The Smiler

[Pickles]

Honestly I think marketing anything as a world's first is naff, it's essentially a short term thing because someone will come along and beat it. Feel free to hate in my opinion all you want but it's kinda true.

[Marc]

As for it being a "naff" world first.. This ride doesn't need a world first - it could easily market itself; imagine an advert showing a train just going through the track, inversion after inversion. Most people would immeadiately think it looks great. Then, include the theming and story, and most people will be drawn in. It's a Secret Weapon, so by definition, it will have some sort of 'first' connected to it.

You say that but I think after the reaction to The Swarm we will see more gimicks and world firsts on rides just to give them somthing easy to market.

You say that sooner or later it will be beaten. Think about it this way - the first 7 looping coaster, Goudurix at Parc Asterix, held the title of 'Most inversions' for 6 years, then Dragon Khan (with 8) for 8 years. Colossus then held the title for 11 years. So, I'd expect it will last for several years, if it gets beaten at all. Look, for example, at roller coasters with the steepest drop in the world. When Steel Hawg opened in 2008, it had the steepest drop in the world. Then Mumbo Jumbo opened a year later to steal the record by 1 degree. Then, in 2011, Takabisha blows all the S&S El Loco coasters out of the water and has its 121 degree drop. Doesn't look likely it'll be beaten any time soon really.

With roller coasters, you can only go so far, and I think 14 inversions on a single coaster is pushing towards the limit, unless you want to build a ridiculously long coaster with several brakes, lifts and goodness knows what else just to throw in a few more pointless inversions. The Smiler's record is here to stay for a long while in my eyes, so it is something worth shouting about.

I agree I can see it keeping the record for a long time, but then whilst its not a "Naff" recored, the fact merlin are beating their own record set 11 years ago, I dont think its a majorly interesting one for the UK from an enthusiast POV but that may just be me

[Benin]

Merlin aren't beating their own record though, beating Tussauds'... [/pedant]

Towers are really struggling to keep stuff quiet it seems this year, with the leak of the Sanctuary video, the papers releasing the Smiler story quickly, and now Krave...

14 inversions is a big thing, especially considering the space they had available... I think for me it's the way they've used the space that's the most impressive aspect of the entire thing...

Inversions are easy to market and as Marc said, it looks like subtle gimmicks aren't successful over here, so we have to be more in the face of people...

[EC!]

Honestly I think marketing anything as a world's first is naff, it's essentially a short term thing because someone will come along and beat it. Feel free to hate in my opinion all you want but it's kinda true.

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

[Smidget]

I personally don't see anything wrong with using the tag line "World's First blah blah blah". It grabs attention from EVERYONE, and it ensures the ride is known. As has been previously stated, enthusiasts make up a very small number of park guests, and whilst entusiasts themselves may not be too bothered by it, or think it's 'naff', the majority of the general public will lap it up, and love it.

e.g. "Did you hear that new ride at Alton Towers is a world first? 14 inversions, gonna be mental!"

"I just did the world's first 14 looper, ain't I awesome"

And you get the drift...

It's a good marketing scheme. So what if it gets beaten in a few years time? That's not today. Marketing is used to gain attention to something, make it big/well known, etc. "World's first..." fits the bill, and still works, so I see no reason why it shouldn't be used.

[Marc]

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

To be fair, it will allways be the "Worlds first 14 looping coaster" just as Colossus will still and will allways be "The worlds first 10 looping coaster.."

[Smidget]

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

An opinion is not a fact, therefore what Holly has said can't be truth...

[EC!]

what holly said I feel is correct as everybody has opinions if u have a problems with what is the point in making a fuss. And back on topic I am looking forward to the smiler this year funnily enough, I think it will be a good addition to alton and I think the inoculator thing will be immense.

[Sidders]

Marc does raise a good point there actually. "World's first" will live on long after the record is beaten purely because it was the world's first. Having the tagline "Most inversions" is the one with the expiry date. Not that either matters 'cause yolo.

/badperson.

[Smidget]

what holly said I feel is correct as everybody has opinions if u have a problems with what is the point in making a fuss. And back on topic I am looking forward to the smiler this year funnily enough, I think it will be a good addition to alton and I think the inoculator thing will be immense.

