CharlieN Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Initialise no fly zones, Halt the oil trade, keep the arms embargo, But don't bomb Syria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 Quite a good little round up of some aspects of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm pretty surprised at the reaction to this, everyone seems to be upset we have started bombing IS in Syria ignoring the fact weve been bombing IS in Iraq now for a number of months, all thats happened is we are now attacking them in their main base. Also saw the following quote re operations in Iraq against IS: UK air strikes so far have killed 305 IS members with NO civilian casualties So I'm not sure why people think suddenly there will be a load of innocent people affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Some reasons why we should not bomb Syria (in my opinion): Since when has bombing these countries ever helped us? All it will help do is radicalise innocent people and allow ISIS to recruit more people. The Syrians don't care who's bombing them, if it's Assad, ISIS, America or US, they will try and escape. Europe is already struggling with a refugee crisis, we can't add to that. This is what IS want. They want to paint a picture of the Western Christians wanting to kill Muslims in Syria, they will portray us as evil monsters to the Syrian people. The excuse of 'oh we bomb Iraq so it's fine to bomb Syria' is pathetic, where has bombing Iraq got us? IS people don't all go out in large groups and stand around for bombs to land on them. They live amongst innocent people, where a dropped bomb will murder everyone. US have been bombing them for over a year, has it helped at all? No, IS have only got stronger. They will retaliate against us, reports this morning saying that the UK is now their next target. ISIS want to draw Western countries into an all out war, we are giving them what they want Maybe we should stop selling arms to the middle east (which ends up in ISIS hands in Syria) Stop and think for a second, we are dropping bombs on another country on our planet. I'm disgusted to be British after this. Mer and Ian-S 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 So I'm not sure why people think suddenly there will be a load of innocent people affected. They've already been affected. 9 million Syrian refugees are displaced across the world because of the Syrian civil war. They're running away from IS (Or whatever, we want to call them), the bombing of their country by the West, from the Assad government. I don't think bombing is the answer to this crisis but I also think letting France, US and Russia do all the work isn't the answer either. There is no clear cut solution to this. Some reasons why we should not bomb Syria (in my opinion): Since when has bombing these countries ever helped us? All it will help do is radicalise innocent people and allow ISIS to recruit more people. The Syrians don't care who's bombing them, if it's Assad, ISIS, America or US, they will try and escape. Europe is already struggling with a refugee crisis, we can't add to that. This is what IS want. They want to paint a picture of the Western Christians wanting to kill Muslims in Syria, they will portray us as evil monsters to the Syrian people. The excuse of 'oh we bomb Iraq so it's fine to bomb Syria' is pathetic, where has bombing Iraq got us? IS people don't all go out in large groups and stand around for bombs to land on them. They live amongst innocent people, where a dropped bomb will murder everyone. US have been bombing them for over a year, has it helped at all? No, IS have only got stronger. They will retaliate against us, reports this morning saying that the UK is now their next target. ISIS want to draw Western countries into an all out war, we are giving them what they want Maybe we should stop selling arms to the middle east (which ends up in ISIS hands in Syria) Stop and think for a second, we are dropping bombs on another country on our planet. I'm disgusted to be British after this. A lot of this is true but don't go down the road of thinking that doing this suddenly makes us a target. We've always been a target because of our close relationship to America and because of our ideals and position in the Western world. I'm not disgusted to be British after this because whilst a majority voted to bomb Syria, a lot of MP's voted against it and this is what a democracy is. Mer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 A lot of this is true but don't go down the road of thinking that doing this suddenly makes us a target. We've always been a target because of our close relationship to America and because of our ideals and position in the Western world. I'm not disgusted to be British after this because whilst a majority voted to bomb Syria, a lot of MP's voted against it and this is what a democracy is. I agree we've always been a target, which has been proven with all the failed attacks. I'm just worried the retaliation to the news of us joining in the bombing could be a sophisticated attack that won't be able to be stopped. They will want to send a message out to the Western world, and it is worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm not any more worried about an attack then before, if we are attacked it will not be because we are bombing Syria and it would of happened anyway, despite what the media may tell you. They've already been affected. 9 million Syrian refugees are displaced across the world because of the Syrian civil war. They're running away from IS (Or whatever, we want to call them), the bombing of their country by the West, from the Assad government. I don't think bombing is the answer to this crisis but I also think letting France, US and Russia do all the work isn't the answer either. There is no clear cut solution to this. I agree with this - the point I was trying to make is we are not going to go and bomb killing 100's of innocent people, as you say the real problem is the civil war and IS gaining more and more power, thats why they must be stopped. Air strikes alone wont stop this, but theres no negotiating with these people, they are monsters and must be stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 ^^ Isn't that what Thatcher said about the IRA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm disgusted to live in a country where the majority of people are conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm disgusted to live in a country where the majority of people are conservative. Only about 17-18% of the country voted Conservative at this year's General Election. Hardly a majority. As for the bombing of Syria, I know very little about the whole scenario, so can't really give any views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm getting on pics art now to make some anti-bomb propaganda... