SYNAW Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 How are we to know there isn't a genuinely good reason for there being only one train... for example how do you know that there isn't a fault with it that means it cannot run until it is fixed. These rumors and speculation over why they are running one train tend to get ridiculous... such as when Colossus was running only one in the early season and people were even talking about how the maintenance door had not opened and that the train was abroad, when a clear look out of the station exit showed it being worked on. As fans of Thorpe park (and indeed many other theme parks world wide) I would like to think that you don't truly believe that the park is simply trying to grab your money and don't care about our satisfaction. At the end of the day theme parks are a business... if they don't make money they shut down. If They don't make excess money a big new ride wont get built. Every time I have visited as a guest there has been something new, and small changes are made to the park on a very regular basis... it doesn't need to be a huge new ride to be exciting and new, sometimes it can be something small like a new way something is approached by staff or some part of the theming has been fixed. A lot goes unnoticed, but the things that don't work quite as well are made out to be colossal issues. ImLucifer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It wouldn't surprise me if there was a genuine reason, but the park don't do themselves any favours by some of the things they say. Anyway, from a business standpoint it is in theory good business practice to artificially inflate the queue length (by running only one train) in order to bump up fast track ticket sales for the day, although I'm not sure of the logic in doing that on a school trip day when most of the kids won't have any money on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It wouldn't surprise me if there was a genuine reason, but the park don't do themselves any favours by some of the things they say. Anyway, from a business standpoint it is in theory good business practice to artificially inflate the queue length (by running only one train) in order to bump up fast track ticket sales for the day, although I'm not sure of the logic in doing that on a school trip day when most of the kids won't have any money on them. BUT THEY DO NOT DO THIS. Even from a theoretical perspective. Two who control queue times and those who control Fastrack are different people with different aims. Queues are not artificially inflated to increase Fastrack sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Hmmm, 'in theory' if management said don't put a second train on until the queue hit's 90 minutes, but also tell fast track sellers to go stand at the entrance once it reaches 60 minutes, there wouldn't be nothing the boots on the ground could do to change it. In theory of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYNAW Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Again JoshC is correct... The park do not make up queue times to sell fastrack. The operators update their queue times as soon as there is a noticeable change. I really wish people would get over this. It does not happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Well I am talking theoretically, but on a serious note, if you think parks don't actively look into and operate in ways to maximise profits from punters, then that's just being a tad naive on how businesses operate. I also didn't say anything about making up fake queue times, I suggested they could in theory run on one train to artificially extend the queue length in order to boost fast track sales, which is something someone else mentioned they looked like they were doing up thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think the fact that they were selling Fastracks when the ride was on one train says it all to be honest. Whilst they're almost certainly not running one train to boost Fastrack sales, they could be using the situation as an opportunity to sell more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraX Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Again JoshC is correct... The park do not make up queue times to sell fastrack. The operators update their queue times as soon as there is a noticeable change. I really wish people would get over this. It does not happen. No, but it is common for the Fastrack team to stand at the entrance of rides and lie..sorry, exaggerate about queue times. huzzellio, Ian-S, Project LC and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 the queue time on saw said 40 minutes, once and even I could see from the entrance there was blatently not a queue that long, barely anyone waiting in the outdoor queue; so the fast track salesman stood almost blocking the entrancing trying and succeeding selling fast track vouchers to unfortunate guests; when I decided to queue wasn't any more than 15/20 minutes altogether. similar with The Swarm where there was essentially no queue at all before the baggage room, and there was someone selling fast tracks then... so thorpe must pressure their staff so much for sales targets, presumably, that the staff have no morals and will happily sell the fast track tickets knowing the queue isn't as long as advertised (and not inform anyone of the incorrect time! Also in regards to amount of trains... thorpe always seems to be the worst when it comes to one train operation... as far as I'm aware it's down to cost of staff to maintain/check the trains... as when I had a behinds the scenes tour