Mitchada04 Posted April 15, 2017 Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 There is no such thing as a bad B&M. A 'bad' B&M is simply bland or lacking. It will still be more enjoyable than 90% of other coasters. B&M, yeah. Without them, Thorpe wouldn't have any working rides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThemeParkCrafter Posted April 15, 2017 Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 All the B&Ms I have done are not bad coasters, but don't have much force. Galactica especially was a disappointment because it was forceless and didn't even make me feel like I was flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlesberg Posted April 15, 2017 Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, ThemeParkCrafter said: All the B&Ms I have done are not bad coasters, but don't have much force. Galactica especially was a disappointment because it was forceless and didn't even make me feel like I was flying. Wait till you ride Nemesis AT (have you ridden it yet?) or Manta, those are B&M's with force, which is why everyone loves them Speaking of Nemesis, I have yet to get a front and back row ride on it. Probably why I haven't put it too high up on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han30 Posted April 15, 2017 Report Share Posted April 15, 2017 Visiting Towers yesterday made me remember how freaking amazing Nemesis is - for me it is just breath taking. I know there are some people who prefer Inferno and I was warming towards Inferno lately as I've ridden it more than I usually do (and in total have ridden inferno 200+ times and Nemesis maybe 12) but nope - Nemesis all the way. I just don't understand why it doesn't get decent sized queues - I'm not complaining because it means re-rides but it's a stunning coaster and one that I never miss when I go to Towers - and that roar is just I'm guessing it isn't as popular as some of the other coasters due to its age(?) My top 3 fave rides at Towers are the B&Ms - my only criticism would be that Oblivion is short but given that it was the first dive coaster (unless I'm mistaken) I think that can be forgiven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 Cos Nemesis goes "OM NOM NOM QUEUES" all the time, compared to Air when half the time it was playing bingo, and others having bad throughputs... Han30 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han30 Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 On 16 April 2017 at 8:50 AM, Benin said: Cos Nemesis goes "OM NOM NOM QUEUES" all the time, compared to Air when half the time it was playing bingo, and others having bad throughputs... yeah I forgot about that - bit like Oblivion with queue munching - I went single rider on Saturday and walked past a load of people in the queue who subsequently got on before me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlesberg Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Han30 said: yeah I forgot about that - bit like Oblivion with queue munching - I went single rider on Saturday and walked past a load of people in the queue who subsequently got on before me I've never had to queue for Oblivion, Am I just lucky or something? (I've only been to AT 3 times and one of those times I only used the SR line) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han30 Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 29 minutes ago, 'Airtime Falcon' said: I've never had to queue for Oblivion, Am I just lucky or something? (I've only been to AT 3 times and one of those times I only used the SR line) I have rarely seen it with a queue and Saturday was only about 15 mins - longest I queued was about 20 mins but that was on a busy day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobF Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 Nemesis also has 32 seats vs infernos 28 so it easily processes an extra 80-100 people per hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 On 15/04/2017 at 4:37 PM, Han30 said: Visiting Towers yesterday made me remember how freaking amazing Nemesis is - for me it is just breath taking. I know there are some people who prefer Inferno and I was warming towards Inferno lately as I've ridden it more than I usually do (and in total have ridden inferno 200+ times and Nemesis maybe 12) but nope - Nemesis all the way. I just don't understand why it doesn't get decent sized queues - I'm not complaining because it means re-rides but it's a stunning coaster and one that I never miss when I go to Towers - and that roar is just I'm guessing it isn't as popular as some of the other coasters due to its age(?) My top 3 fave rides at Towers are the B&Ms - my only criticism would be that Oblivion is short but given that it was the first dive coaster (unless I'm mistaken) I think that can be forgiven Nemesis being so far away from the entrance helps as well. It's always where people get to last and the first area to empty out near ride closure. I simply love how the best ride at Towers has the shortest queue, makes re-rides so easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Han30 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 14 hours ago, Mark9 said: Nemesis being so far away from the entrance helps as well. It's always where people get to last and the first area to empty out near ride closure. I simply love how the best ride at Towers has the shortest queue, makes re-rides so easy. Re-rides on Nemmy are the best! ❤️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Can we get some colourful rides in the UK please. (Not that I like this orange