Crash Pad Extension

[JoshC.]

Seems worthy of it's own topic...

Thorpe Park have submitted plans for an extension of the Crash Pad units...until 2024, as read here:

Replacement of existing temporary accommodation with new modular units comprising a maximum of 184 bedrooms and associated buildings and boardwalk for a temporary period expiring 28 February 2024.

Source - http://planning.runnymede.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&PARAM0=183854&XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Runnymede_AA/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Runnymede_AA/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING

A quick look at the plans, submitted this time last week, states the reason for this is:

However, there is a now a need for an extended temporary consent, and an

amended design, due to the following:

1 Further delays in the construction of the permanent hotel and Thorpe

Park’s long-term plan;

2 The need to respond to the very positive customer feedback and

occupancy rates from the existing accommodation on site;

3 The need to better address guest needs and demands; and

4 To allow Thorpe Park to invest in its own overnight accommodation which

would be operated by the Park itself, avoiding the need for third party

involvement.

A few more bits of info which may be of interest:

-Funding for the permanent hotel may not be available before 2020.

-The entire scheme of Crash Pad requires a total investment of £9 million.

-There will be a maximum of 184 rooms in the new-look Crash Pad, including smaller rooms for couples.

-The current Thrill Workshop (next to the Crash Pad) will house all the electrical equipment and other similar things.

-The park only has 1 row of the current Crash Pad shipping containers set up, with a second to be installed "shortly".

-Crash Pad v2.0 will open in time for next season and will occupy a slightly larger space than the current Crash Pad.

All of this information comes from the third link of the plans (which can be seen here - http://planning.runnymede.gov.uk/RBCNGE/ngeResultsForm.aspx?intref=RU.13/0719).

I'll be trawling through the plans a bit more as time goes (this information all comes from the first 4 plans, so some may be a bit skewed / misinterpreted).

Here's a quick look at how this visually changes the look of the Crash Pads:

Now:

The second row (the bottom one) has yet to be added yet, but should be added soon.

Crash Pad v2:

We see a new, smaller, row is added, and can see the smaller rooms (with the smaller rooms, there' 4 rooms per container, as opposed to 3).

However, the biggest point that stands out to me here is this (again, from the third plan, page 8):

Yep, it is likely we will not see a new roller coaster until 2017 (at the earliest...)

Surely a sign of just how badly Thorpe are currently doing?

Edited July 10, 2013 by JoshC.

[alexander]

called it about the hotel getting extended, ugh this is not the news I wanted to hear, at all

[Matt 236]

Aggggggh, this is terrible news. No major coaster for possibly another four years plus more of the shipping container hotels. This is not good news at all and I can't wait that long til the next coaster.

One other thing,is it just me or are the prospects of a permanent hotel appearing to have the chances of Thorpe getting a top spin ?

[ste193]

This is very bad news for thorpe park I fear, lets face it the general public only really go to thorpe park for the roller coasters and with already declining attendance rates I fear that not another coaster addition for that long could be damaging to there attendance rates and to there public image, not to mention the fact I am deeply saddened there going to just stick with the cheap option rather than put some investment in and achieve a lovely hotel like there sisters parks

[BenC]

Great find, Josh!

Worth explicitly calling out that (if I've read this right) Thorpe Park are removing the current Crash Pad entirely and severing their ties with Snoozebox - bad times for Snoozebox, who aren't doing particularly well at the moment (http://www.cityam.com/article/snoozebox-hits-alarm-10m-cash-call).

This means that the new development will be designed and owned by TP - who have apparently chosen not to continue with shipping containers, but still to theme the new installation as a container...

Given the issues of interconnectivity and restrictive room sizes presented by the use of shipping containers, and the space taken up by thick steel dividers between units, Thorpe Park is proposing to use a modular building design which will be themed, clad with profiled steel, and finished to appear as a container. This ensures the concept is retained and the appearance will be unchanged, but the benefits for Thorpe Park in relation to meeting client demand are considerable.

As Crash Pad v2 is Thorpe's baby, it's costing the Park £9m to do - which is why the 10 year lease is required "to provide the required returns to make this a viable project".

