xxbennxx Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Also, Merlin love an IP, whether it's actually good or not... It's certainly not outside the realms of possibility that we'll see an IP latched onto this... Especially as we know that dark rides aren't particularly easy to market with USPs, another Merlin favourite... I actually have to agree. Merlin will also take any opportunity they can to have half the work done for them, an IP does just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I thought the budget was £3Mil not £30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 3 million would not buy much. It is certainly more than 3 Million, but 30?..... Until we see the evidence, I think we should remain VERY sceptical of this. Furthermore, I never heard anything concrete that said this was Merlins biggest single ride investment, Only rumours. Thorpe Parks own survey they submitted to the council stated the words "this ride is not a major investment" I believe it was a survey to do with the sound impact on the area, comparing the impact to that of a major investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Allgood Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I don't trust you with tunnels... weren't you the one who told us loggers tunnel was back!? Maybe OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 I actually have to agree. Merlin will also take any opportunity they can to have half the work done for them, an IP does just that. IPs still require a lot of work to do right. Arguably it takes more work as you've got an external company with their own standards to meet. If they don't like what is being done, they won't want their name affiliated to it! IPs are good because they're easier to market. When done well, they attract a lot of attention and can do wonders for parks (Saw is a good example Merlin-wise, but also Peppa Pig at Paultons and Thomas at Drayton). I thought the budget was £3Mil not £30? The £3m number was in the plans, but referred to things like the groundwork and the building itself. From what I understood, it did not include things like the ride hardware, theming and effects, landscaping, and potential IP, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 An IP will have their own standards yes, but will also have key input. Dreamworks practically did all the work for Shreks adventure and Merlin just implemented their design. Dreamworks subsequently have designed 6 more Shreks Adventures for Merlin to build and operate, they have also provided Merlin with all necessary Animation to be location specific. In short. Merlin will happily pay for an IP. Only if they can do as little work as possible in building the concept and brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I would be incredibly surprised if the budget was £30m. As I understand it, there was already talk of cost cutting after the initial tenders for construction were submitted and then resubmitted. All this said - I am hopeful - of WC16 being decent, I could even end up visiting a Merlin park again in 2016 because of it. (I haven't even seen Angry Birds Land in the "flesh" I haven't been to Thorpe in so long) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 How much did Shrek cost? The only info I can find said each Shrek attraction would cost in the region of £8Million to build, that's a lot compared to something like The Swarm which IMHO is a far better use of money for a theme park than one of these 'experience' type rides. Perhaps WC16 is another DreamWorks partnered project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Hutson Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Well I've been told that Alton are heading more in the direction of story-telling and theatrical attractions than coasters. I think the public are more excited by those sorts of rides than a big scary coaster as you're not limiting your audience. What the parks need now ARE dark rides, immersive experiences and story based attractions. They have their fair share of big scary thrill rides - so now they know what people want more. SubTerra is (was?) a great example of this; Hex, also - and The Haunted House over at Legoland. Merlin, I think, do these very well. I would think they won't release the cost of the original Shrek attraction - but each one, from now on, will cost £8M to build - as the template is there to build on. The London one probably cost a lot more due to the conditions of County Hall being quite demanding in a build. I wouldn't be surprised of Shrek London cost £20M to build. I was told by a worker that they threw a huge amount of money at it! And it really does show inside! It's a great family attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge2002 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 If the Dungeons spent £20m relocating, then surely Shrek would have cost considerably more, if you think they had to start from scratch with all their assets and ride hardware? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Are the UK public more excited about story driven rides though? Sub Terra (when open), hasn't seen a queue since it first opened... It's also not a great example of great storytelling, what with the poor ending... I like it, don't get me wrong, but if it were something the GP were after, it wouldn't be walk-on 99% of the time... Ghost isn't story based at all... It's a walkthrough of a Haunted House (with optional high quality Mirror Maze) with no real rhyme or reason behind why... It does have backstory dotted around, but it isn't expressly told to you via the ride itself... Sure there's the ride portion with the mad scientist, but this is pretty much done in about 5 seconds... Mystery Castle (the ride Ghost is quite obviously ripping off), does things a lot better in a story sense... Hex is about the only real example the UK has of a real story driven attraction (at a theme park)... It has that set introduction, middle and finale that all works well together, something most Madhouses do well anyway (some more than others obviously, a lot of Madhouses struggle because I'm an ignorant English person who doesn't understand the strange foreign tongues)... Remember when Merlin tacked on a story to Zufari? That worked out well for them didn't it? Given Smiler's popularity (prior to the crash), I would say that the GP are still after the big intense rides over story driven rides... I don't particularly think Merlin have the ability to produce a true world class dark ride when they're being run by accountants... pluk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slendercat Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I get what you are saying about no story on Ghost if Merlin really want a back story they should do similar to The Haunting at Drayton Manor, not a particularly good ride but the story makes sense. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I imagine those in the design department get so frustrated with Merlins unwillingness to part with a lot of money. On a seperate note let us not forget the Alton Towers waterpark extension, which would have seen many more thrill slides installed off a central tower for not a lot of money at all. Merlin said no. Being run by accountants is a good analogy and accountants don't see the bigger picture, all they want is something to make an impact visually. A sort of "if you build it they will come" attitude. hiding away an amazing ride system in a building with a multi million price tag attached, is not appealing to people who have a drive to make money over providing a quality experience. Frustrating but this will surely be a letdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Disagreed. Build a ride that people don't know they want and people come. People don't have fond memories of Professor Burps Bubbleworks, Fifth Dimension, Forbidden/Terror tomb or Haunted House at AT for no reason. These were rides that people rode in their youth, weren't build to fulfil a function and were rides that captured peoples imaginations. Reason being, they were rides that took risks, weren't fitting a convention and were built because the designers wanted to build something story driven and completely different. The problem I can see with WC16 all is that thanks to social media we are seeing every aspect of this thing from the ground up. We've gone beyond secrets, I'm sure everybody has heard rumours about what the ride is going to be about and what it actually is so all elements of surprise have already gone. The fact people have already written this thing off as a let-down just says it all. HermanTheGerman and Kerfuffle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I completely agree with you. The people running the corporation do not. They think big, impactful, awe inspiring, is what sells, and to the general public, they are right. They can't really call uk parks "theme" parks, if paramount isn't a land swindle and actually gets built, I will be there opening day. The uk is in dire need of beautifully themed, storied and immersive attractions, with thrilling ride systems installed. I really hope this is that. But I really doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraX Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 This is very true. Zufari, Sub-Terra and Enchanted Village are great examples of attractions with a great spark of story, but the budget gets stripped back and further back, until the 'magic' is gone and you end up with something as messy and lost as said attractions. xxbennxx and Liam T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted Users Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 They think big, impactful, awe inspiring, is what sells, and to the general public, they are right. You are the a member of the general public. Of course if it sells, they are going to continue doing it but The Smiler incident and The Swarm not hitting targets have put Merlin in a spin for what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You are the a member of the general public. I'm sure he knows. In this context (and on this site) he means non-enthusiasts. xxbennxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You are the a member of the general public. Of course if it sells, they are going to continue doing it but The Smiler incident and The Swarm not hitting targets have put Merlin in a spin for what to do. Very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You are the a member of the general public. Of course if it sells, they are going to continue doing it but The Smiler incident and The Swarm not hitting targets have put Merlin in a spin for what to do. Totally aware I am the General Public, well technically as a business owner I do not identify with the general public as they are my customers. Indeed I meant from an enthusiasts point of view, I have been an enthusiast since 1997, before we could talk about it on forums like this. I have travelled the world, I have experienced parks and standards well beyond what Merlin deliver. The UK deserves better. Tussauds cared about the experience, the magic, the belief of escaping reality, if only for a few minutes. Merlin are driven solely by profit, and believe the way to get it is to chuck up something big that people go wow at, which is right, but this can only work so many times. I am passionate about dark rides, because if done right, they can be the most mindblowing 4 or 5 minutes of your life. That is what I wish this ride to be, imaginative, immersive, EXCITING. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I personally don't understand the fuss over dark rides, I was kinda bored at that water one at Blackpool (see I can't even remember it's awesome sounding name), small seems a bit pointless riding/floating round in pitch black not seeing where you're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slendercat Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I personally don't understand the fuss over dark rides, I was kinda bored at that water one at Blackpool (see I can't even remember it's awesome sounding name), small seems a bit pointless riding/floating round in pitch black not seeing where you're going.I really hope you're being sarcastic.Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk xxbennxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam_sparks1 Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I personally don't understand the fuss over dark rides, I was kinda bored at that water one at Blackpool (see I can't even remember it's awesome sounding name), small seems a bit pointless riding/floating round in pitch black not seeing where you're going. I also hope this is sarcastic... Valhala is one of the best rides I have been on in the UK... Hardly any of it is pitch black. The rooms are really well themed and has a great thrill on the drops. Hope Thorpe creates a similar experience of great themed rooms and thrill. Coaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slendercat Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 I also hope this is sarcastic... Valhala is one of the best rides I have been on in the UK... Hardly any of it is pitch black. The rooms are really well themed and has a great thrill on the drops. Hope Thorpe creates a similar experience of great themed rooms and thrill.As much as I'd love it Thorpe will never be that extensive with theming and immersive effects because they don't care about all of that, all they care about is that they make a profit and that they hear one or two good reviews.Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk xxbennxx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxbennxx Posted August 12, 2015 Report Share Posted August 12, 2015 As much as I'd love it Thorpe will never be that extensive with theming and immersive effects because they don't care about all of that, all they care about is that they make a profit and that they hear one or two good reviews. Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk The only way I see this being themed well is if it is all on screens, I don't see thorpe bothering with physical set pieces, audio animatronics and the like. The maintenance bill would be far too high, I mean Valhalla is insanely good for a uk dark ride, but it's operating cost is huge, so huge that they only have the "full" effects package running in holiday season, but when it needed a multimillion pound extensive rehab, including replacing supports for the ride itself and removing and completely replacing the artificial rock covering the whole front of the building, That independently owned, North West UK theme park damn well did it, and did it beautifully. Merlin won't repaint a coaster, will let building theming rot away, and won't fix a fireball on Tidal Wave for MANY years. If a projector goes down on this new ride, expect a blank screen for years to come. I still want to be proved wrong, but sadly I don't think I will be. slendercat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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