Stealth

[Mark9]

^^Comparing Thorpe's operations to the likes of Europa and Cedar Point seems a bit unfair in my opinion.  Yes, they have great operations, but they are very different parks to Thorpe run in a different style of company.  The comparison to Towers though is spot on.

 

They are all run to give joy to people and to make money (and to please the shareholders). If the (apparently) small gate figures are stuck in queue lines because of one train operation then those same people aren't spending as much money in shops or on snacks and food. The only thing that is benefiting is fastrack which is compounding the problem for the people stuck in queues. 

[Marc]

1 train op should never happen. 0-5minute queues are better than 15-20minutes. If you had 0 queues people would spend more times in shops so more money and people wont be robbed for fastrack. They will be more likely to return and guest experince will be improved. Alton very rarley do 1 train, I'm sure europa never do 1 train, nor disney or cedar point. If they want to be good then 1 train op with 45 min queues need to stop.

 

Whats the point in sending a ride round with empty seats? 1 Train is fine if the queues are at an acceptable length. 

 

Its difficult to compare thorpe to places like Disney / Cedar Point - they are on on totally different scales and what is probably considered a quiet day at these parks would be a busy day at thorpe.

 

Whilst Alton are very good at running rides on 2 trains, their operating hours are probably the worse of any other UK park so its swings and roundabouts really.

[Benin]

Depends what you mean by quiet, I've visited a Disney park with walk-ons for pretty much everything... Then again, at those parks there's actually a lot more other options for guests to do, be they watch shows, meet characters or do things other than queue...

 

Since a quiet day for Thorpe these days tends to result in 45 minute queues because of one train op though, there's very little excuse... Indeed, 5-10 minutes is probably the limit, like when I visited Parque Warner and it had one train op on Superman and Batman, but the park was so dead it made no difference...

 

Empty seats because they've gotten rid of the queue is better than a long, slow moving queue of people who aren't spending money/getting frustrated with crappy operations...

[Marc]

 

Since a quiet day for Thorpe these days tends to result in 45 minute queues because of one train op though, there's very little excuse... Indeed, 5-10 minutes is probably the limit, like when I visited Parque Warner and it had one train op on Superman and Batman, but the park was so dead it made no difference...

 

 

I agree with this - 45 mins is a long queue especially one one train - which goes back to what I said earlier its fine when queues are 10/15 mins long, its just they need to be able to be in a position to increase the capacity when needed. 

[Coaster]

if the park was genuinely dead then I wouldn't have a problem with one train operation as there would be no queues regardless.

However, a 20 minute queue on one train is unacceptable as rides should be shifting their queues regardless of whether it's 20 minutes or 200 minutes.  Obviously they don't need to work flat out with a 15 - 20 minute queue like they do when it's 30 mins + but two trains should still be in operation.    

I think that Thorpe choosing to run rides on minimum capacity on weekdays highlights how much they really care about the enjoyment of their customers... I.e. not a lot.  They know that they can get away with it so they do it.  Poor.

[Mark9]

Whats the point in sending a ride round with empty seats? 1 Train is fine if the queues are at an acceptable length. 

 

Its difficult to compare thorpe to places like Disney / Cedar Point - they are on on totally different scales and what is probably considered a quiet day at these parks would be a busy day at thorpe.

 

Whilst Alton are very good at running rides on 2 trains, their operating hours are probably the worse of any other UK park so its swings and roundabouts really.

 

I can compare parks all I want to really. If I'm spending £30 odd a time for a theme park visit, I expect the park to run things to maximum (barring exceptions) at all times. I don't think that's an entirely unrealistic expectation, especially for two train rides like Inferno, Stealth, Colossus and The Swarm. 

 

Alton not only runs two trains at all times, its frankly got far superior rides to Thorpe's offering. Max capacity is the icing on the cake there.

[JoshC.]

They are all run to give joy to people and to make money (and to please the shareholders). If the (apparently) small gate figures are stuck in queue lines because of one train operation then those same people aren't spending as much money in shops or on snacks and food. The only thing that is benefiting is fastrack which is compounding the problem for the people stuck in queues. 

