Altitude Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 It's not just the fact that's it 'rough', it's just a very boring uninspired layout and frankly a pile of ****e with a dead IP attached to it Whilst I agree about the dead IP, I have to disagree with your comment on the layout. Obviously it's just your opinion anyway so it's not fact, but I really don't think it's that awful. It has a mix of inversions, plus a mix of dark ride, small drops and a roller coaster. It has an interesting, unusual drop (and whether you like the drop or not doesn't matter, it's still unusual for a coaster), and it has a mix of fast-snappy elements with longer ones too. If Saw's layout is uninspiring, then so is Stealth's, but pretty much everyone loves that coaster. TPJames 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Whilst I agree about the dead IP, I have to disagree with your comment on the layout. Obviously it's just your opinion anyway so it's not fact, but I really don't think it's that awful. It has a mix of inversions, plus a mix of dark ride, small drops and a roller coaster. It has an interesting, unusual drop (and whether you like the drop or not doesn't matter, it's still unusual for a coaster), and it has a mix of fast-snappy elements with longer ones too. If Saw's layout is uninspiring, then so is Stealth's, but pretty much everyone loves that coaster. No one was talking about Stealth, plus, despite being an uninspired layout, it actually works as it does. It doesn't try to be anything than it's not. Stealth's theme and general idea for the coaster is that of Merlin, whereas SAW is just a poor attempt of recreating the films and the ride it self is awful (opinion, not fact). The fluidity and general roughness is the main part that makes it poor, along with the horrific IP. Had they actually gone with an original idea, they would've got more for their buck considering a lot of the budget was probably acquiring it in the first place. The general layout isn't that bad and is probably the best part about the ride itself, but that's not saying much. Also, people trying to act as if the 'roughness' works in the aid of the theme is like saying Colossus is better rusty because it wouldn't look good clean and fresh as it wouldn't fit in with theme of Lost City (real quote from someone on Tower Times, god bless them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 The fluidity and general roughness is the main part that makes it poor, along with the horrific IP. Had they actually gone with an original idea, they would've got more for their buck considering a lot of the budget was probably acquiring it in the first place. The general layout isn't that bad and is probably the best part about the ride itself, but that's not saying much. You said earlier the layout was "uninspired", but now you're saying it's not a complete pile of ****e? I'm not really sure what you're getting at. The IP isn't horrific. It's worked. Like I said it still pulls the longest queues, even though there hasn't been a SAW film in years. People still come to ride the coaster, how is that a "horrific IP"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If Thorpe really wanted to make the actual ride of Saw a death trap, they'd have gone with Intamin, not Gerstlauer. (Too soon? ) On a more serious note, whilst Saw hasn't had any more films for 3 years(?), I wouldn't exactly say it's dead. An 8th film has been widely rumoured for release soon, and it's very iconic - many people would put it up there with Friday the 13th and Scream I'd argue. Even if it's not the greatest franchise ever, it will last. I think given the time it was built (ie - when they were focusing purely on thrills and 16-34 year olds), it was the best IP they could go for if they wanted a horror film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Saw is a good ride it has it's intense moments for me the final dive loop really gets my adrenalin pumping (Funny I don't have any Adrenalin but ah well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paige Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I think saw's problem is that its just a bad ride. Its too short, too rough, very little airtime, no intense sections. I don't particularly like SAW myself but I don't think it's that short at all; infact I *think* that it's only shorter than the likes of Inferno and X (correct me if I'm wrong). The roughness yes is terrible and can leave some people with a headache- especially if you get a rough car- but that's a bit of pot luck really. Yes, SAW doesn't have much airtime, but I do often I feel as though I'm being practically thrown off my seat on the airtime hill, and I personally find the exit from the dive loop fairly intense (and I don't often find things intense ). SAW isn't the greatest ride ever, at all, but I'd also have preferred this to the potential woodie that would've stood in it's place. