Marc Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 ^ Aren't the lights in the main arena (ie. except for the lift hill laser) just on a loop? They may well loop if a train isn't dispatched - but after each dispatch the sequence restarts, you can tell this as the lights do exactly the same thing every ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Aside from that it has unique light/sound setups for each train that actually work in sync rather than constantly... And it's more inspired than Primeval Whirl... No doubt RnR is better but I'm not calling it a dark ride. Oh yeah I try to forget about that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I agree with Mark on this one... Lets keep X (Ride) in the X topic and the currently non-existing new ride in this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 The bag drop thing is odd. You can take your bag on rides like Spiderman (all while Universal aren't letting you have ANYTHING in your pockets at the moment on Rip Ride Rokit and Hulk) so we can't even say that's a H&S culture thing (probably). Unless the ride vehicles aren't going to have a floor? Possible tilting forward cars with screens on the ground? Who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Spiderman vehicles are enclosed and in reality barely move, the same can't be said of the coasters, so the reasoning is pretty obvious. This will clearly have an element that necessitates a bag drop; either sudden movements, ride carriage design or the need to squeeze through tight spaces. The more I look at those plans the more I think a Nemesis-Sub-Terror-a-like drop element could be included. That separate show building just looks to fit. Hopefully followed by something better than a bolted on maze if it is! OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 God please no. Please don't let it be a crappy drop tower. Cal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 God please no. Please don't let it be a crappy drop tower. It'll be WAY better than a Vengeance clone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 God please no. Please don't let it be a crappy drop tower. A - I do not think they would build a giant almost two story high building for a drop tower that goes a couple of meters underground. It would be financially exhausting, way beyond anything we would ever see in a Merlin park. Remember this will be one of Merlin's most expensive investments since overtaking Tussauds in 2007. If it where going to be a drop tower similar to Nemesis Sub Terra, we would see more of an underground square like structure. Aa - This has a large maintenance yard, meaning that the ride is of a much larger scale that it requires space in order to carry out maintenance on a scale similar to a roller coaster or ride with multiple vehicles . Sub Terra does not have such yard, nor does any drop tower in the world that I know of. B - A drop tower of any kind would be pointless due to the fact they have detonator barely 30 meters away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I didn't mean it seriously. It would be one hyped up drop tower. I think its an AGV based ride. Lots of things you can do with that and they are easy to run efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I think it's a good move on thorpe's part choosing a dark ride for the 'next big thing'. A good dark ride can be immersive, well themed and an experience for younger riders as well. I think it could be a real crowd puller if it does well. If it's an IP, then I just hope it meets up to the standards and actually represents the storyline. If not, it could be a disaster. It could easily go two ways, it could be a major success with a well themed queueline and an amazing dark ride experience inside or it could crash to the ground with a cattlepen queueline with no theming and a boring, non-immersive experience inside. I really hope thorpe do this right. Kerfuffle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I really hope thorpe do this right. ^ The exact words of enthusiasts everywhere! Gggggggg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 I sort of forgot to mention this but I only think it will work if there is a clear storyline. There needs to be good theming as well as a clear story, which is explained before you board the ride. This is needed, especially if it's an IP or otherwise it's never going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 The build is another important thing to as it helps set the scene. Hex does this well, Duel does this well as does W&G in some degrees. I fear a big cattlepen with things at the side will not build up the story to well (unless the queue moves super fast). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Wallace and Gromit to me represents the wrong side of what should be aimed for... A mish mash of IP scenes from multiple sources that dont actually link up together... Very old school, very Blackpool, but not what should be the target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 A good dark ride shouldn't need a good 'storyline' to be successful and exciting, as it's proven that many people completely disengage and don't make effort to watch the story unfold when they go on a ride. Unless you mean there should be a clear progression of events, there should be the ethos of storytelling, which I completely agree with. It should feel like an adventure with a beginning and end, leading to an exciting climax, but should not rely on a 'plot' as such. It's surprisingly difficult to narrate a storyline in a dark ride and this is why many have been unpopular in the past, even if the story is really clever. I guess that's why so many these days have cop out "video preshows" to inject the story in you, in the most dull way while you queue. A TV screen is not how to excitingly set up a theme, it's just become the convention. I'm 90% sure it will be an IP dark ride. One reason for this is that it relies entirely on people being ALREADY aware of the 'story' before they go in. So there's really no need to introduce any new concepts or characters to the rider in the relatively short time they spend in the attraction, no challenge posed. With an IP you are taking no risks about whether the riders will like or understand the characters and concept you have created, since you didn't create them, and you are guaranteed that people will come to your park to ride it. No creative risks, guaranteed popularity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 but the creative risks are what can potentially make something amazing... could have an IP though and still be rubbish.