Morgan Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I've been wanting Thorpe to get a B&M Hyper for ages, and while I'd be thrilled if they did get one, I think I'd prefer them to get a coaster from RMC, there recent work looks outstanding and their own coasters (not including their upgrade jobs) look top notch, obviously at the moment they only have Outlaw Run at Silver Dollar City, but the visuals for Goliath at Six Flags Great America while a bit unorthodox, looks like it'll deliver one hell of a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Let's not forget that a lot of Swarm's cost is the land claiming that was required to actually build it... Comparing costs with American rides is also tricky, since they have a manufacturing plant over there, and even with the one in Europe, UK parks still have to pay for shipping... Would a hyper garner international attention? It's arguable, as a lot of Americans didn't agree with Shambhala appearing in the Mitch Hawker poll so highly as it did, and whilst the Intamin rides are highly rated by several, they're not THAT good... They are very hit and miss rides and certainly won't fulfil the desire for a new intense coaster that Swarm didn't acheive... Besides, if they really want airtime in a tight compact layout, all they need is Piraten... So it doesn't even need to breach the ceiling of the park... However personal preference would go towards a B&M hyper, but consider a Mega-Lite has 1.2m restriction, then it's a clear choice tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 A B&M hyper would just dwarf all of Thorpe's coasters, and even the park itself. Parks with B&M hyper coasters don't usually have height ceilings as low as 100-130ft; even the second, third, and fourth hill of such a coaster would be taller than the majority of the park's other rides. Not to mention hyper coasters are notoriously impossible to theme. And as for international attention, Alton Towers didn't even need to much above ground height to garner international attention. I hate the idea of building big coasters just to get attention. Just build a good coaster by a good manufacturer. Hypers/Gigas/Stratas are fine in sprawling American amusements parks like Six Flags or Cedar Fair parks. But look at the most highly-rated US parks like the Disney parks, Islands of Adventure or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay - they haven't got any hypers. Busch Gardens may have the 200ft Dive Machine, SheiKra, but at least it 'fits' into the park because the park itself is huge. SheiKra's not cramped up alongside other rides or forced into odd elements because of lack of ground space (I.e. Hersheypark, and Thorpe were a hyper ever built). I also doubt Mack will be seen at Thorpe again. As much as I'd love it to happen, Mack will only build great sitting or launched coasters - one of which Thorpe can't market and the other will either render Stealth, or be rendered by Stealth, completely surplus to necessity. Thorpe will need to put more faith in their rides that they will bring in a far greater revenue over a longer amount of time if they build good quality coasters without gimmicks to sell them. They may be slow crowd-pullers to start (I.e. The Swarm), but they will be worth it in the end. You could say they took a risk with The Swarm but let's not forget they showed quite the lack of faith in introducing Brave it Backwards. I want to see them produce a solid coaster, with no aimless quirks, silly themes or desperate World/Europe/UK/South England record attempts. Besides, if they really want airtime in a tight compact layout, all they need is Piraten... So it doesn't even need to breach the ceiling of the park... However personal preference would go towards a B&M hyper, but consider a Mega-Lite has 1.2m restriction, then it's a clear choice tbh... Ja bitte. Piraten looks the dog's bollocks. The fact it'd be a clone would probably go over the GPs head and it's a great ride regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 If Liseberg can have Kanonen and Helix then there is no reason why Thorpe (or any park) cannot do the same... With this reasoning, no-one can suggest an Intamin Blitz because it also has a launch... If anything, a Mack Mega would make Colossus (rather than Stealth) pointless, because it'd be simply better in every way and Stealth can still rely on the height being the draw... Considering a Mack can appeal to a wider audience with a lower height restriction as well, which fits straight into the family thrill route the park are taking, it'd be a fab idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 A B&M hyper would just dwarf all of Thorpe's coasters, and even the park itself. Parks with B&M hyper coasters don't usually have height ceilings as low as 100-130ft; even the second, third, and fourth hill of such a coaster would be taller than the majority of the park's other rides. Not to mention hyper coasters are notoriously impossible to theme. And as for international attention, Alton Towers didn't even need to much above ground height to garner international attention. I hate the idea of building big coasters just to get attention. Just build a good coaster by a good manufacturer. Hypers/Gigas/Stratas are fine in sprawling American amusements parks like Six Flags or Cedar Fair parks. But look at the most highly-rated US parks like the Disney parks, Islands of Adventure or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay - they haven't got any hypers. Busch Gardens may have the 200ft Dive Machine, SheiKra, but at least it 'fits' into the park because the park itself is huge. SheiKra's not cramped up alongside other rides or forced into odd elements because of lack of ground space (I.e. Hersheypark, and Thorpe were a hyper ever built). I also doubt Mack will be seen at Thorpe again. As much as I'd love it to happen, Mack will only build great sitting or launched coasters - one of which Thorpe