You're the one who started saying people were attacking you for your opinion. Is that not making a fuss? People were just giving their own opinions, creating a discussion, not tearing you from limb to limb (think that's what you said, too lazy to look back up and check )

[JoshC.]

You say that but I think after the reaction to The Swarm we will see more gimicks and world firsts on rides just to give them somthing easy to market.

I agree I can see it keeping the record for a long time, but then whilst its not a "Naff" recored, the fact merlin are beating their own record set 11 years ago, I dont think its a majorly interesting one for the UK from an enthusiast POV but that may just be me

Agree with what you're saying here Marc, but I reckon if Smiler say *only* had 9 or 10 inversions, the marketing could easily focus on all the inversions, and people would still be drawn into it. The world first thing is just helping it all the more in this case.

Towers are really struggling to keep stuff quiet it seems this year, with the leak of the Sanctuary video, the papers releasing the Smiler story quickly, and now Krave...

Yeah, it does seem like these boxes have been released a little early really. You also forgot how posters advertising the logo with the name came out a day or two before the name was officially released. It's a shame, but it's certainly not disasterous to any of the ride experience thankfully (like Th13teen, for example).

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to strip you limb from limb - I too am just expressing my opinion. But anything which is a world's first is there for life, as others have said. Personally I feel combining it with inversions is a bit silly in a way - if a 15 inversion coaster comes along soon (which I however doubt), it will look strange for AT to say 'Well, we've got the first 14 inversion coaster'. But until that day comes, AT are on to a winner with that marketing.

[AstroDan]

I just think it's staggering that anyone would be even slightly 'upset' by the nature of the features on this ride, given that for too long - enthusiast forums have been craving a 'normal', 'solid' coaster at the park - not something that relies on a flash in the pan gimmick, like Th13teen.

This is much more like it!

[Mark9]

Well thats a pretty naff worlds first, but the true identity of The Disorientator has yet to be revealed, and anyway its only beating Colossus, sure its the first coaster to have 14 inversions but it shouldnt be marketed as wolds first cos in a couple of years there with be a 15 inversion or 20 inversion coaster, then the "world first" will definately look naff!

The Worlds first stuff works unfortunately. As was proven with The Swarm, if you don't capture the publics imagination with these epically large tag lines, they don't visit in their droves. The 14 inversion record may only last a year (unlikely considering the track record of Goudurix, Khan and Colossus), but it will be enough to secure The Smiler for the public.

Really though, this is a rollercoaster that so far has something for everyones. Its got enthusiasts tongues wagging with the videos and the promos and the public will become aware of it far more with the 14 inversion tagline.

[Matt 236]

In terms of records on the ride, it is the worlds first 14 looping roller coaster (until another park builds a 15 or 16 looper ride (quite possibly in china)).

The ride also currently holds another obscure record of being the most compacted roller coaster as well because such a large scale ride has been constructed on a rather small'ish foot print of land.

Another record the ride has which I would describe as a silly one is that it is the first looping coaster in Britain to last over a minute in ride length.

Also, I'm certain Colossus is no longer the worlds highest looping coaster as a park in china built an 11 looping one last year.

[JoshC.]

In terms of records on the ride, it is the worlds first 14 looping roller coaster (until another park builds a 15 or 16 looper ride (quite possibly in china)).

Also, I'm certain Colossus is no longer the worlds highest looping coaster as a park in china built a 12 looping one last year.

But even when a higher inversion coaster opens, Smiler would still be the 'World's first 14 inversion coaster' - nothing can take that away.

Also, a park in China have built an 11 inversion coaster, but it hasn't opened yet. An Intamin 12 inverting coaster has been designed, but one has yet to be built yet. So, the moment, Colossus and its Chinese clone still hold the record for most inversions on a coaster.

[pluk]

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

what holly said I feel is correct as everybody has opinions if u have a problems with what is the point in making a fuss. And back on topic I am looking forward to the smiler this year funnily enough, I think it will be a good addition to alton and I think the inoculator thing will be immense.

A fuss? Strip you limb from limb? I don't think so.