 

I get what you're saying.  However, I think to compare the operations to parks that are much busier, or that are run independently is still a bit unfair.  It makes it too black and white, when there's a variety of colours to consider.  That's why I think it's fairer to compare the operations to other Merlin parks, as that's the best way to make the comparisons.  Even then though, I agree that Thorpe and their one trains seem a lot worse than the other Merlin parks.

 

 

It's surely something Thorpe will want to tackle though - given that they're trying things like Reserve n Ride, it's obvious they're trying to get people to spend less time in the queues (so guests can enjoy their day more and spend more money in the shops and all that).  One train operation doesn't help achieve that.  That's why I'm thinking it's perhaps something to do with engineering (not enough staff / budget / whatever) which is restricting them, as opposed to them not caring enough (which seems less likely given what they've been doing this year).

[Rich]

I went to chessington on Wed afternoon and even Vampire was on 2 trains (using both trains) with no more than I saw 6 people per train because there was no one waiting!

[Adam P]

This is where the point comes, I spent hardly any time in the park Thursday as the coasters were all on one train with a lengthy queue and they are the main reason for most peoples visit, mine included. If you want to queue for Swarm backwards its made even worse by one train op.

 

Yet across at Chessington Vampire was on 2 trains, running empty and across at Legoland last week The Dragon also has two trains on both not full on every occasion.

 

If we all stop comparing Thorpe to these bigger parks in this country or across the pond they will never get any better, even some of these big parks have quiet days.

 

The issue is however much I love to visit the park its a major put off knowing you will get in and queue 15-45 minutes for a coaster that should be walk on, and its not like one train op is new for this year, its been a bug of the park for many years now (let's now forget it was 2005 Thorpe announced three trains for Stealth so two could always run) Yet as the park is clearly busier as there aren't walk on days anymore (odd day in March maybe) the park has yet to catch up this must annoy your average visitor as well as people expressing views on here.

[Mark9]

I get what you're saying.  However, I think to compare the operations to parks that are much busier, or that are run independently is still a bit unfair.  It makes it too black and white, when there's a variety of colours to consider.  That's why I think it's fairer to compare the operations to other Merlin parks, as that's the best way to make the comparisons.  Even then though, I agree that Thorpe and their one trains seem a lot worse than the other Merlin parks.

 

Sorry Josh, thats just not the case. It's irrelevant. Merlin keep banging on about how they want to be second attendance wise to Disney. And yet, the way their parks are run, you'd think they were lower then Six Flags or Seaworld. Maybe if they got their fingers out, started acting like everyday is a busy day, they may start attracting people back to their little theme park.

 

It's baffling why Thorpe is getting defended about this actually, are people saying they'd rather wait 15/45 minutes then to get more rides in during their visits. Why do you care if Thorpe have to spend a bit more money on keeping their rides at full capacity.

[Mitchada04]

I understand that once the budget for that day has been decided it can't be suddenly changed and staffing levels means you can't always add the second train. But maybe all days should be budgeted for two trains? Merlin have enough money to fund this quite clearly as all there other parks do it! 

 

One train operation just makes all queues seem longer as well because they move slower! A 15 minute one train queue feels longer than 15 minutes 2 trains. And if it gets to the point where it's absolutely dead, take the second train off! I've seen this done on Inferno before on empty Sundays and trains were still going around half empty even with just one, that's fine. But always be budgeted for 2 trains. Even SeaWorld who are in big money problems compared to usual and were in December also were running Manta and Kraken on 2 trains although the park was empty and only open 9-5. Had a Manta train to just me and my dad at one point!

[sully1311]

The unfortunate way Merlin parks are run. Once the budget for the day is decided and commited to they can't just swap between 1/2 train operation on a whim. It needs a minimum of 2 extra staff and more on top of that to cover all the staff breaks and finding that at 1:30/2pm is near-on impossible with the day already in full swing so to speak. Either that or engineering just couldn't get 2 trains ready because one was being worked on and not in an operating condition at the time.

