Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon

[Benin]

It's funny how people's opinion of the ride vary so wildly based upon what was broken or not...

 

That in itself is proof that the ride isn't working to the correct level it should be, and needs a serious look...

 

Unfortunately, it was also so predictable that it would be like this...

[Project LC]

Is there much that can go wrong with 2 lights on a pole? It seems a pretty simple thing. I suspect it's more the engineers have far more important things to be working on. Which was a concern from the start.

The only concern about the attraction that has not yet come true is the disappearance of actors which I'm sure is just a few years away.

[Marc]

8 minutes ago, Project LC said:

Is there much that can go wrong with 2 lights on a pole? It seems a pretty simple thing. I suspect it's more the engineers have far more important things to be working on. Which was a concern from the start.

The only concern about the attraction that has not yet come true is the disappearance of actors which I'm sure is just a few years away.

 

Maybe there's other reasons for it not being on then? You say that but Amity water tower broke last week - engineers worked on it over the closed days and fixed it - just an example of how they will fix effects when they go wrong And not simply leave them when there are more important things.

[JoshuaA]

Definitely needs some changes over the closed season..

My last run through of it was dire..

I simply don't understand the amount of money poured into this thing, I'd take a proper dark ride like Hex/Vahalla any day of the week..

Even worse the second VR sequence seemed to drag even more, so bad I was actually bored..

[Coaster]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

 

You say that but the rides I had at the weekend (minus the fire alarm) are at the exact same standards as they were when it opened - the vr glitches need to be worked on I agree but I suspect it's working as well as it will without some major work over closed season.

 

As for the live scene the train crash bit still isn't happening - wondering if there's more of a reason behind it as the last time it had an issue was fixed the very next day.

That's nice for you - but surely if the train crash wasn't working then it's not at the same standard?

 

On the rides I've had since my first go there have been a multitude of different issues including;

 

- VR footage jerking awkwardly, 'flipping' over and a bar appearing across my screen. This has happened A LOT.

- Green mist screen for over 10 minutes on more than one occasion

- No audio on VR headset, or on some occasions audio, but inaudible

- Mist effect in train carriage not working (only seen this work once!)

- Train crash effect not working and awful attempt to 'hide' that meaning that we missed the part with the shadow as well!

- Interior audio and queueline music not working/cutting out

 

Then there's the general underperformance of the attraction; there is one ending despite us being promised multiple endings in the advertising, the huge number of breakdowns, late opening most days, and of course the delay(s). Also, the fact that on multiple occasions I've spent 10 minutes waiting in the section between the preshow and main building - no theme park attraction should be a queue in itself! Finally, the throughput seems to be getting worse and worse, queueing for it last weekend was unbearable.

 

Whilst I personally don't like Ghost Train, I understand why people do, but it fails to deliver in every way at the moment IMO.

[Matt A]

2 hours ago, Project LC said:

2 lights on a pole

 

It's not just two lights, there's an entire front of a tube train which comes from the tunnel. Would imagine it's quite heavy and would require a lot to move it so fast.

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Coaster Jamie said:

That's nice for you - but surely if the train crash wasn't working then it's not at the same standard?

 

On the rides I've had since my first go there have been a multitude of different issues including;

 

- VR footage jerking awkwardly, 'flipping' over and a bar appearing across my screen. This has happened A LOT.

- Green mist screen for over 10 minutes on more than one occasion

- No audio on VR headset, or on some occasions audio, but inaudible

- Mist effect in train carriage not working (only seen this work once!)

- Train crash effect not working and awful attempt to 'hide' that meaning that we missed the part with the shadow as well!

- Interior audio and queueline music not working/cutting out

 

 

 

Im not disagreeing with any of your points - the vr headsets do "glitch" and move around when they shouldn't. 

 

The green mist for me is the biggest issue with the vr - I can forgive the 2nd train almost till this green mist completely kills the pacing - although this is hopefully fairly easily fixed with new vr! I won't lie I've seen the mist effect on the trains work every time (it goes off just as it says to take off your headset on the vr) possibly s bit to soon and is cleared by the fans pretty quick.

 

The live action scene was abit different on my last ride - they had us focusing on the tunnel whilst an actor got into position ontop of a smoke vent on the floor for us to turn around to an actor stood there in the smoke lit by the stobing lights from the static train behind - I hope the train crash scene is back on soon though!