It is a discussion forum, that was a discussion. I don't agree with you, and I don't agree with you quite strongly, but that doesn't mean you, me or anyone else is right. These are mere opinions.

All these things are only marketing tools really anyway. The test of the coaster is how good it is, not what aspect they try and squeeze the selling point out of.

[Jammy3112]

To be fair, if the indoor inversion with strobe lights is the "secret" then those who played the game knew about that ages ago...

I just want to ride the thing, and as far as I'm concerned, it's got a clear theme, with some excellent marketing, and I'm more than happy to take a trip back up there just to ride it!

[Pickles]

You guys are kinda ripping into him having an opinion. Nice one...

[ste193]

thank you, what I said was my opinion, some of you guys dont have to strip me limb from limb cos you dont agree, hate my opinion all you want but holly is true.

I had exactly the same reaction from exactly the same people when I also previously expressed my opinion that 14 inversions isn't really that bigger deal and not a great worlds first as like others have said anyone can easily come along and beat it, just ignore them, as they say haters gon hate

[Smidget]

It's not ripping into him. If people were to respond with something along the lines of "No EC!, you are wrong. This is amazing and your opinion is stupid and invalid" then THAT would be ripping into him. (For the record I do not think that myself, I am just using that as an example. I respect EC!'s opinion even if it differs from my own).

Merely expressing ones own, differing opinion is not ripping into him.

Regardless, there has already been a discussion about this elsewhere and I hope EC! feels better about the situation and understands that there was no malicious intent in anything that was posted.

Just putting this out there to clear the air, even if your comment was sarcasm Holly (can never tell on the Internet).

[Sidders]

Can't wait for Smiler.

[Mark9]

I had exactly the same reaction from exactly the same people when I also previously expressed my opinion that 14 inversions isn't really that bigger deal and not a great worlds first as like others have said anyone can easily come along and beat it, just ignore them, as they say haters gon hate

Ironically, it's you and EC that are the haters.

[EC!]

I'm not hating. I thought this argument had ended.

[ste193]

I have never said or made it my opinion that I hate the smiler, I hate the way people reacted to my comments, I expressed an opinion on what I felt as did others and when we express our opinions were nit picked at by the same couple of users which I actually found to be rather liker bullying to be honest, yes people have the right to there opinion, it doesn't mean you have to be an ass and smart mouth and pick away at everything they've said just because you don't agree but that's there problem.

I am actually really excited for the smiler as I've loved the theme, design and advertising so actually I wasn't hating, I was hated on and then I hated that I was hated on ;P

Anyways end of discussion, the matter of discussion here should be The Smiler...

[AJ]

For me the smiler has got a lot of firsts coming out of it - as I think matt said, 14 inversions, most compact, a long time since a long ride etc. now even though all these things may be 'standard' stuff to an enthusiast point of view as its not exactly original compared to the last weapon, it is still an amazing feat and records I'm extremely pleased to have in the uk where it is relatively easy to access. And in terms of the general public (the main guests) they will lap it up and loads of people are talking about it. So it's worked.

Plus we have all these stages happening during the ride that until we actually get to ride it we ain't truly gonna know the unique experience. During this whole project and even so now they have been tight lipped on certain aspects of the ride and with them playing up so much on the mental aspect this is gonna offer a lot as it is. To be honest I put my hats up to Alton towers for focusing on all aspects on the ride but the inversions! Even on some John wardley interviews he mentioned 14 inversions plus a secret element so that leads me to think the disorientor will be something brilliant. But I believe that this secret element will not be the marketable point of the ride when you have 14 inversions which is the thing to draw the crowds in - the rest is a bonus.

I also remembering at the beginning of the build it was being advertised as world beating, not world first so that lead me to believe from the get go it will just be a record breaker.

For a small island, and for what we have on offer. In terms of the stuff on what we have - I think we are extremely lucky and naturally as humans we will always expect / want more, but in terms of the smiler - just look at that beautiful beast, with all those features on the ride - what else do you need? I also think if there was another world first thing on there it just wouldn't have so much of an impact aka thirteen and just get list within the ride as there is already so much going on with it.