than 100ft in height just put everything else to shame in perspective? Possibly. 

 

I've been to too many parks with hyper and giga coasters to know that this isn't an issue.

[Inferno]

I'm not sure how I feel about the argument for a Hyper taking away from the other coasters.

 

I do agree, it would absolutely dwarf the other rides, however by next season Colossus opened 20 years ago, Inferno opened 19 years ago and Stealth opened 16 years ago...

Many of their "big coasters" opened before much of the target audience were even born.

 

It's also worth noting that anyone who visits Thorpe who has been to parks abroad immediately notice how small Thorpe's coasters are - it's been a talking point I've heard countless times over the years.

 

With those points in mind, is it actually an issue that the new ride might be deemed "bigger and better than the old stuff"?

The truth is, the existing rides aren't doing anything 'special' to pull a crowd anymore. Does anyone really talk about Inferno or Colossus much anymore?  Not really unfortunately. They're antiques to a lot of people!

I think they'd still attract queues on the day, like they do now, but a BIG new crowd pleaser would really pull people in and make an impact, especially if another large coaster was added behind Stealth a few years later.

 

I think it's time the old rides became supporting rides now, making way for the new generation!

 

At the same time though, the thought of "a Maverick" possibly coming to Thorpe is extremely exciting!!  I wonder if Merlin would still consider an Intamin these days?

[Project LC]

I don't think a hyper would overshadow the park. It would take away from stealth as the two trick pony relies on height and speed. I just don't think Merlin want that planning application battle for a hyper when the public just might not understand why a hyper is good. Bare minimum it would have to be the UK's tallest which makes it a tall ask for the planners to approve. 

 

It is exceptionally rare in any industry for a company to only contact one supplier. When dealing with multimillion pound construction projects the law actually requires them to get multiple bids from suppliers and contractors. (They don't have to go with the cheapest, just the bid they feel works best). So Merlin working with intamin again isnt out of the question by any respect. 

 

The issue with a multilaunch is its supporting infrastructure, they drain a lot of electricity so end up costing a fair amount to build and run.  

 

The older rides are now pretty old and the park is going to need some serious investment in the coming years. The unholy trinity have lost their pull towards guests due to their age and should be considered for refurbishment/replacing in the next 10 years (Colossus I'm mainly talking about you). I also don't think any of the rides are pulling in people anymore. The park does as a whole due to its line up but no one ride is the headliner. Their next investment needs to be a headliner that can carry the park for a few years while they either repair or replace their ageing assets. 

[Blublublub]

Edited November 27, 2021 by Blublublub
n/a

[Mattgwise]

27 minutes ago, Blublublub said:

Good to see. Potentially exciting times ahead! For me i'd still like to see a hyper. But any "exhilarating" coaster will be welcomed

 

Out if interest where did you get this? Are you local to the park?

 

What's the back say as there are no dates or anything on that side?

[JoshC.]

https://www.thorpepark-consultation.com/

 

👀

[Matt N]

Wow, exciting stuff! So much to think about!

 

Firstly, I’d be very, very surprised if this is a prank. It looks pretty official, and most pranks probably wouldn’t go quite this elaborate; printing out loads of flyers to send to locals and making a website that is a spitting image of Thorpe’s current one would be a huge amount of effort for a simple prank conjured up by a local prankster! This isn’t like that Project Zer0 thing that loads of people (myself included) thought could be teasing a new coaster a few years back, where it was just some cryptic YouTube videos, a random website not affiliated to Thorpe at all and a load of 0s randomly appearing around Thorpe; this looks pretty official, and I think telling residents to look at a consultation website on 10th December if there was nothing to show would lead to some harsh consequences for the perpetrator…

 

Secondly, I think the choice to go for a full-blown consultation is very interesting on Thorpe’s part, and this is a very premature start to planning compared to usual if Thorpe’s next coaster does come in 2024 as rumoured. Could Thorpe possibly be trying to get the locals on side early so that they can build something that might have a tougher time getting through planning… like a hyper, perhaps?

 

I’m certainly optimistic that this could be something to get really excited about myself; my personal bet is a B&M Hyper Coaster, but regardless, I think it’ll be very exciting!

[Blublublub]

I should clarify, Its been sent to a few of my friends and family in Thorpe Village/Lea area too so its official!!

[JoshC.]

4 minutes ago, Blublublub said:

I should clarify, Its been sent to a few of my friends and family in Thorpe Village/Lea area too so its official!!