 

Part of me feels they were maybe abit too ambitious with this - it may not seem it but the amount of engineering behind this is pretty incredible- the ride system it's self is so unique and is an impressive bit of engineering in its self - with the vr being used there's always room for improvement and I truly hope they do and the attraction makes use of the potential Which I think it has.

[Coaster]

I hope they fix everything, however it shouldn't need fixing on this scale - especially when you consider the scale of the investment, the amount of factors that either ruin the experience, or make it an operational nightmare, are shocking.

 

15 minutes ago, Marc said:

Part of me feels they were maybe abit too ambitious with this - it may not seem it but the amount of engineering behind this is pretty incredible- the ride system it's self is so unique and is an impressive bit of engineering in its self - with the vr being used there's always room for improvement and I truly hope they do and the attraction makes use of the potential Which I think it has.

My favourite thing (or rather, the only thing I like) is the cleverness of how the ride system works, however the effect is completely lost on 99% of riders.  Next year, I'd like to see a much bigger deal made out of the fact that you've moved, as that feature in particular does have potential to be good, however at the moment they rush you past the second station and the illusion is completely lost.

[JoshC.]

6 hours ago, Rach666 said:

"No Tricks: An Evening with Derren Brown" consisted of two parts, the later a simple "Q&A" segment when you can ask the master mind anything you desire. I was racking my brains to try and ascertain a polite way of asking what his opinion was of DBGT, however did not wish to offend in front of a few 100 people. A younger girl however stuck her hand up and asked about the location of said dolls, he looked a bit taken aback and said one of them was in his bedroom; and then quickly proceeded to change the subject adding the dummy used from "Pushed to the Edge" was also in his humble abode

 

 

haha, when I heard about No Tricks, the first thought that sprung to my head was that some over-enthusiastic fan would go just to interrogate Derren on DBGT.  Alas, this is the first vaguely Ghost Train related question I've heard of being asked!  

 

One thing I did notice during any interview Derren gave to newspapers / Youtubers / etc about Ghost Train early in the year was how similar it all sounded; using the same buzz phrases again and again.  It's only really with Thorpe-specific marketing has he seemed to give more specific answers.  Wonder if that was because of wanting to keep everything secret or the fact that what Derren says had to be agreed with by Merlin...

 

4 hours ago, EpicSmatty said:

Also, more Derren, it is his ghost train after all!

 

I always find these sorts of comments interesting.  I've always felt Ghost Train should be taken like one of Derren's TV shows, rather than one of his stage shows.  So, really, he shouldn't be there too much - he should be there before and/or after the experience, and not much else.  Take Pushed to the Edge for example; he met with those he used in the show prior to the experience, and after for the big reveal, but the actual event, Derren isn't present at all; just an invisible hand behind it all.

 

The way Derren features is pretty good in my eyes.  He greets you for the pre-show, explaining some safety things and the like.  And then he's just there for the countdowns; not much else is needed.  Perhaps one thing which would be good is for his voice to be heard in the room between pre-show and the warehouse, and in the warehouse itself.  Little things like 'everything isn't as it seems', 'challenge your perceptions', to try and tie things in a bit more.

 

1 hour ago, Coaster Jamie said:

Also, the fact that on multiple occasions I've spent 10 minutes waiting in the section between the preshow and main building - no theme park attraction should be a queue in itself! Finally, the throughput seems to be getting worse and worse, queueing for it last weekend was unbearable.

 

Whilst I personally don't like Ghost Train, I understand why people do, but it fails to deliver in every way at the moment IMO.

 

The throughput itself is actually pretty reasonable, and ever improving (like with many new attractions), from what I've heard.  The obvious issue is that because the ride is shutting down regularly, the flow of it is broken, causing issues to the number of people who are actually getting through in an hour.  And of course, any time a group of people are taken off a train during a shutdown, they are allowed to go back on and experience the attraction again through the Fastrack queue, which delays the main queue some more.  

 

That would also explain the 10 minute wait between preshow and the warehouse, as well as why some people get incredibly long green mist sequences - the attraction has, in effect, shutdown, but the holding sequences and areas are still 'live' with guests if it's a quick fix.  Which is totally frustrating and shouldn't be happening often (ideally it shouldn't happen at all of course, but unfortunately shutdowns will happen).