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Gersts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 You said earlier the layout was "uninspired", but now you're saying it's not a complete pile of ****e? I'm not really sure what you're getting at. The IP isn't horrific. It's worked. Like I said it still pulls the longest queues, even though there hasn't been a SAW film in years. People still come to ride the coaster, how is that a "horrific IP"? It is a complete pile of ****e. The layout is probably the biggest redeeming factor, I didn't mean to say that it was good, it's like a polished turd, the layout being the polish. Not when I've visited does SAW have the longest queues, it's usually Inferno or Stealth. Also, regarding people coming to ride it: did I mean that it didn't bring in crowds for the park? No. Does that make it a good IP as well as a good ride? No. It's like saying any song that has gone to #1 is good because it's sold a lot of copies. Nemesis doesn't usually have a longer queue than Rita, does that make Rita a better ride? I have the same attitude to most IP 'themed rides' outside Universal/Disney, they stick out like a sore thumb, and aren't usually pulled off well. Merlin did probably the best they could with it and with the budget but I prefer rides that are a bit more original and haven't had half the work done for them already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 ^ Saw isn't a good ride in your opinion though. It is a good IP. It made money. Doesn't matter whether you (one person on the internet) likes it or not. It did it's job. IPs are used to make money. As for your poor music comment, again, it's your opinion. Music is a form of entertainment, and if a song reaches #1, it means people are being entertained and buying the song. And because it's making money, it's a "good song", even if it isn't to everyone's taste. Why do you think most artists even create music? It's passion, and money. You might like metal music, I don't. That means for you, metal music is "good" because it entertains you. Whereas I hate it because it doesn't entertain me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzellio Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Also, people trying to act as if the 'roughness' works in the aid of the theme is like saying Colossus is better rusty because it wouldn't look good clean and fresh as it wouldn't fit in with theme of Lost City (real quote from someone on Tower Times, god bless them). Sounding a bit derogatory there to be honest. I see nothing wrong with saying what I did about Saw. The roughness DOES work in the theme's favour, just as people can say Colossus DOES now fit the theme with its rustiness. It may not be deliberate but these things sometimes just happen and work out. I know it's personal preference but I would take a rough Saw, Colossus or Smiler over a super smooth ride like Air or something any day. Actually, that makes it sound like I'm hating on it, I'm not, but when I go on a ride I want to feel like I've done something intense and frankly brutal. I certainly don't want to relax in complete comfort. As for the IP, I see no problem with it, it helped pull the crowds at launch and the ride is still going strong. Does a horror film IP have to be current then? I don't think so. It's a well known IP and will remain so for a long time. Altitude and Cal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paige Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I have the same attitude to most IP 'themed rides' outside Universal/Disney, they stick out like a sore thumb, and aren't usually pulled off well. Merlin did probably the best they could with it and with the budget but I prefer rides that are a bit more original and haven't had half the work done for them already. +1 I just hope that Thorpe don't try to renew Lionsgate's contract again, I'd like to see what they could do with the ride themselves. Sadly I have a feeling that it's still got a good few years in it, possible beyond the contract if the FN go well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If Saw's IP was that bad, then I really don't see why they would go on to add Saw Alive and an entire event using Lionsgate IPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 The Saw IP won't be going anywhere in the near future. Yes they're new main target is families but they aren't going to change Saw, it is a crowd puller. No matter what you think of the ride itself, it is the ride people talk about most, "you been on that Saw ride yet" "oh yeah the place with Saw." It is what it is and it's here to stay, it has the longest queue out of the coasters most of the time (don't say that's because of throughput, it's because people are willing to wait that long, they don't go in thinking "oh I hope this has a high throughput," Gringotts showed this along with many Disney attractions that people will wait hours on end). Whilst the sawmill looked good and original, it wouldn't have been anywhere near as popular as Saw. It's the name, it's the same with all IPs. The adverts do the job just by throwing the IP name at you! And the Lionsgate partnership for Fright Night just shows that this theme is going no where any time soon. alexander, th13teen and Altitude 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I