 

Any chance of you being that annoying friend who asks for a photo of the reverse of the leaflet too?

[Matt N]

I don’t know about you guys, but I honestly reckon we could learn a fair amount about Thorpe’s coaster from this consultation.

For instance, I’d expect that we’ll at very least discover a broad description of the ride that limits the scope of our guesses down to a much greater degree than it was previously; to use Chessington’s initial consultation in May as an example (given both are Merlin properties, I’d imagine that Merlin would want to keep procedures fairly consistent), the initial consultation they did revealed most of the key info. For instance:

• It was revealed then that it would be a “family thrill” shuttle coaster with a potential inversion and a 1.4m height restriction.
• The basic ride layout was also confirmed, as well as a rough idea of scale.
• The big theming structure and the land with the 2 additional filler rides was also confirmed at the initial consultation.
• I even remember the winged seating being thrown around by people who’d been to the consultation back then, although I’m unsure if winged seating was expressly confirmed at the initial consultation.

The only things the full planning application for Project Amazon a few months later really confirmed that we didn’t already know were the finer statistics (e.g. exact height, track length), the finer details of the land, and that B&M was officially confirmed as the manufacturer (although B&M had been thrown around as a very strong rumour ever since the initial consultation).

 

So from this consultation, I’d imagine we should expect:

• A broad description of what the ride is and what it does. A manufacturer may or may not be confirmed, but I’d imagine we may be able to take a fair stab based on what the park says about the ride. In terms of what I mean here; if the ride were a hyper coaster, for instance, the park would probably say that they were building a tall out and back coaster with lots of large airtime hills.
• A basic overview of the layout. Even though they probably won’t delve too much into specifics, they’ll probably show the footprint the ride will take up, the basic layout and the essence of what it does, the rough scale they expect (we expect the ride to be around [x]ft tall with [x] high points).
• With the site being picked, I’d also imagine that Thorpe may specify what’s being removed in terms of rides, infrastructure, trees etc.
• We may also get some hint at the theme, such as any theming structures being included. Chessington’s consultation revealed the basic jungle style theme, as well as the big theming structure.

Of course, this is all conjecture on my part, but I’d personally say there’s a fair chance that we’ll get these sorts of things (or at least, something similar) revealed on the 10th based on what Chessington’s consultation for Project Amazon was like.

 

Isn’t all this very exciting, though? I’m certainly optimistic that this could be something to really look forward to!

[1729]

I hope we can be optimistic here, but I think the key here is to not be over hyped with this thing. You may get lots of info, you may not. If we do get a coaster type it may not be whats expected, I mean there will be people out there which if it isnt RMC or a Hyper they will Riot

However I think that this consultation is happening as the project isnt covered by the MTD plan, which may be just a sightline issue

Or we just getting a B&M Wing shuttle that Chessington is getting but instead being a bit bigger  

[Glitch]

I’m thinking it’s going to be family centred. I can’t see Merlin going down the thrill route to cater to the 1% of visitors a year they deem to be the enthusiast, especially when families put so much money on the table.

 

I notice Merlin got a new CFO last year so perhaps he is the person to thank for the investment as I recall Anne Francios being very negative towards rollercoasters being worthwhile investments in terms of ROI. 
 

Other than that wonder if the consultations will just be full of budding enthusiasts wanting vlog footage?! Tempted to try and block the thing unless they promise a rollercoaster accessible to those over the dreaded 1.95m height limit.

[LeoTDX]

8 hours ago, Glitch said:

I’m thinking it’s going to be family centred. I can’t see Merlin going down the thrill route to cater to the 1% of visitors a year they deem to be the enthusiast, especially when families put so much money on the table.

The Family/thrill issue always confuses me, Thorpe always gets more visitors each year over chessington.
 

The rollercoaster/thrill model clearly works, I agree the park needs more family attractions to cater to both. I just can’t see the next rollercoaster after 10 years to be a family centred coaster. 

 

However, that’s a thorpe created issue. No sense of direction with who they are catering to and the lack of investment over the past 10 years. Means that their next investment has to be catered for kids or keep focusing on purely thrill based. Neither helps the park, unless they do both.

[Inferno]

16 hours ago, Glitch said:

I recall Anne Francios being very negative towards rollercoasters being worthwhile investments in terms of ROI. 

Really? 🤨

Ah yes, rollercoasters, those pointless, non-headline things nobody goes to theme parks for. What a waste of money at a theme park 🙄

 

Seriously though how exciting!  Looking forward to the 10th.

[JoshC.]