of stealth and Q&A, it was brought up, and apparently it takes 2 hours to check one stealth train every morning, and then every so often more significant checks need to be made, hence why most of the time a second train is added later in the morning, and some midweek days it's on one train so the other can be prepared ready for a busier day(s); which this seems fair enough to an extent, but if more money was spent on maintenance staff, maybe most ride could be on two trains from opening even on quieter days (like alton towers)... as one train operation can turn a nice off peak day into hell! Ian-S 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 At the end of the day theme parks are a business... if they don't make money they shut down. If They don't make excess money a big new ride wont get built. At the end of the day a business doesn't survive without satisfied customers. We've already seen the affect a poor year can have on investment so maybe just annoying people with lame excuses like 'saving electricity' or 'stopping wear and tear' shouldn't be used anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 the queue time on saw said 40 minutes, once and even I could see from the entrance there was blatently not a queue that long, barely anyone waiting in the outdoor queue; so the fast track salesman stood almost blocking the entrancing trying and succeeding selling fast track vouchers to unfortunate guests; when I decided to queue wasn't any more than 15/20 minutes altogether. similar with The Swarm where there was essentially no queue at all before the baggage room, and there was someone selling fast tracks then... so thorpe must pressure their staff so much for sales targets, presumably, that the staff have no morals and will happily sell the fast track tickets knowing the queue isn't as long as advertised (and not inform anyone of the incorrect time! Here in lies the crux of the matter... The "in-your-face" selling aspect seen at all the Merlin attractions is the biggest issue (let alone the over-selling of Fastrack and 1 train operations on a regular basis coupled with the excuses coming from Thorpe)... It makes guests feel like the place only cares about taking the money from your wallet, rather than providing that good day out... Plenty of theme parks succeed without reducing themselves to sending Fastrack people to the entrance of each ride... Hundreds in fact don't run a Fastrack scheme at all, how do they survive? OldFarmerDean 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Plenty of theme parks succeed without reducing themselves to sending Fastrack people to the entrance of each ride... Hundreds in fact don't run a Fastrack scheme at all, how do they survive? A rhetorical question I guess, but simply charging a fair entrance price that's enough to cover costs, and not devaluing yourself with a ludicrously inflated price which is then battered down to outright cheapness by an all encompassing voucher system. Everyone then feels ripped off. Those who think that they do not profit from inflated queue times are being incredibly naive for such intelligent people. I simply do not care (and nor do everyday visitors) how it comes about, which department has this or that responsibility for whatever aspect of the circumstances that lead to it happening. By design or by incompetence, it does happen and it should not happen. I've seen it repeatedly with my own eyes. It'll be the next thing that comes to bite them in the media. Just the sort of thing Watchdog would love... holtjammy16 and Ian-S 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd say that 90% of the time inflated queue times are not for the profit side, it also depends at what time of day these times are, because I certainly remember a few times that I didn't update my queue board (for various reasons)... That was of course a while ago now, and the company has changed more than likely... For operators, changing the queue time is the least of their worries and responsibilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think there's some stuff being lost in translation about 'queue time boards' and 'queue length', I wasn't saying that the person responsible for updating the queue time board at the entrance was being deliberately misleading or was working to a management led agenda, more that the natural running (and throughput) of a ride can be used to control the length of the queue, which in turn management can take advantage of to sell more fast track when the queue get's too long (all the time knowing that by bringing the second train on would alleviate the long queue, and negate the demand for fast track). No business in their right mind is going to put every attraction on maximum capacity at opening time on a week day, they're going to open with the minimum possible and add to that as demand increases, while in the meantime, hard selling fast track at the entrance to anybody with more money than sense. As pluk said it's being incredibly naive to believe some sort of supply and demand manipulation doesn't go on, companies as big as Merlin employ people to sit there and work out how to maximise profts through any means possible, if Merlin was only interested in the experience rather than profit, they wouldn't sell fast track at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paige Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Courtesy of Thorpe's Twitter. Not my query (obviously, I am not called Stephanie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Can't see it, what did it say? BTW, Swarm is presently a two hour queue, on a Thursday, during School term.... Stealth on the other hand, is on a speedy 20 minute walk through... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paige Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Can't see it, what did it say? They stated that the second train is facing 'technical difficulties'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Facing? Does that imply it's been sent to the naughty step? Just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 They only sell half the available tickets per time window if it's on one train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 They only sell half the available tickets per time window Hmmm. According to the park themselves that's not right. They have some bizarre 'proportion of the main queue' fastrack allocation policy which actually increases the number available as the main queue grows, which it inevitably will do on reduced capacity. This is clearly mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think there's some stuff being lost in translation about 'queue time boards' and 'queue length', I wasn't saying that the person responsible for updating the queue time board at the entrance was being deliberately misleading or was working to a management led agenda, more that the natural running (and throughput) of a ride can be used to control the length of the queue, which in turn management can take advantage of to sell more fast track when the queue get's too long (all the time knowing that by bringing the second train on would alleviate the long queue, and negate the demand for fast track). Bit of a misunderstanding on my part here. I thought you were saying that those who control the queue boards were inflating queues to sell Fastrack tickets. Still, it sounds like you're suggesting that at times, the park deliberately don't add a second train to increase Fastrack sales? I don't think that's what you're trying to say, but that's just how I'm reading it! It's seems almost obvious that Thorpe have had budget cuts across their maintenance team in some respect - struggling to get everything open on two trains on busy days is an big indication to that. Naturally such a thing can lead to longer queues and more opportunity to sell Fastrack. I guess looking at the bigger picture, they're making an overall profit - they're saving money from one department and able to make more money from another. Those who think that they do not profit from inflated queue times are being incredibly naive for such intelligent people. I simply do not care (and nor do everyday visitors) how it comes about, which department has this or that responsibility for whatever aspect of the circumstances that lead to it happening. By design or by incompetence, it does happen and it should not happen. I've seen it repeatedly with my own eyes. Just to reiterate my point on this - I totally agree that it does happen; I'm sure everyone on these forums have seen cases where the park has profited from Fastrack because of pushy salesmen, reduced capacity for seemingly unnecessary reasons or other reasons. But the way I've been reading some points on here make it sounds like those who control the queue time boards are inflating queue times on purpose to sell Fastrack. That is simply not the case, and it's one of my personal bugbears when someone suggests it is. Seems I may have misinterpreted some posts though.. No business in their right mind is going to put every attraction on maximum capacity at opening time on a week day, they're going to open with the minimum possible and add to that as demand increases, while in the meantime, hard selling fast track at the entrance to anybody with more money than sense. Have to disagree with you here though. I've seen it happen at plenty of places - open the rides on maximum capacity straight away and be done with it. Let Fastrack be sold to the people who want it and that's that. Towers regularly work like that from my experiences, for an obvious example! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 You're right of course yes. When we arrived at towers everything was on full capacity, it was quiet impressive how everything was chugging along with no queues, perhaps I've just had my eyes opened to the shocking operations at Thorpe and Chessington now lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thorpe need to get themselves sorted out with regards to capacity, opening on one train during peak times and having one of their main coasters stuck on a one train service during busy times really shouldn't be happening. This has been an issue needing attention for a while now but they don't seem to realise this. I do question whether they would have more enthusiasm for improving their operations if Fastrack didn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Alton Towers seem to cope fine with decent capacity and fast track... Why not Thorpe! It just seems logically they don't have the budget for maintenance unfortunately, in turn puts more pressure on the maintenance staff, and eventually (and I hope so Merlin will do something), going to end up regret doin what they're doing and have more and more unhappy guests with the ridiculous queues because of reduced capacity and substantial fast track sales! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 In fairness, there isn't much that can be done if a train is broken and cannot be used... Big difference between being lazy and being unable to actually use... Ian-S and OldFarmerDean 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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