don't really want to go too much into my reasons why I like Saw, since I've done it before here - http://forum.maniahub.com/blog/10/entry-309-why-saw-is-actually-a-really-good-coaster/ (checky little plug I know ). However, my views have changed a bit (I certainly don't think it's a "really good" coaster ), so just some quick rambles... Saw has an alright mixture of everything you'd want from a great coaster. There's a (admittedly loose) story there. An indoor section with some nice tricks, interactive elements and theming. A snappy outdoor section. People complain about ride time, but it does total up to 100 seconds if you're in the second car, which isn't exactly bad in my opinion. There's inversions, a couple of good drops, a very nice airtime hill (as long as your restraints isn't too tight, you can get very decent airtime) and intensity. However, it seems to fall short at at least two or three of these things for everybody - the intensity can be painful for people. The indoor theming isn't immersive enough. The story isn't really there. The outdoor section feels too short. etc. etc. It has all the right things there, just not enough of it. I will forever say that Saw isn't rough, just intense. I've only ever experienced the 'jolt' on the main drop once for example. But hey, that's all down to opinion. But I do think it's hard to say Saw isn't intense or has no airtime; I would disagree with anyone who says that. The IP has done really well due to the sheer icon status of Saw (like it or not). It's one of the best received rides on park by guests. I quite like the idea of horror-film themed Fright Nights as well, and I do hope that can continue. Though, in saying that, the idea of IP-based rides here, there and everywhere is less of an appeal to me. One or two, fine. Loads of attractions? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GladiatorFanKyle Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I think the roughness of saw (although its usually smooth for me but was a bit rough at the tpm meet on saturday) works really well cause you are meant to feel like you have survived. The story of the ride is showing you what could happen if you dont play the game? Quote me if I'm wrong but thats the general idea I think huzzellio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 the final dive loop really gets my adrenalin pumping... ...and gets my head banging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I don't really want to go too much into my reasons why I like Saw, since I've done it before here - http://forum.maniahub.com/blog/10/entry-309-why-saw-is-actually-a-really-good-coaster/ (checky little plug I know ). However, my views have changed a bit (I certainly don't think it's a "really good" coaster ), so just some quick rambles... Saw has an alright mixture of everything you'd want from a great coaster. There's a (admittedly loose) story there. An indoor section with some nice tricks, interactive elements and theming. A snappy outdoor section. People complain about ride time, but it does total up to 100 seconds if you're in the second car, which isn't exactly bad in my opinion. There's inversions, a couple of good drops, a very nice airtime hill (as long as your restraints isn't too tight, you can get very decent airtime) and intensity. However, it seems to fall short at at least two or three of these things for everybody - the intensity can be painful for people. The indoor theming isn't immersive enough. The story isn't really there. The outdoor section feels too short. etc. etc. It has all the right things there, just not enough of it. I will forever say that Saw isn't rough, just intense. I've only ever experienced the 'jolt' on the main drop once for example. But hey, that's all down to opinion. But I do think it's hard to say Saw isn't intense or has no airtime; I would disagree with anyone who says that. The IP has done really well due to the sheer icon status of Saw (like it or not). It's one of the best received rides on park by guests. I quite like the idea of horror-film themed Fright Nights as well, and I do hope that can continue. Though, in saying that, the idea of IP-based rides here, there and everywhere is less of an appeal to me. One or two, fine. Loads of attractions? No thanks. Ride time is great and all but a lot of that is rolling through blocks or being held on them. I have no idea how you've managed to avoid the jolt since you can see where rider's heads slam their restraints if you watch the drop. It's almost every car. I think the airtime hill is incredibly weak and even comparing it to Thorpe's other coasters, I would say Colossus and Stealth do a better job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 ^ Saw isn't a good ride in your opinion though. It is a good IP. It made money. Doesn't matter whether you (one person on the internet) likes it or not. It did it's job. IPs are used to make money. As for your poor music comment, again, it's your opinion. Music is a form of entertainment, and if a song reaches #1, it means people are being entertained and buying the song. And