 

 

I remain by a lot of my views of Ghost Train from my first review - it is a very fun, enjoyable experience.  The second VR lets it down (which is a real shame since that's the lasting opinion people have on the ride), and the evacuation from the train causes people to lose the point of the big illusion.  From the moment I rode it, I knew it wasn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but did think most will appreciate what it's trying to do.  In saying that, it's not surprising that some people's views have become more negative over time - new ride fever has worn off, more issues have cropped up and the reliability issues have caused a big lack of faith.

 

Frankly put, Closed Season will be a blessing, as I'm sure it'll give all parties involved with the attraction a chance to work through all the issues without the constant pressure to open it up.  Hopefully fixes can be done to improve reliability, the quality of the VR can improve, to general VR experience can become more dependable and so forth.  

[Coaster]

16 minutes ago, BaronC. said:

The throughput itself is actually pretty reasonable, and ever improving (like with many new attractions), from what I've heard.  The obvious issue is that because the ride is shutting down regularly, the flow of it is broken, causing issues to the number of people who are actually getting through in an hour.  And of course, any time a group of people are taken off a train during a shutdown, they are allowed to go back on and experience the attraction again through the Fastrack queue, which delays the main queue some more.  

 

That would also explain the 10 minute wait between preshow and the warehouse, as well as why some people get incredibly long green mist sequences - the attraction has, in effect, shutdown, but the holding sequences and areas are still 'live' with guests if it's a quick fix.  Which is totally frustrating and shouldn't be happening often (ideally it shouldn't happen at all of course, but unfortunately shutdowns will happen).

The throughput was utterly awful last weekend, there were times when it didn't move for well over 20 minutes (which may have been shutdowns?), however even when it was moving, it was extremely slow.

[MattyMoo]

10 hours ago, BaronC. said:

The way Derren features is pretty good in my eyes.  He greets you for the pre-show

 

When he's working, obvs

[mikeymclaughlin]

I went on it Saturday gone. The 3rd or 4th group of the day. Couldn't have been more of a disaster.

 

The pre show  wasn't working so was ushered to the top of the stairs. There was an engineer there working on it though.

 

First train section we were sat waiting on the train for a good 25 minutes with the please remove your headset message. When we got going I was in the air looking down at the video. Very frustrating.

 

Live action sequence not working. Very poor.

 

2nd VR was clear however 10 minutes of watching the green smoke. Tedious!!!

 

All in all very poor experience. Not one aspect worked correctly. Didn't bother with reride as didn't want to queue 2 plus hours for it not to work again. Now I'm left with this poor memory for the rest of closed season. ?

 

The only positive were the actors were a lot more hands on especially during the green smoke section so at least something was happening. My mate even got dragged across the seat, but afterwards realised we now had someone sat between us, presumably they had been relocated due to a broken headset lol

 

Overall a disappointing 2.5 out of 10. Think they should focus on getting it to work before adding a new destination!

[Coaster]

^ I hate the interaction from the staff on the train, a £30 million pound investment should be good enough without some random person walking around poking you - it's laughable really.

[Marc]

7 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

^ I hate the interaction from the staff on the train, a £30 million pound investment should be good enough without some random person walking around poking you - it's laughable really.

 

No amount of money could simulate somone grabbing your leg in time with the VR - the leg ticklers tried but never really achieved it and i guess were removed.

 

Quote

Overall a disappointing 2.5 out of 10. Think they should focus on getting it to work before adding a new destination!

 

I get what you mean - but even when its all working i still feel the 2nd VR could do with some work to avoid the hold scene and am hopefull this is something they look at!

[SteveJ]

hang on hang on, not trying to disgree for the sake of it, but there's no real excuse for having staff run along and tap people's legs.  That's a bit far fetched. I agree there's no way to "realistically grab" peoples legs like the woman in the video, but having someone footstep along tapping people's legs is not remotely convincing either.  Its just a cheap trick to make people jump that is unbelievably tacky when you can hear them footstepping around you.

 

People can say what they like about the attraction on the whole, but whatever your opinion surely the "staff tapping knees" trick is always going to be ridiculous. It's one of the tackiest things ive personally experienced in all my visits to parks ever. Really I don't see any point defending it and if this were seen in any other park than at "cutting edge" Merlin, people would be laughing out the door.

 

It should have occurred to the designers that if youre resorting to staff running up and down tapping guests knees to provoke a reaction, then youre doing something wrong. Think of a better idea altogether that makes use of the great potential the VR and ride has.