26 minutes ago, Inferno said:

Really? 🤨

Ah yes, rollercoasters, those pointless, non-headline things nobody goes to theme parks for. What a waste of money at a theme park 🙄

 

Could be from a very crude numbers point of view I guess:

"We spend £x on a roller coaster and get back £y. We spend £(x/10) on something else and get back more than £(y/10). So 10 something elses gives more than one coaster, so why get a coaster when we can get 10 something elses?"

 

I assume it wasn't quite that simple, but you get the gist. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the loose logic tbh

 

 

In other news, here's TPM's news update nicely summarising everything: https://thorpeparkmania.co.uk/news/28-11-2021/Consultations+to+Occur+for+a+New+Roller+Coaster!

[Matt N]

I had a thought; I’m not sure if you guys would agree, but even if this coaster doesn’t end up being a hyper, I reckon the Thorpe hyper is now becoming almost as notorious (for lack of a better word) as a hypothetical ride concept as the Towers woodie was prior to Wicker Man’s construction, so given that Thorpe can technically build higher than Stealth (after some research, they are apparently outside Heathrow’s inner surface), I reckon it will happen eventually, even if not 2024! Given enthusiasts wore Merlin down enough to build a wooden coaster, which they literally said even only a few years prior that they would never do due to them being unmarketable, I’d suggest that a hyper would take far less convincing!

My personal thought is that this new coaster could very well be a hyper (my personal prediction prior to the consultation is B&M Hyper that will steal the UK height record), but even if it’s not, I think we will see one eventually…

[Stuntman707]

Exciting news! I have a feeling it will be a B&M, possibly a hyper just to take the UK’s tallest crown away from Blackpool Pleasure Beach. (And they need something to compete with Ensō and Valhalla V2!) It’s about time Thorpe finally got a new coaster and having old town renovated with it. After the past few years feeling rather stale at Thorpe for me, this has already brought back my enthusiasm for the place again. Thorpe shouldn’t be afraid of being a thrill park. Let Chessington and Legoland cater to families but let Thorpe be a destination thrill seekers want to come & visit.

[Inferno]

Maybe reading too much in to it, but one thing to note is the leaflet mentions “The new ride will provide an exhilarating…” blah.  Maybe meaning this is likely to be a single coaster rather than a “land” similar to Chessington’s?

 

I can’t imagine Heathrow would be an issue, would it?

Any aircraft flying over a built up area at 500ft is asking for trouble, regardless of coasters, especially the traffic to/from Heathrow.

 

If any aircraft to/from Heathrow is at 500ft (but not on short finals or immediately after takeoff) the top of a coaster is the least of their worries.

 

I hope the local residents are onboard with Thorpe’s application. It’s all getting very exciting! (And a little weird - getting new coasters hasn’t been Thorpe’s thing for years!)

[2542464]

I have to say though I heard back in 2019 that over the next decade Thorpe would be getting 2 coasters - one in the mid decade (so obviously this one) and the next towards the end/ 2030-40 decade so I'm not sure why it's a surprise. I don't think it's any doubt that Thorpe was always going to get a coaster (although I think we're all glad it's gonna be a coaster and not some doomed "experience" like DBGT).

 

I believe I also heard that one of these two coasters would be more family-oriented as opposed to extreme thrill. Guessing, given the location and proximity to Saw:TR this will be more family oriented and the spare island by Swarm will be for the later, more thrilling ride (or more realistically to replace Colossus).

 

If you look at what Thorpe Park call their "exhilarating rides" these tend to be their Tidal Wave; Storm Surge and other "smaller" rides compared to their coasters which they term "adrenaline" (based on their Fast Track package descriptions).

Considering the consultation leaflet called this an "exhilarating" as opposed to "adrenaline" ride we can presume this is more family-oriented and I also think it'll have a height limit of 20 - 30m.

 

The track length of the coaster is really unlikely to exceed 750m and for a standard lift-chain coaster model is likely to be 2 trains with 7 cars = 28 passengers (750m I believe is what Thorpe Park consider a balance between ride experience, throughputs and maintenance costs).

 

That said, my favourite proposal that I'd really love to see (and to prove everything I said above wrong ahaha) is this one on YouTube that's been out for some time now:

 

[BBoyJD10]

Means anything ? 

[ML27]

The “here we go” Gif was posted as soon as theme park Twitter found out…

 

So its pretty likely, it’s related.

 

I saw a video (Merlins Beard I think…) “winds in the east” = east =old town.

 

Think of that, what you will…