because it's making money, it's a "good song", even if it isn't to everyone's taste. Why do you think most artists even create music? It's passion, and money. You might like metal music, I don't. That means for you, metal music is "good" because it entertains you. Whereas I hate it because it doesn't entertain me. I've said that's in my opinion throughout my post. I've never said it was fact. It's a good IP in a sense for the business that was rewarding for Merlin, but generally there are a lot better ones out there. That wasn't me saying that every thing that goes #1 on the charts is bad, I'm just saying bulk sales in something doesn't make it good. Merlin is a business, and I understand why they've put the IP on because it's going to pull the GP in, I just think it's lazy and the ride itself isn't great. There's only so many ways I could portray my point as I seem to be repeating it. I don't have anything against liking SAW because that's their preference, but you've gotta recognise the flaws it has. Sounding a bit derogatory there to be honest. I see nothing wrong with saying what I did about Saw. The roughness DOES work in the theme's favour, just as people can say Colossus DOES now fit the theme with its rustiness. It may not be deliberate but these things sometimes just happen and work out. I know it's personal preference but I would take a rough Saw, Colossus or Smiler over a super smooth ride like Air or something any day. Actually, that makes it sound like I'm hating on it, I'm not, but when I go on a ride I want to feel like I've done something intense and frankly brutal. I certainly don't want to relax in complete comfort. As for the IP, I see no problem with it, it helped pull the crowds at launch and the ride is still going strong. Does a horror film IP have to be current then? I don't think so. It's a well known IP and will remain so for a long time. Because it's ridiculous to excuse a rides flaws as a way of making out it's meant to be like that. 'Fitting in with the theme' is not an excuse to have the ride looking like it's falling apart. I actually like Colossus, and I like Smiler, both rides which I don't find as atrocious as SAW. But, as already expressed, is all opinion, if you like SAW, that's great, but I don't agree with you and that's fine cos everyone has a different opinion. No, it doesn't have to be current, and I've already stated that it has pulled the crowds in, and Thorpe have actually given it a new form of life, I'm just not a fan of the IP and in my opinion (although I shouldn't have to state this as it's pretty obvious my posts are opinionated) it's not a good one, not because of it's performance being tagged onto a ride, but as it affecting the ride it was going to be, and not being a great (opinion) film franchise. But that's another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Ride time is great and all but a lot of that is rolling through blocks or being held on them. I have no idea how you've managed to avoid the jolt since you can see where rider's heads slam their restraints if you watch the drop. It's almost every car. I think the airtime hill is incredibly weak and even comparing it to Thorpe's other coasters, I would say Colossus and Stealth do a better job. Get what you're saying about ride time, but at least for all but one of them, there's actually something happening (story telling, effects) as opposed to 'just' rolling through. Should probably have been clearer - I do sometimes notice the jolt, but there's only been one time when it's actually negatively effected my ride experience. I find moments on Colossus, Smiler, etc worse than that. Personally I've found the airtime hill has always been the best. Colossus' air time hill is good, though I prefer it for the fact it can feel like you're about to collide into the shop. Stealth's for me doesn't do a lot since the breaks kick in pretty much half way through, sucking out any enjoyment. I guess the restraints could be a cause of that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I feel the same as JoshC. I'm not Stealth's biggest fan, but I too personally prefer the airtime on SAW. I've ridden rides in the UK and in California, and SAW still remains one of my favourites. No, it's not smooth. Lets not make excuses. Some cars are worse, and for a ride of it's age, it shouldn't be rough. Yes, you can see everyone's heads jolt on the drop, but sorry have you watched people on Colossus? Do you see some of the negative comments about Colossus on there? For me, SAW is rough but not rough enough to make it unpleasant for most of the time. There's no excuse for the jolt, but at the same time groups of three naturally filter to the far side of the cars, thus, when it's going round, there's always more weight passing over the right rail (in direction of travel) than the left, so all in all; the jolt that shouldn't be has probably be hindered by weight. I fail to understand how people can claim SAW is short, or lacking in air time; but each to their own I guess. I would have said SAW is filled with airtime, and I've never failed to obtain some even when