particularly but its better then black, grey or white) dragon2000 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 The rumours of B&M trying to develop an arrow/S&S like 4D variant of its wing rider were once so strong it's hard to believe they weren't trying it, but that was years ago now. Wonder if we'll ever see one? Have they ever spoken about it publicly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, pluk said: The rumours of B&M trying to develop an arrow/S&S like 4D variant of its wing rider were once so strong it's hard to believe they weren't trying it, but that was years ago now. Wonder if we'll ever see one? Have they ever spoken about it publicly? I believe that their stance on anything they haven't developed is simply 'we're willing to do anything if people ask us'. That was particularly true with launches, where they explicitly said "no one has asked us" (until Thunderbird came about a couple of years back). So that's as far as they've said publicly I think. Part of me thinks the idea is dead now. Wingriders are doing well enough, and the proper 4D coasters get mixed reviews. And with the Zacspins, free flys and the random Swiss manufacturer making compact 4D-esque coasters, I can't see a park ever opting for one. Doesn't help that B&M seem to have a reputation for not straying far from what they know. And that companies like Intamin and Mack are innovating more and more, whilst slowly perfecting their products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 B&M did all their innovations in the 90s though (if we take Air as starting work in 1998/99), and as a result became pretty much the market leader... Think the problem is short of them building a new track base (like the other companies have in order to innovate), what else can they really do beyond their usual standard? Would it be worth the time and effort for them to jump into a now crowded market for mid-range coasters? China will keep them going for years to come... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 hours ago, BaronC. said: I believe that their stance on anything they haven't developed is simply 'we're willing to do anything if people ask us'. That was particularly true with launches, where they explicitly said "no one has asked us" (until Thunderbird came about a couple of years back). So that's as far as they've said publicly I think. Part of me thinks the idea is dead now. Wingriders are doing well enough, and the proper 4D coasters get mixed reviews. And with the Zacspins, free flys and the random Swiss manufacturer making compact 4D-esque coasters, I can't see a park ever opting for one. Doesn't help that B&M seem to have a reputation for not straying far from what they know. And that companies like Intamin and Mack are innovating more and more, whilst slowly perfecting their products. I don't think Intamin and Mack are innovating as much as is perceived. Take Timekeeper, its a natural progression of Euro-Mir and Blue Fire. We've been known its coming for a while after seeing Blue Fire testing with spinning cars. Intamin, I mean aside from the new ride at Energylandia and a couple of ten looping roller coasters, seem to have completely fallen off the radar. B&M's luxury if you like is their reputation. The fact that we're seeing them built in parks like Efteling, Liseberg and Toverland shows that even the smaller parks are trying their hands at something a bit more bulky, a bit more luxurious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 You see, I think it's easy to underestimate how much Mack and Intamin have been innovating. Mack's launch coasters have really taken off. Discounting Blue Fire (which I guess could be said to be almost an advert for the product), it's only really since Helix that they've become a big thing and have gone from strength to strength. And the semi-shuttle variety is working out well for them too. Then they've got the spinning coaster, and even if it is a natural progression, for them to be the first to include launches and 90 degree drops says something. With Lost Gravity they've entered the winged market too (and there's rumours the next BigDipper will be their take on a dive machine too). So they've got innovation with those products and more. Intamin are making constant improvements. With Mack's launch market improving, they've upped their game, with Taron coming about and plenty of awesome looking ones cropping up in Asia too. They tackled the inverted coaster market again with Drage Kongen at Djurs (and more on the way), and their sit down coasters look fantastic (Flying Aces, Soaring with Dragon, Hyperion, etc). It's not as much, but it's definitely something. B&M aren't coming up with much. They've brought out the wingrider (with great success) and one launch coaster (seemingly successful, but I dunno), and they've got the reputation for building reliable, consistent rides. But that's just it - parks will go to them these days with the logic of 'we can get the equivalent of X at our park', and not 'we can create the next big thing with them'. I certainly think they've been left a bit behind by Intamin and Mack in that sense. There's nothing wrong with that either, not by a long shot. And I'm sure B&M would always be open to creating a new craze just like they did with the wingrider. But equally, I really don't see any parks turning to them and saying 'let's build the next generation of 4D coaster'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I don't find any of that stuff innovating. You seem to be talking about success, I'm