Given that The Crash Pad this season "has proven to be popular with members of the public", and Thorpe themselves say "it is fully anticipated that the provision of [permanent] accommodation will be successful – reflecting the situation at other Resort Parks in the Merlin Group", I'm surprised they haven't chosen to do it properly and stump up the £20m required to build, say, a smaller Alton Towers Hotel...

For how many years is this thing going to be pushed back?!

Also agree that the pushing back of the "2015 coaster" by at least 2 years suggests the Park isn't in the healthiest shape at the moment

[Ricky]

Seems worthy of it's own topic...

Surely a sign of just how badly Thorpe are currently doing?

Not necessarily doing bad, they are actually doing rather well as it happens. What I think it is more likely to be is, they want their new Roller Coaster to open with the new hotel as I can only assume they want the next coaster to be bigger and better than ever that they hope many people will flock to the park which needs a bigger and more comfortable hotel.

[Marc]

If they are looking to extend it to 184 rooms they must feel demand is there which can only be a good thing, I'm not sure how the dome would cope with that many people though.

With a travelodge opening in chertsey I guess the park feel they need to compete with the cheaper room market rarther than a full hotel.

Mixed feelings on this really, the crash pad rooms are actually quite decent to be fair and more rooms will bring the prices down too which can only be good.

[JoshC.]

Not necessarily doing bad, they are actually doing rather well as it happens. What I think it is more likely to be is, they want their new Roller Coaster to open with the new hotel as I can only assume they want the next coaster to be bigger and better than ever that they hope many people will flock to the park which needs a bigger and more comfortable hotel.

The thing is, they've only been doing well the past couple of months (from what I hear). The first couple of months this season weren't great, and last year wasn't great visitor-wise. So they are still having problems. And a couple of good months isn't going to stop them being out of a bad situation (if they are in one).

And, to be honest, if they're wanting a coaster to open with a hotel, that's, frankly, a ridiculous idea, for which Thorpe should deserve to suffer. Sorry to sound harsh, but it's just going to harm the park in the short term, and potentially the long term.

[Benin]

Hah, I predicted that they'd rather expand Crash Pad over a new hotel because it's cheaper to create for a quick opening...

Temporary build my arse...

[Dodge2002]

I don't see how delaying a coaster is any indication of how bad the park is doing. Alton Towers went 8 whole years without a new "thrill" rollercoaster. (it's safe to say TH13TEEN is nothing more than a family attraction.)

If anything, this affirms what we already know, the next few years will be about bringing back the families. My thoughts on the matter are next year it'll be a flat, then followed by a smaller family coaster.

From what I've been told the park is smashing their year on year growth hugely too. The hotel is almost always at full occupancy, their MoS club nights have been a massive success and the buzz about the park is generally positive (I.e they didn't manage to open a coaster 2 months late, which then breaks down every other day *cough* smiler *cough*)

As for the extension I think this really does all link in to a huge shift of marketing. Merlin want to see Thorpe make it happen and make it a success before they fork over a penny.

[Benin]

From what I've been told the park is smashing their year on year growth hugely too. The hotel is almost always at full occupancy, their MoS club nights have been a massive success and the buzz about the park is generally positive (I.e they didn't manage to open a coaster 2 months late, which then breaks down every other day *cough* smiler *cough*)

Ah yes, I remember the smooth sailing of Stealth's opening year (and beyond)...

We gotta be honest, this (and last year) for the park have not been great in regards to constant busyness like the years gone by, especially when you look at said northern park which seems since Smiler opened (since lots of people held their trips off, as predicted) extremely busy everyday...

IF they are looking to really bring in the high end premium family market from now, then how is adding MORE cheap as hell shipping container hotel boxes going to promote this change? A theme park hotel should not be looking to be a direct competitor with a Travelodge, it should be better than one at minimum (which cannot really be said of Towers' two mind, but at least they don't have a Little Chef as the meal option)... Will more rooms really bring the price down? What evidence actually provides this idea?

As for opening the hotel with a new coaster, there is logic, but what if said coaster fails? Then they have a problem in too much expense too little return, it's a risky strategy unless the new ride was a definite hit with the public...

Also, how does this cost them £9 million? Like, seriously? £9 million on shipping container rooms? HOW? Surely filling these things with IKEA furniture can't cost that much? Mental costings if true, because that's £9 million that could be spent on tarting the park up more to help bring in those new market audience...