 

Personally, when I first felt the knee taps, I thought the staff had just bumped into my legs by accident, until they did it the second time and it hilariously dawned on me and others. It totally broke any kind of immersion with the VR too and was plain ...weird

However - the knee tapping seems to be the part that consistently makes people react the most. Which is ironic, probably a clear sign that you have not used your £30million correctly.

[Marc]

Im not saying its its good or bad - i was more getting at using staff to grab lets was probably the most realistic way to achieve what they were trying to get at in sync with the VR - I guess if thats good or bad is more to do with the VR film than anything.

 

You are right though - It does get the most reaction, along with the Deamon everyone loves to hate getting right in your face! 

[Coaster]

27 minutes ago, Marc said:

No amount of money could simulate somone grabbing your leg in time with the VR - the leg ticklers tried but never really achieved it and I guess were removed.

My point is, they shouldn't need to simulate someone grabbing your leg!  They've spent £30 million on this attraction, it should entertain/scare people without ride staff having to poke you, the whole idea is just ridiculous IMO.

[Marhelorpe]

The issue with this green smoke screen that can last anywhere between 30 seconds and several minutes is that the timing of it relies solely on the other train(s) ahead and behind which are still loading/unloading passengers depending on how long it takes. It seems quite obvious, but here lies another issue which is going to make this problem much harder to fix than most of us reckon it will be.

Just like any roller coaster that has several trains on the track, if there is a delay in dispatching the current train held in the station, all of the other trains which are running through the circuit behind it will begin to stack. When it used to run 5 trains and was slow at dispatching, this was very noticeable with The Smiler between 2013-15 and partly the reason why there won't be a 5th train again - it added no benefit to the throughput of the ride and kept stacking all the time. The same principle can be applied on any rail line when there is a signal fault and the trains need to stop. In return, it creates stacking behind if there are several trains on the line during rush hour for instance and therefore causes a delay for the passengers.

But the problem I am now referring to with Ghost Train is that unless the operations improve whereby there is no long delay anywhere in the clockwise circuit it moves through with the 3 trains (whether it's loading in the victorian carriage, unloading at the tube station or loading again for the 2nd VR section), this fix might be near impossible to accomplish and this is the big design flaw with having the same bay for loading and unloading passengers at the start and end of the experience.

I have had instances during the 1st half of the VR sequence where I have sat for up to a minute as soon as the carriage goes black and you hear nothing but screams when the character in front of you disappears. Ideally, this should only last a maximum of 5 seconds and the train moves again to the underground station. But due to the fact the other train ahead is still in the process of moving to the other side of the underground station on the transfer track or unloading guests (especially if 3 trains are running), this also causes a delay. The same process occurs during the 2nd half of the VR experience too and more noticeable this time due to the victorian train carriage ahead being the only place to dock the currently moving train stuck on the green smoke scene.

Simply put, this delay issue cannot be fixed unless every dispatch on all 3 trains is perfectly and quickly timed within a very small time tolerance. I understand they can improve the green smoke loop and make much more interesting things happen on-screen, but we have to accept this issue cannot be resolved until the park can get the operations right first. Maybe only using 2 trains maximum in the circuit might reduce this waiting time instead of 3 perhaps?

[Marc]

14 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

My point is, they shouldn't need to simulate someone grabbing your leg!  They've spent £30 million on this attraction, it should entertain/scare people without ride staff having to poke you, the whole idea is just ridiculous IMO.

 

To some degree it does - Ive ridden this thing a good 20/25 times and find riders reactions pretty interesting (listen out for the screams, particularly when the woman appears stood infront of you after breaking through the window, when the daemon grabs the man, when the daemon comes face to face to you) - for what ever reason they wanted to simulate somone in the VR grabbing you - the best way to do that is with staff and this goes often get a big reaction from guests. 

4 minutes ago, Martin.C said:

I have had instances during the 1st half of the VR sequence where I have sat for up to a minute occasionally as soon as the carriage goes black and you hear nothing but screams. Ideally, this should only last a maximum of 5 seconds and the train moves again to the underground station. But due to the fact the other train ahead is still in the process of moving to the other side of the underground station on the transfer track or unloading guests (especially if 3 trains are running), this also causes a delay. The same process occurs during the 2nd half of the VR experience too and more noticeable this time due to the victorian train carriage ahead being the only place to dock the currently moving train stuck on the green smoke scene.