I'm not excusing, just explaining.

 

Oh I know why it's just plain wrong. I looked in the shed and they were working on the spare 3rd train. Other looked fine. I'm pretty sure nothing was wrong with the other one as all coasters were on 1 train. (Saw excluded)

[JoshC.]

Sorry Josh, thats just not the case. It's irrelevant. Merlin keep banging on about how they want to be second attendance wise to Disney. And yet, the way their parks are run, you'd think they were lower then Six Flags or Seaworld. Maybe if they got their fingers out, started acting like everyday is a busy day, they may start attracting people back to their little theme park.

 

It's baffling why Thorpe is getting defended about this actually, are people saying they'd rather wait 15/45 minutes then to get more rides in during their visits. Why do you care if Thorpe have to spend a bit more money on keeping their rides at full capacity.

 

Just want to make it clear, I'm certainly not defending Thorpe over this!  I can understand the park sometimes running coasters on one train, or that there's times when one train operation is necessary for a short period of the day, but doing it on a regular basis is silly, especially when they're aiming to make off peak days busier and improve guest experience on the whole.  It's simply a case that I think comparing how Thorpe operate their coasters to the likes of Europa or Cedar point is a bit unfair, given the differences in the places.  Admittedly though, it doesn't really take away from the point, so I guess it doesn't matter that much anyway!

 

 

But given that Alton can do it, Chessington can do it and every decent park all over the world can do it, why can't Thorpe?  There's clearly something up, and I just hope that they can sort it out...

[Whatever]

Maybe they're just saving costs for the giant new coaster ? next year......

[CWOAfanMalcolm]

The Thing That is really annoying is when they run the ride on 1 train for 30 mins in the morning and then think oh it's a busy day when it obviously was to begin with and then stop the q moving for 15 mins while they put the second train on. that annoys me more than one train operation all day especially when it happens on holidays and weekends.

[Project LC]

Or maybe they are saving costs and encouraging more fastrack sales...

I would prefer a 15 minutes stop to make the queues shorter for the rest of the day. However it should be on full trains from the start. There is only 1 ride I will let off and that is saw. The problems that can have with stacking on the break run can slow operations so I will excuse saw. The rest have no excuse ever.

[JoshC.]

Or maybe they are saving costs and encouraging more fastrack sales...

 

If a ride is on a reduced capacity, then there will be less Fastrack tickets sold.  It is rubbish to suggest they'll sell more Fastrack tickets, or indeed encourage more people to buy them, when a ride isn't running at it's full capability... 

[Mitchada04]

Saw shouldn't be excused. They should just be better at operating it. It's designed with 8 trains like Swarm 2, use all 8 under this full capacity principle and be efficient.

[Project LC]

Saw is hard to achieve full capacity when very little people are there. If they wait to fill the seats then stacking occurs and the ride needs to be "reset" so to speak. 

1 train op will encourage more fastracksales. If the park is at 0 minutes queues with 2 trains no one will buy one. Put it on 1 train and it goes up to 20 minutes people may start considering it. If it was at 15 minutes 2 trains then still very little people will be buying, however if that goes to 45 minutes with 1 train many more will buy fastrack. It may be less sales than the weekend but it is more sales compared to the same day on 2 trains. 

[TPJames]

If a ride is on a reduced capacity, then there will be less Fastrack tickets sold.  It is rubbish to suggest they'll sell more Fastrack tickets, or indeed encourage more people to buy them, when a ride isn't running at it's full capability...

While although this is slightly different, I've seen many a staff member selling fastracks at the entrance when the ride is actually walk on when you go inside the queue. As they do this, I wouldn't be surprised if they did reduced operations just to make more money through fastrack sales.

Thorpe need to get their game on and do better operations, on empty days queues are 45mins when should be 15mins and on busy days rides aren't on full capacity from the start meaning the queue gets really big straight away and there is a massive hold up for the next train to be added.