[BigBobJones]

For such a dramatic change and scale-up, Thorpe must see some value with the Crash Pad.

As for the 2015/2016/2017 coaster, this is very disappointing news for all people, this could be a big reason for people not to renew annual passes or visit as there is nothing new. ON the bright side there are lots of locations for flat rides, which have been marked in the MTDP and this doesn't mean that we don't get a family coaster or an indoor dark ride or something.

[EC!]

I just can't fathom how its cost them £9mil surely this money could be better spent around the park for, oh I don't know refurbishments as some rides **cough cough Colossus cough cough** look awful at the moment and like someone ( I can't remember who said it) said thorpe is usually seen as a park that often regenerates itself by adding new rides and attractions so if the isnt going to be for a long period of time the people are going to loose interest and go to the likes of Chessie and Alton Towers.

[Dan9]

I just can't fathom how its cost them £9mil surely this money could be better spent around the park for, oh I don't know refurbishments as some rides **cough cough Colossus cough cough** look awful at the moment and like someone ( I can't remember who said it) said thorpe is usually seen as a park that often regenerates itself by adding new rides and attractions so if the isnt going to be for a long period of time the people are going to loose interest and go to the likes of Chessie and Alton Towers.

Go to Chessington instead? Because Thorpe haven't been investing enough?... Chessington?

I guess the decision to spend more on the Crash Pad will have been thought through using data collected from the year so far. Whilst it's painful to see such funding available but not for refurb, they must be looking at the long term benefit the extra units will bring. If there were already any plans to refurb rides or areas of the park, I doubt they'd be stopped purely as a result of this.

[Ricky]

I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture, the budget they have are whittled down in departments and the £9m is the budget that is soaked up by The Crash Pad as investment not development.

Take 2013 for example, they splashed out on development on both X and The Swarm but still decided to give nearly every building on site a lick of paint. Even decided to fix some scenery across the park (albeit some no longer work, again) they still are spending money on development.

I'm certain they won't just stop developing until the next big coaster.

[AJ]

I'm just really glad that I have a park nearby with such a good selection of thrill rides. I don't really know any other park that had built 5 major coasters in just over 10 years with many flats and a temporary hotel.

Yes it has in the past been growing because of all the new additions but, over 10 years ago it was a completely different park. They needed to establish themselves as the thrill capital in the UK, and offer a great selection of rides rather than some predictable rides they used to have. Thorpe Park have now established themselves - the name is known - people know what it offers. 10 years ago it was just starting to be noticed.

Alton Towers & Chessington have been established for much longer on the radar map and when they have had little investment on some of the years as they were established they have still survived and in some cases even thrived due to the marketing of that year. Now Thorpe Park are established - yes it would be lovely to have a great investment and I want MORE MORE MORE, but I also know I have been spoilt and been getting to used to something coming every year.

Even though I'm likely not to use the Crash Pad, knowing the extra events that have come about due to it being there and in the long run will attract a different market - I can only see good things for the long term future of the park. Yes some people will not come again for a while but how they market themselves will also bring new people to the park and replace those that didn't want to come back again the following season.

[Benin]

>Become known as "THRILL CAPITAL"

>Change audience due to the teenage market being aimed at not being successful

>Change to families who might have been disillusioned by the original "THRILL CAPITAL" marketing

>Aim to draw in families with low quality product

I'm more towards getting in the quality, getting a new coaster in 2015/16/17/whenever isn't the thing (blah blah airtime machine blah conversation is overdone somewhat), but to invest further into something like this when you also want to bring in the families who will want space to stay in and a quality product is insanely confusing... Unless the family market thing is now being reverted...

It's a confusing decision to go for the CrashPad expansion (sans losing money to the original runners) when they might as well go for a full on hotel experience instead, since CrashPad is doing so well and the 'trial' it was must have been insanely successful to prove to investors that a hotel is a viable option...

[Mark9]

I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture, the budget they have are whittled down in departments and the £9m is the budget that is soaked up by The Crash Pad as investment not development.

Exactly. Whilst Thorpe continue cramming people into shipping containers, we can enjoy the wonders of Belle Rock or Colosseo and enjoy a top quality theme park in the process. If anything, Thorpe's doing you all a favour.