 

Your right about the timings - interestingly in all my rides ive only had the screaming in a dark carriage (the first trains version of the green smoke) twice, and one of them was during Tech rehearsals.  

 

What i always find particularly interesting with this is that the staff actually do run it quite well - they are in my experience at-least very quick at getting people on the train sat down and the train dispatched - but still this green smoke will loop for the majority of rides (i have had a handfull of rides where this dont loop - one time it didnt even finish playing) - I do disagree that it couldnt be fixed though - they could simply make the VR sequence on the 2nd train longer before the "hold scene" is even required - I really am looking forward to what they do with it in that respect.

[Marhelorpe]

Granted, if they were to extend the VR scenes' duration deliberately in order to give the other trains behind/ahead more time to be ready for dispatch, this issue can be helped, but still not solved. Even if the scenes are designed to last longer, there is still the possibility of one train in the circuit taking longer than all the others to get ready and if the delay in dispatch was to last longer than that of the VR scenes, you are back to square one again and are held in a looping scene.


The point I am making is all 3 trains in sequence need to be consistent and timed accordingly under a certain time limit in order to prevent delays from occurring for passengers. Sure, it will make the experience last longer and the queues will be slower as a result, but that doesn't bother me at all. What does bother me is the fact the current system is too dependant on the other trains ahead/behind to ensure everything runs smoothly. If they were less dependant on each other should the system change for next year, these delays would be either non-existent or very small.


Should the scenes be extended, I would like to see more of these characters appear in the carriage, even during the 2nd half of the VR experience. It's obvious that not all of the content is being used currently as evidenced by the behind the scenes clip from the BBC not too long ago, so maybe if these were merged with the existing footage or replaced entirely to extend the duration, this can only mean a good thing.


If this occurs and the reliability is improved next year, I might give the ride another chance.

[Marc]

Yeah i do agree no matter how long they make the vr (within reason) there will always be a situation where something happens on a train and needs dealing with - although with better timed VR they could eliminate the issue 9 times out of 10 which would be a vast improvement. 

 

Agree about the queues / throughput - the experience is more important in a ride of this type.

[Coaster]

35 minutes ago, Marc said:

To some degree it does - Ive ridden this thing a good 20/25 times and find riders reactions pretty interesting (listen out for the screams, particularly when the woman appears stood infront of you after breaking through the window, when the daemon grabs the man, when the daemon comes face to face to you) - for what ever reason they wanted to simulate somone in the VR grabbing you - the best way to do that is with staff and this goes often get a big reaction from guests.

There are so many better things they could have done than relying on ride hosts, the only reactions I've seen is people jumping, only to realise it's a person and sit back neutrally; apart from one occasion where the staff member was literally grabbing people's legs and pulling them - but that's not fun at all, it's just plain weird.

[Rach666]

One staff member got a bit too excited on Saturday and literally walloped my leg, to the point it pretty much hurt! No big deal, I'm fine (as was my other female friend riding, as she too had the same experience).  However if that was a child or someone prone to complaints that may not go down so well! 

[Matt A]

On 10/17/2016 at 9:16 PM, Marc said:

The live action scene was abit different on my last ride - they had us focusing on the tunnel whilst an actor got into position ontop of a smoke vent on the floor for us to turn around to an actor stood there in the smoke lit by the stobing lights from the static train behind - I hope the train crash scene is back on soon though!

 

I experienced this too, it was surprisingly effective with scaring everyone, although I imagine it'd be even better combined with the train in the tunnel in order to give people a reason to run onto the next train.

 

On 10/17/2016 at 9:48 PM, BaronC. said:

The way Derren features is pretty good in my eyes.  He greets you for the pre-show, explaining some safety things and the like.  And then he's just there for the countdowns; not much else is needed.  Perhaps one thing which would be good is for his voice to be heard in the room between pre-show and the warehouse, and in the warehouse itself.  Little things like 'everything isn't as it seems', 'challenge your perceptions', to try and tie things in a bit more.

 

That's what I mean really, just a little more than what's already there, just to have little references to him at some points.

[Ryan]

Planning has gone in for a small extension to the Ghost Train building.

 

http://www.southparks.co.uk/2016/10/19/extension-proposed-for-derren-browns-ghost-train/