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 but the creative risks are what can potentially make something amazing...Exactly, that's just it. But money and popularity come before making an amazing ride these days. Theme parks have always been a business making money, but the industry is now so business-led rather than creative-led that really great projects are getting rarer. So I'm interested to see how this turns out. OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Tuckwell Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'm 90% sure it will be an IP dark ride. One reason for this is that it relies entirely on people being ALREADY aware of the 'story' before they go in. So there's really no need to introduce any new concepts or characters to the rider in the relatively short time they spend in the attraction, no challenge posed. With an IP you are taking no risks about whether the riders will like or understand the characters and concept you have created, since you didn't create them, and you are guaranteed that people will come to your park to ride it. No creative risks, guaranteed popularity... Unless you use a theme or concept that people are already familiar with... For example, you didn't need it explaining about a Swarm attack... It just happened and although the queue TV's give a story while you queue, if you happen to have a quiet day and miss them, you don't miss anything because you already understand the concept of alien invasion... The only one I can think of that you NEED to have seen the queue-line footage for a back story, otherwise there are some plot holes is Nemesis Sub-Terra... But then again, this was something shoehorned in to a theme to lengthen the life of the Nemesis brand Slight detour of that point... Do you think that the Dark Ride we are seeing in 2016 is in any way related to the Swarm Extension Dark Ride that we didn't see in 2013, just in a different location due to land settling etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Unless you use a theme or concept that people are already familiar with...For example, you didn't need it explaining about a Swarm attack... It just happened and although the queue TV's give a story while you queue, if you happen to have a quiet day and miss them, you don't miss anything because you already understand the concept of alien invasion...And The Swarm was considered a disappointment by Merlin exactly because of the confusion around the theme and its brand, in fact it's a case in point. But The Swarm is a rollercoaster, so even without the theme it still has something good to entertain guests with, which is not the case with a dark ride. And if you do miss the queueline TVs in The Swarm, you probably have a much more pleasant ride experience because you havn't been treated to a badly scripted, characterlessly acted video while you wait. The only one I can think of that you NEED to have seen the queue-line footage for a back story, otherwise there are some plot holes is Nemesis Sub-Terra... But then again, this was something shoehorned in to a theme to lengthen the life of the Nemesis brandSub Terra was an unfortunate disaster, the original plan was so flawed that it now relies on not one but three video points to make any sense. Two of which were drafted in very late when they realised the mistakes they made in delivering the story. Sub Terra was testing the waters if you like for a small spin off dark ride like the one proposed to follow up The Swarm. No wonder it was shelved, although it might have been very good, we'll never know. pluk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Am I the only one that thinks Sub Terra was actually really fun and a bit of a laugh? I can see it has it's bad points, but I don't get the serious hate for it. StealthRider, TPJames and OldFarmerDean 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 It is now, it has been adjusted into something I quite enjoy too, but to have experienced the first incarnation is to know how not to present a ride. That evolution is all very well with a filler ride but something on the scale we are hoping for at Thorpe will be too big to fix like that I'd imagine, so they better get it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Yeah Sub Terra is a fun ride that I enjoy now but wouldn't queue more than 15 minutes for. I know some of the people involved in its construction and it wasn't a pleasant sounding project at all. The original version, which was considered 'finished' by the design team, sounded really rather shocking. Dark rides are almost always touched up and improved post opening, but this really shouldn't have been opened in the state it was. Considering the scale and budget of this 2016 ride, I'm sure more attention will be paid now so hopefully those mistakes won't be made again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 as mentioned though couldn't a drop tower section though be included as part of the experience... not the main ride itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I didn't experience the original NST, but from what I've heard of it, it was awful and just didn't make sense. It's almost worrying to think that those who worked on it would have thought that how it opened would have worked. The current way it works though is great in my opinion; I really really enjoy it. With this ride, as others have said, I expect they'll want to get it right first time. There's no room for mistakes. Of course, there'll be slight tweaks within the first couple of months (after all, most dark rides / mazes see such tweaks; sometimes you don't know what's best until guests try it after all!), but they can't afford for it to open and just not 'work' like NST. However, given that this is a major project for not just Thorpe, but Merlin too (and, if an IP is involved, that company too), there'll be plenty of people working on this to ensure it opens with the highest quality possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 A good dark ride shouldn't need a good 'storyline' to be successful and exciting, as it's proven that many people completely disengage and don't make effort to watch the story unfold when they go on a ride. Unless you mean there should be a clear progression of events, there should be the ethos of storytelling, which I completely agree with. It should feel like an adventure with a beginning and end, leading to an exciting climax, but should not rely on a 'plot' as such. It's surprisingly difficult to narrate a storyline in a dark ride and this is why many have been unpopular in the past, even if the story is really clever. I guess that's why so many these days have cop out "video preshows" to inject the story in you, in the most dull way while you queue. A TV screen is not how to excitingly set up a theme, it's just become the convention. So how do you feel about Hex? Tower of Terror? Indiana Jones? Forbidden Journey? Would you enjoy Hex more if there was not a screen based pre-show? Do you prefer when you can skip through queue videos or are forced to watch them? I see very little correlation with the IPs used and the ride quality normally. I'm not bothered about Cars or Terminator but I really enjoy their attractions. I like Toy Story but I'm ambivalent about Midway Mania and dislike Buzz. Good IP based attractions will fuel interest in the franchise rather than only appealing to fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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