thinking about technical innovations. In the noughties (or late 90's whatever), Intamin came up with their new cable lift system, they broke the 400 foot barrier twice, the accelerator coaster was a technical marvel and had parks clamouring for them. I'd count their wing rider design but Baco is a bag of pants. They pretty much came up with impulse system all by themselves and back in the 00's, B&M were definitely left behind. I agree that Intamin are improving but I'd argue not from technical improvements but by building much better solid rides. It's actually my preference but there are now so few parks in Europe certainly, that actually bite the bullet with an Intamin ride that it's really hard to find these new gems. And Mack, don't get me wrong, they are absolute geniuses and Blue Fire, Helix and Alpina Blitz all feature high in my personal favourites. But they aren't that innovative, more an evolution of whats come before. And thats just as fine because they perfect the idea to such a degree that they're rides are so much better. 7 hours ago, BaronC. said: B&M aren't coming up with much. They've brought out the wingrider (with great success) and one launch coaster (seemingly successful, but I dunno), and they've got the reputation for building reliable, consistent rides. But that's just it - parks will go to them these days with the logic of 'we can get the equivalent of X at our park', and not 'we can create the next big thing with them'. I certainly think they've been left a bit behind by Intamin and Mack in that sense. There's nothing wrong with that either, not by a long shot. And I'm sure B&M would always be open to creating a new craze just like they did with the wingrider. But equally, I really don't see any parks turning to them and saying 'let's build the next generation of 4D coaster'. And thats the thing. B&M have never come up with much. Look through their history and they have always been the manufacturer who refines existing ideas. But what they do do is provide a product that works and brings people to a place. The most innovative thing they ever really did was create the inverter and then build Nemesis. Ever since then, their reputation can sell a ride alone and thats a pretty big deal. I think they would build a 4D coaster but after all the problems with X/X2, many parks don't need the headache or can justify the problems that come with it. (Intamin have 16 coasters opening this year, B&M 10, Mack 6) JoshC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 10 hours ago, BaronC. said: Mack's launch coasters have really taken off. Bit of a design fault if they don't alexander 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman707 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 I heard that when B&M built the Hulk coaster in IoA Florida, they were asked to make a launch system for it and they refused as they believed it was too complex and unreliable (being quite new technology at the time) so the launch system was made separately and B&M just made the track. Hence they generally don’t build launch coasters. Generally, B&M stick to what they know and will even turn down projects they deem unworthy. They’re definitely the most elite, perhaps not the most innovative, but arguably the best coaster manufacturers in the world. Every single ride they build is buttery smooth and reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman707 Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Want to add that at Thorpe, it’s very rare that Inferno or The Swarm have technical issues. Intamin’s coasters on the other hand, Colossus and especially Stealth (launch!) always seem to have technical issues. Just hoping they’ve got the rollback brake fins nicely lubed up for this season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1729 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 The thing with B&M is they never try anything too radical. they just do things in increments. really there most biggest changes where the inverted coaster and flying coaster. normally they just adjust the seating positions or with oblivion they just widened the track. Though the thing with B&M if there going to do something new its hard to see coming, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with a 2 across junior air time machine coaster for parks with a smaller budget, with the selling point being that they will last for years. B&M coasters rarely have issues, where other company's will push the boundarys. Realistically there next big innovation might be a 8 or 10 wide version of there hyper family as when dealing with coasters like that, dive coaster width track wouldnt be a issue. and yeah The Incredible hulks launch stystem was designed by another company and thus was the most unreliable thing on the ride. same thing happened with Lightning Rods LSM launch system though in that case RMC didnt build the launch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman707 Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I'd like to see a mini box section track on a junior coaster. Not so much a roar as a growl! Just depends whether B&M think it's worth their time building smaller, cheaper rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 It's been done, B&M built their version of a Vekoma SFC in one of the Happy Valleys a while back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 And a second one opening this year.. who knew that parks had money to literally burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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