can't market and the other will either render Stealth, or be rendered by Stealth, completely surplus to necessity. Thorpe will need to put more faith in their rides that they will bring in a far greater revenue over a longer amount of time if they build good quality coasters without gimmicks to sell them. They may be slow crowd-pullers to start (I.e. The Swarm), but they will be worth it in the end. You could say they took a risk with The Swarm but let's not forget they showed quite the lack of faith in introducing Brave it Backwards. I want to see them produce a solid coaster, with no aimless quirks, silly themes or desperate World/Europe/UK/South England record attempts. Ja bitte. Piraten looks the dog's bollocks. The fact it'd be a clone would probably go over the GPs head and it's a great ride regardless. I quoted your whole post because.. well I can. Thing is, I Disagree. B&M have proved that they can cater the hyper to smaller sizes, take Hollywood Dream at Universal Japan. That's a maximum height of 144 feet and takes many of its air time hills just above pathways and buildings. Thorpe, if they wanted, could easily ask for it to be similar height to The Swarm, make the trains shorter and then woolah, you've got a mega coaster. B&M are not against shortening trains or fitting into tight spaces either, take Dæmonen with its six row floorless trains or the way it was wedged into Tivoli Gardens. The thing with Universal and Busch is that it doesn't hold much weight. Universal built Rip Ride Rockit which does intrude on that side of the park, Busch Gardens (I know you specified Tampa, but I'm talking the company in general) have the stylised Apollos Chariot or Kumba and Sheikra. Even Disney has the high rides but it has the dollars to build a ridiculous amount of theming to hide the height. They even sold Expedition Everest on the back of its expensive installation costs. The Sore thumb. Mack can surprise you. Back in 2009, no one thought Blue Fire would be able to be as fantastic as it could be and there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't build a mega coaster if they were asked to. Afterall, rides with air time are in vogue at the moment, the success of Shambhala, Leviathan, Intimidator305 and the likes of Piraten won't have gone a miss. Inferno 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Mack can surprise you. Back in 2009, no one thought Blue Fire would be able to be as fantastic as it could be and there is absolutely no reason why they couldn't build a mega coaster if they were asked to. Afterall, rides with air time are in vogue at the moment, the success of Shambhala, Leviathan, Intimidator305 and the likes of Piraten won't have gone a miss. You mean like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Very true Mark, I was just presenting an argument against a 200ft+ hyper coaster that some members were hoping to see at the park. I'm not sure I really like the look of Hollywood Dream and I never have, and the ride looks like a 2 minute-long non-event, much like Thunder Dolphin. However, in writing that post I remembered Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, which is only 170ft tall and surrounded almost entirely by trees. Thorpe do have a number of trees at their disposal (on the Abbey Lake peninsula), so I wouldn't disagree with that. However (again) I'd still like something with a stronger theme, rather than simply a stylised coaster (e.g. Apollo's Chariot). A Mack Megacoaster would be my ideal new development too. I've said before I'm yet to see any evidence aside from a new typeface in visual marketing and a new advert to suggest that Thorpe are turning their attention back to a family market. I would love to see it, certainly, especially if it meant there might be a chance we could have a Mack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 In terms of a new coaster, a small hyper I think would make a great addition to Thorpe and would give the park a new addition thT would improve the lineup sufficiently. In terms of the next coaster (assuming its a steel) the following manufacturers can built it, B&M Intamin Gerst. Mack (probably least likely but would be nice) Vekoma (least preferable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 I dont think thorpe need a "small" ride, I'm of the opinion they need somthing of The Smilers scale, atleast in ride length anyway. I'm not too fussed on the type, id personally like to see a Intamin hyper coaster, the new trains with lap bars look interesting and a longer length intamin may be easier to fit in than a B&M. Please stay away from Gerst!!! Inferno 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Why would The Swarm be considered a failure after the park's success this season? And even if they did consider it to be a failure (it isn't), why would that be B&M's fault as opposed to their own marketing team? In 2012, the year Swarm opened, attendance fell by 9%. How is that not bad? And what I'm saying is, the park advertised it as intense. And pretty much none of the new B&M coasters are intense. I think they will only buy another coaster from them if they were to market it as a 'family coaster', like PA did with their hyper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Attributing the fall in attendance to just the Swarm not being marketing correctly is quite frankly, daft... Not like there was a massive event in London that was resulting in a lot of people fleeing the country and generally not going touristy things... Or that the park had a reputation for being not that great... Or that most parks suffered a decline in attendance... ste193 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan9 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 In 2012, the year Swarm opened, attendance fell by 9%. How is that not bad? And what I'm saying is, the park advertised it as intense. And pretty much none of the new B&M coasters are intense. I