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm getting on pics art now to make some anti-bomb propaganda... Does that make you a terrorist though? Dave said so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Have to say that Hilary Benn made a bloody good speech though ahead of the debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Only about 17-18% of the country voted Conservative at this year's General Election. Hardly a majority. As for the bombing of Syria, I know very little about the whole scenario, so can't really give any views. In the UK 36.9% of people voted for the conservatives. In England that figure rises to 41% (56.1% if you add ukips votes to the conservatives seeing as they had very similar policies and are both to the right politically) You can't count non voters as they didn't vote so presumably they are happy with whoever gets in power. I'm fine with people disagreeing any political party but I would prefer it if they backed their point up with facts and figures rather than what seems to be a made up number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 11.3 million people voted Conservative in this year's General Election. A quick Google search said that the population of the UK was about 64.1 million. Hence the 17-18% figure. That number includes all those who can't vote though. So it turns out about 46.5 million people were registered to vote, and only 11.3 million voted Conservative - about 24%. Again, still hardly a majority. You can count non voters since they will not vote for a variety of reasons and, more importantly, they did note vote Conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Surely Isis would get word Britain will be bombing there bases and flee leaving civilians there who would be unknown to the bombings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 They didn't vote for anyone which is why they shouldn't be counted. If you are able to vote and don't then those people have no right to moan about who is in power. They had the opportunity to vote in various ways and didn't. if a non voter isn't happy with the outcome then tough. If a non voter wants to have their vote counted then they should spoil their ballot. That way they get counted as spoiled ballots which must be counted by law. That way they vote for no one. A vote against government. However often people are so poorly informed they don't know that. Which brings us back to the whole bombing Syria problem of people who don't have a clue about what is going on making ludicrous statements and getting angry over something that isn't true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't disagree with any of that. However, Charlie's point was he was disgusted how many people are Conservative. My point is that only 24% of people identify themselves as Conservative to the level where they can be bothered to vote. And that's not a majority of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Charlie's point was he was disgusted how many people are Conservative. I think in the last election many many people would consider themselves more anti labour than necessarily pro conservative. Labour just seemed so deeply incompetent, especially when it comes to finance, that they weren't a viable alternative. I still think Lib Dems did a really good job in the coalition, keeping a check on the baser evils of the conservatives, but I seem to be in the minority with that one. JoshC., Matt 236 and EC! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 To be honest, I can't see labour regaining their Scottish seats. It makes me think that the tories may have power for at least 2 elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Maybe not. The conservatives want to make savings and as a result they want to remove 50 MPs. Most of which will come from Scotland as they are crazy over represented. Then they will balance out the other seats 'fairly' (massively prefer the conservatives). However you then have to account for UKIP. UKIP voters have a massive influence on the next election as they either take votes away from Con and add to UKIP which helps labour or they abandon UKIP and vote Con which hinders labour. Also it depends on how left Lab go. If they went to the centre then they would stand a far better chance however as the labour party elected an idiot (imo) for its leader I suspect lab will go to the far left and face a much harder election campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Don't call Corbyn an idiot! Personally I'm happy with the left wing approach despite it making labour much less electable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 There's one thing present Labour suffer from and it's a lack of public speaking skills from all their front line people, which makes them look like a bunch of monkeys trying to **** a football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 He rendered our entire nuclear defence useless in one sentence. Literally throwing away billions of pounds of investment away because of some flawed ideology. Imagine how WW2 would have turned out with Corbyn in charge. He is so caught up in his left wings views he has been left out of touch with reality. In my opinion he is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 For people saying it doesn't put us in more danger, someone in London has been stabbed with a machete and the attacker shouted "this is for Syria". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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