[Coaster]

1 train op will encourage more fastracksales. If the park is at 0 minutes queues with 2 trains no one will buy one. Put it on 1 train and it goes up to 20 minutes people may start considering it. If it was at 15 minutes 2 trains then still very little people will be buying, however if that goes to 45 minutes with 1 train many more will buy fastrack. It may be less sales than the weekend but it is more sales compared to the same day on 2 trains. 

I agree with the fastrack thing - in fact it's absoloutely obvious unless you are looking at Thorpe through rose tinted glasses.  On busy days they may limit fastrack if a ride is on one train, but on quiet days they run one train for numerous reasons; cost cutting is probably the main reason but I'm sure that they use it as a way to sell more fastracks as well - otherwise surely they would react to a 60 minute queue and put another train on?!

 

In my opinion, the park should start every day on two trains, then if there really is nobody in the park, go down to one.  I would be very disappointed if I visited on a quiet day to be confronted 60 minute queues due to the capacity being cut, as well as an hour taken off the park's opening hours (as it usually closes at 5pm midweek), meaning that it would have been better to visit on a Sunday.

[Graeme]

Towers on Thursday were running 2 trains on nemesis and sending one around empty every time...

Now that pee'd me off far more than them just running one...

[Aaron Tuckwell]

While although this is slightly different, I've seen many a staff member selling fastracks at the entrance when the ride is actually walk on when you go inside the queue. As they do this, I wouldn't be surprised if they did reduced operations just to make more money through fastrack sales.

Thorpe need to get their game on and do better operations, on empty days queues are 45mins when should be 15mins and on busy days rides aren't on full capacity from the start meaning the queue gets really big straight away and there is a massive hold up for the next train to be added.

I've seen this on Swarm too... Selling fast-track when the queue was quite obviously empty. Then, when the member of staff was asked why they were selling fast-track when the queue is quite clearly empty at the merge point (as in, you can SEE it), the staff member simply said "Dunno, targets to hit, innit". 

 

Whether these are determined by Merlin HQ or by Thorpe's local budgeting, it's still simply wrong and quite frankly disgusting. To the point that I'm surprised Trading Standards have not gotten sniff of it yet... I'm sure they'd be very interested... But then you have to question whether Thorpe would then publicly "denounce" the practice but secretly behind the scenes be saying "just don't get caught doing it again".

 

As for the 1 train operations, this is clearly about money saving. In the times we are in where people (incorrectly) think that we are in a recession, they are looking for value for money. The bottom line here is that if guests don't think  they're getting value for money, they simply won't go back... Thorpe's time may be limited (more than they can ever imagine) if they carry on the way they are. This is coupled with the fact that apart from a few selected diamonds in the rough, the staff are just downright rude and aggressive - To the point that as a pass holder I'm reluctant to go, and I technically don't pay to get in... If you pee off your customer base, they will not be your customers any longer. Thorpe need to stop managing their bottom line for the benefit of today and start to manage it for the future - while there is still one.

 

I'd love to see what an independent Thorpe customer satisfaction survey would reveal. I wonder if Merlin HQ know how people felt about it? It's all good complaining on a forum, but the reality of it is that Thorpe won't care what a group of fan-peeps are saying on a forum when they're just seeing poundsigns and numbers on a spreadsheet (and it appears to work... I mean, why change it if it's working?). Who-ever is the one in charge of operations at Thorpe is either so tied to regulation and requirements from above or clearly has absolutely NO clue what they're doing. Either way, Thorpe is broken and it needs to fixed.. Fast.

[Cal]

Just saying all coasters started with 2 trains today, except Stealth but I believe it still has a problem with one of it's trains

[TPJames]

^^^This should be happening anyway on any day of the year. Thorpe has no excuse for not running full capacity on their rides from the start of the day whether it's a peak or off peak day. They need to sort it out, the only excuse which should ever be excepted is if there is a problem with the train, which is an acceptable reason for it to be out of action.