think they will only buy another coaster from them if they were to market it as a 'family coaster', like PA did with their hyper. Eh? Thorpe's attendance fell because The Swarm wasn't intense? Well firstly you disregarded my point about it being the job of the marketing team to bring in customers when there's a new attraction, not B&M's. Why would the fall in attendance be the fault of a ride the majority of their guests every day haven't been on yet? You then seem to assume your own opinion is the opinion of the public. It isn't. For example I don't like Saw but most of the public enjoy it. As I said before, The Swarm is received very well by the majority of those who ride it, regardless of what you think of its intensity. Also the fact that the park's having such a good follow up year (as well as it getting better as a park anyway) suggests The Swarm has a good reputation anyway. People are coming back, more so than last year. It didn't have the instant appeal like Stealth or Saw had and as Benin said, had to deal with difficult circumstances, but in the longer run it's turning out to be just as smart an installation. (anyway, for me The Swarm is the most intense coaster in the park, and the only ride I've ever been on to make me greyout. A lot... clearly new B&M's can't be that forceless then...) JoshC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Where did the park advertise Swarm as intense? Never heard them use that word once. They advertised it as extreme, which is different from intense. Swarm isn't an intense beast like, say, Nemesis. But it has its moments - the helicopter turnaround in particular is not only intense, but sustains that intensity for a period of time, which is a bit unusual. Anyway, next big thing. Am I right in thinking all B&Ms have had 1.4m restrictions? If so, wouldn't want to see the next big thing a B&M; the park needs a major family coaster in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 Where did the park advertise Swarm as intense? Never heard them use that word once. They advertised it as extreme, which is different from intense. Swarm isn't an intense beast like, say, Nemesis. But it has its moments - the helicopter turnaround in particular is not only intense, but sustains that intensity for a period of time, which is a bit unusual. Anyway, next big thing. Am I right in thinking all B&Ms have had 1.4m restrictions? If so, wouldn't want to see the next big thing a B&M; the park needs a major family coaster in my opinion. Batman La Fuga and Superman de Acero in the same park is 132 centimetre height restriction and Oz'Iris had a sign saying it was 1.3 metres So they are out there. JoshC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Curse you H&S, curse you. OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Oh and Wing Riders in America have a 1.3meter height Restriction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 (anyway, for me The Swarm is the most intense coaster in the park, and the only ride I've ever been on to make me greyout. A lot... clearly new B&M's can't be that forceless then...) Compared to older ones, they are. Not like there was a massive event in London that was resulting in a lot of people fleeing the country and generally not going touristy things... Or that the park had a reputation for being not that great... Or that most parks suffered a decline in attendance... Alton Towers' attendance rose that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Alton had rubbish attendance figures in 2011 (and is away from London), whereas 2011 was Thorpe's best year attendance-wise (and is close to London). Makes sense when you think of it like that. Solely looking at attendance figures is silly. If you were to do that, Storm Surge is the park's best investment ever... OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 Solely looking at attendance figures is silly. If you were to do that, Storm Surge is the park's best investment ever... Ive allways said Storm Surge is underrated FrightNights04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrightNights04 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Recently, Thorpe park have got a bit stuck at 100ft, I know the swarm has broken it and so has stealth but they need to get over 150ft at least because 100ft is getting boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 You don't need to go big to create a good ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Still wanting a perfect 7 Inversion Roller coaster FrightNights04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 The height barrier comes down to planning constraints with the council. To keep a friendly, balanced relationship between the park and local residents, the 100ft/115ft height barrier is in place. Stealth was an exception due to the colour and lack of supports for the track. Swarm's high points are carefully placed to reduce 'sight pollution' to the surrounding area. The next coaster, according to recent planning documents, could have a maximum height of 164ft. Again, like Swarm, the high points have already been predetermined to reduce any problems with visual pollution. Other rides won't exceed 100ft either, as outlined in the MTDP. As Benin says, height isn't everything. If anything, having a really tall coaster may hamper other rides' appearance, as they could be dwarfed in comparison. Even Stealth wouldn't look as big next to something that's only 40ft smaller than it. Inferno 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Having a coaster around 150feet or taller will make Stealth look rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 Having a coaster around 150feet or taller will make Stealth look rubbish Don't get the logic here. We shouldn't get an 150 foot ride because it will affect the look of another ride? FrightNights04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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