the ride is running slow. One final point: have you SAW-slaters ever tried, bracing yourself? Put your head back, hold on; and it seems to resolve the rough whip in the final inversion - the undeniable whip which I do love, but each to their own. It's like Marc told me to not brace on Colossus, and instead hold my hands up and 'flow with the ride' - it killed my arm muscles, but I didn't bash my head around, so I think there's a nact to each ride. As a side note though, I'm preferring Inferno this year over SAW, Inferno's just been amazing <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 One final point: have you SAW-slaters ever tried, bracing yourself? Put your head back, hold on; and it seems to resolve the rough whip in the final inversion - the undeniable whip which I do love, but each to their own. It's like Marc told me to not brace on Colossus, and instead hold my hands up and 'flow with the ride' - it killed my arm muscles, but I didn't bash my head around, so I think there's a nact to each ride. Every single time I try to get my head in a brace position for that drop and each time my head feels like it's been knocked down by a bowling ball. It could be my height and slim frame that means I get thrown about but then again, I never feel violated or abused after Speed and Rage and I don't feel the roughness on rides like Colossus, Viper or The Smiler. So what is it that makes Saw such a pain too ride for me? The only 'nact' for me on Saw is to not bother riding. I think the roughness of saw (although its usually smooth for me but was a bit rough at the tpm meet on saturday) works really well cause you are meant to feel like you have survived. The story of the ride is showing you what could happen if you dont play the game? Quote me if I'm wrong but thats the general idea I think See, I think this (and similar posts like this) are rubbish. No park would design a ride to be rough and jolty. If that was the case, why aren't we criticising Inferno for being too smooth when it's supposed to represent surviving a volcanic eruption. That wouldn't be a smooth experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzzellio Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 It's not that the roughness was designed deliberately, but it just happens to work in the theme's favour anyway. Kerfuffle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 Every single time I try to get my head in a brace position for that drop and each time my head feels like it's been knocked down by a bowling ball. It could be my height and slim frame that means I get thrown about but then again, I never feel violated or abused after Speed and Rage and I don't feel the roughness on rides like Colossus, Viper or The Smiler. So what is it that makes Saw such a pain too ride for me? The only 'nact' for me on Saw is to not bother riding. I completely respect that, because I'm 5ft 7, and slim; but then I'm the opposite to you. I've only ever ridden Viper once because I found it far too rough back in 2013; Colossus is the one I'd happily avoid like the plague, and the Smiler I find is most of the time an unplesant experience on the second half, but yet I'll ride it once a day just because I don't visit Towers often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th13teen Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 It's strange to see so many people complain *Discuss* about a rides roughness. I have only really ever found Saw rough once, and that was the VIP Day on its original opening. After this time, I feel the ride does its job well, and I am not a fan of completely smooth rides, I do much prefer a Wooden Coaster (Major example the Wild Mouse at BPB). I certainly understand that air time hill, it does catch people by surprise, but it is fantastic in my opinion. I understand most don't wish to get rattled to pieces, however at the same time, you have got to admit, there is something deathly dull about rides like the Swarm being so smooth (not saying the Swarm is dull, but just this particular issue), you may disagree, but that's my opinion. Saw is an excellent crowd puller, and I don't see Thorpe Park changing this anytime soon. Sorry but the Smiler really is just 10 times worse...although not as rough because of its natural design it literally throws you to the point of no return! But I really do love the Smiler! Cal and TPJames 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I really do enjoy Saw I have to say the exciting pop of air time on that hill is great and the indoor drop is fantastic I do enjoy the ride it's the uniqueness of the layout tbh Kerfuffle and TPJames 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I understand most don't wish to get rattled to pieces, however at the same time, you have got to admit, there is something deathly dull about rides like the Swarm being so smooth (not saying the Swarm is dull, but just this particular issue), you may disagree, but that's my opinion. I too find Inferno boring because it is too smooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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