This is very bad news for thorpe park I fear, lets face it the general public only really go to thorpe park for the roller coasters and with already declining attendance rates I fear that not another coaster addition for that long could be damaging to there attendance rates and to there public image

Nah. In years gone by, The Swarm would have been a top rate hit, but last year, Thorpe proved that building a top quality rollercoaster isn't always giving to reward. I think that ride taught the park some valuable lessons, cramming lots of rollercoasters in a short space of time can only go so far.

[Matt 236]

Though towers had two coasters in three years, I suppose that is different because of the five year gap between Thirteen ad Rita as well as the fact one is a thrilling family coaster whilst the other is a thrill machine (despite what the park's classification of Thirteen).

[MarkC]

And now the plans have been WITHDRAWN?

The link no longer works to my knowledge...

[Mitchada04]

I thought that earlier but if you go the long way (Google Runnymede Borough Council planning application search and put Thorpe Park in the site address bar) it works and gives you the whole list of Thorpes planning applications.

[JoshC.]

And now the plans have been WITHDRAWN?

The link no longer works to my knowledge...

Not sure what happened there; might've just been the site updating or something. I've updated the links, so hopefully they'll stay working.

I think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture, the budget they have are whittled down in departments and the £9m is the budget that is soaked up by The Crash Pad as investment not development.

Take 2013 for example, they splashed out on development on both X and The Swarm but still decided to give nearly every building on site a lick of paint. Even decided to fix some scenery across the park (albeit some no longer work, again) they still are spending money on development.

I'm certain they won't just stop developing until the next big coaster.

Very true. However, this isn't all the of the big picture, at least how I see it.

Whilst they won't stop developing, it is fair to say the past few non-coaster year development have been somewhat...poor. In the past 10 years, there's been 7 which have been non-coaster development years, and I'd say 2 of them were actually substantial / of any good (2005 and 2013). The rest have seen very cheap attractions which have either been poor or have not lasted (and Flying Fish, I guess, which isn't exactly a large or special development to any degree really).

If the next major coaster isn't going to come until 2017, at the earliest, what will we see in the way of park developments now? Will we see year after year of cheapo attractions which add next to nothing to the current line up, or are gone in a couple of years time? Okay, we may see the park's presentation and overall standard improved, but will that bring in the customers? Though, in saying that, 2011 was the park's busiest year (in terms of number of visitors, I think?), so maybe it's not all bad?

Whilst I'm probably thinking of the worst case scenario here, I find it hard not to take into account the park have struggled to have successful developments aside from their coasters recently. I don't quite know how budgeting for rides works, but I doubt it will simply be the case that because they're delaying the next coaster, they can invest more into other rides and such. So, it will be interesting to see how the next couple of years go for the park.

[Ricky]

What I was more gettin at is the difference between an investment and development. People keep saying 'the park will no lifer receive development because one investment has been moved'.

Development in a theme park is taking something you have and developing it into something new or regenerating the original. For instance - the park did a bit of development on some buildings - a lick of paint, they developed something old into something new.

Development - where the park will pump money into the park on what they have.

Investment is buying some new to bring in the guests. For instance last year they received The Swarm, a £20m investment.

If we took these two different words into The Swarm it would go:

2012 - £20m investment

2013 - (don't know how much it cost) development. They developed the product they had to give it a different edge.

At the end of the day, the park won't stop receiving development or investment because they decided the better thing to do is to delay there next big thing a couple of years.

I'd like to think of it more as, this way the parks more likely to go through a phase of development rather than massive investment.

If they want to spend the next 3/4 years developing the park, we may see major spruce ups to the park making the park look less like a cesspit and more like a theme park! I would rather them work on what they have a take a slow train to the next big thing than let he rest of the park go further into the landfill.

That's just my take on it anyway.

[Mad Coaster Man]

Not good news at all for me... Over the past few years I've visited Thorpe Park less and less often. With the addition of my GCSE's next year, I'll be seriously considering whether it's worth renewing my pass for now. Well done Thorpe...

[Marc]

Out of interest why would this stop you renewing your pass? (unless your a hotel enthusiast!)

The park still has the same rides, and will continue to invest, they just clearly feel that a full hotel isnt right for them at this time. Crash pad has clearly had good guest feedback (otherwise they wouldnt consider this) so I dont see the real issue with this.