Coaster Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Why buy another park when the ones they already own are in a state of neglect and decline? TarinMaria and Martin Doyle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Realistically it will make little / no difference to budgets for the European resort parks, they are completely different markets - if anything it will be good for those off to Florida as you'll no doubt get better entry deals if your a Merlin pass holder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 They'd have to tell the staff who work there about the deals though (any worldwide discount from UK MAP holders seems to be an unknown concept from staff, I got in for free in Tussauds in New York when it should have been half price)... But if you were going over there, wouldn't you still buy the FlexTicket anyway? Assuming they'd keep Sea World on it (they'd be stupid to take it off) of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 20 hours ago, Marc said: Realistically it will make little / no difference to budgets for the European resort parks, they are completely different markets - if anything it will be good for those off to Florida as you'll no doubt get better entry deals if your a Merlin pass holder! Indeed. Why make the parks you already own better when you can buy other places and ruin them instead. Martin Doyle and TarinMaria 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattgwise Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 This is not a good idea in my view and apologies for those pro merlin but this is just my opinion which is what the forum is about after all. Busch Gardens currently is well looked after and maintained. If Merlin get there hands on the place. Landscaping will become poor and overgrown with weeds, rides and infrastructure will never get cleaned or painted regularly, effects will become broken etc. Just my view. Maybe I'm wrong (and would like to be) and hopefully due to the sheer competition out there I could well be. pluk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mattgwise said: Maybe I'm wrong (and would like to be) and hopefully due to the sheer competition out there I could well be. I think this is a very good point - all of Merlin's theme parks have very little competition. Thorpe and Towers essentially compete with themselves, and no other parks come close to their level of investment and overall ride quality. Despite all of Chessington's flaws, it still vastly outperforms all other family theme parks in the UK (largely thanks to the zoo I'd wager), even if it's not the best. Heide Park is very comfortable in Northern Germany, and still has plenty of unique rides for all the German market to flock to (no other park can offer a Dive Machine, Wing coaster AND launch coaster - it puts a lot of favour if people want a trip away to a theme park, even if the overall quality isn't as good as the lieks of Phantasia and Europa). Gardaland is similar; yes there's other good Italian parks, but Garda is the most well known and seemingly has the most consistent investment in major attractions to continuously pull guests in. Taking over Busch Gardens means they're competing with their major competitors locally; something they've never done before. Maybe it'll force them to do something different; up their game if you will. In all honesty, it surprises me that it's something they're considering acquiring, since it will be something which will require significantly more investment consistently compared to what they already have. But hey, who knows. One positive point if they did ever take over would be that if Busch Gardens did make Merlin money, that would help strengthen the Theme Park division as a whole, which would in the long run mean they'd be willing to invest more into it. Yeah, there's some big 'if's there, but it could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattgwise Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, BaronC. said: Taking over Busch Gardens means they're competing with their major competitors locally; something they've never done before. Maybe it'll force them to do something different; up their game if you will. In all honesty, it surprises me that it's something they're considering acquiring, since it will be something which will require significantly more investment consistently compared to what they already have. But hey, who knows. One positive point if they did ever take over would be that if Busch Gardens did make Merlin money, that would help strengthen the Theme Park division as a whole, which would in the long run mean they'd be willing to invest more into it. Yeah, there's some big 'if's there, but it could happen. Yep - I hope this could end up being a positive. Upon reading your comments, some very valid points there, and if it could strengthen the theme park division as a whole then it could mean more investment. Time will tell (if this even goes ahead) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 The adventure course thing in Birmingham which was announced a year or so ago (under the name Project Thor) has been revealed to be in partnership with Bear Grylls, and it'll be styled to a survival course. Sounds like something which could have widespread appeal in fairness. Merlin also announced today that they've attained the rights to Peppa Pig everywhere in the world (except the UK, because Paulton's). Clever move monopolising the IP from a business perspective, especially if they use it effectively, given how huge and important it was to Paulton's. Source - https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/southwest/merlin-plans-bear-grylls-and-peppa-pig-attractions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 I bet someone at Merlin HQ is kicking themselves for not getting ahead of the game and obtaining that Peppa Pig IP in the UK. But hey - Angry Birds... guys? Guys? pluk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Is Peppa Pig really that big worldwide? Bear Grylls is a weird one, though that whole project is weird given it being right next to the NEC... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Shares in Merlin dropped 20% shortly after that announcement so I guess markets weren't that impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 https://www.merlinentertainments.biz/C24B1AD7-9B59-4C19-BE0A-98EBAB02911C.CFILE Abit more on this here- they plan to reduce capital spending at their resort theme parks by 100 million over the next 3 years and spend that money on hotels, which could actually be good for TP if it means we get the planned Waterside Hotel. Intresting over 70% of their profits are from outside of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) That announcement has a rather negative outlook for the UK midway attractions and the theme parks. The share price would have dropped because of its pessimistic outlook will have spooked investors. It saying trading towards the end of the season dropped despite record high number of tourists will also have worried investors as well as them reducing capex in its struggling theme park division probably won't help. "Analysts say Merlin's explanation for the dip in popularity of its UK attractions is at odds with official figures which show the number of foreign visitors to Britain over the summer rose." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41637793 Edited October 17, 2017 by Project LC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Benin said: Is Peppa Pig really that big worldwide? Bear Grylls is a weird one, though that whole project is weird given it being right next to the NEC... I don't know how popular it necessarily is elsewhere, but it is broadcast in well over 100 different countries and is a well known brand. Fairly certain that in America and Australia it is quite big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Marc said: Abit more on this here- they plan to reduce capital spending at their resort theme parks by 100 million over the next 3 years and spend that money on hotels, which could actually be good for TP if it means we get the planned Waterside Hotel. Intresting over 70% of their profits are from outside of the UK. When does DBGTROTD get handed back to to Thorpe Park to be included in their budget? That'll save them a few quid when they scrap any actors There are indeed record numbers of tourists coming into the UK because of the weak pound at the moment so investors quite rightly won't buy that argument. Similarly, I don't believe terror attacks will have had any impact on visitor numbers - they have become (unfortunately) part of life in 21st century UK - and Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 - Our parks aren't doing great, should we invest more into them? - No, we shall build MORE hotels! - But we've had to close Splash Landings because no-one's staying there... - NO! MORE HOTELS, IT'S THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! That Merlin see themselves as market leaders of the industry concerns me greatly... TarinMaria and Ringo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarinMaria Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 - Our parks aren't doing great, should we invest more into them? - No, we shall build MORE hotels! - But we've had to close Splash Landings because no-one's staying there... - NO! MORE HOTELS, IT'S THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! That Merlin see themselves as market leaders of the industry concerns me greatly...Well, they wouldn't have problems with people staying on site if they lowered the prices so you don't have to take out a mortgage to stay a night... Whatever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 The price of a night stay at the hotel will have been worked out and I suspect that opening it at a discounted price would have made it difficult to turn a profit with the average demand the hotel normally gets at that time of year. The reason they gave for falling visitor numbers is concerning as it's unlikely to be the truth and the action they are taking to "solve" the problem is even more concerning as it is damage limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, Benin said: - Our parks aren't doing great, should we invest more into them? - No, we shall build MORE hotels! - But we've had to close Splash Landings because no-one's staying there... - NO! MORE HOTELS, IT'S THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! That Merlin see themselves as market leaders of the industry concerns me greatly... I agree it seems weird... but then no company would waste money on a very expensive asset if it didn’t feel it could gain maximum revenue from it. It will be interesting to see where these new hotels go, im sure I read they want one at Warwick Castle, Thorpe would be another obvious choice then I guess it would be in Europe as the rest of the parks here seem to have a good amount of accommodation. Ringo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, Marc said: I agree it seems weird... but then no company would waste money on a very expensive asset if it didn’t feel it could gain maximum revenue from it. It will be interesting to see where these new hotels go, I'm sure I read they want one at Warwick Castle, Thorpe would be another obvious choice then I guess it would be in Europe as the rest of the parks here seem to have a good amount of accommodation. The Warwick plans are being consulted on this month. Along with a new hotel they also want to refurbish two cottages and renovate more rooms in Guys Tower to offer as accommodation. https://www.stratford-herald.com/76103-hotel-in-warwick-castle-masterplan.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Like, their theme parks are massively under-performing with SBNO rides, terrible operations and budgets slashed, so their big master plan is to... cut the budgets further? Do they not even consider that, maybe, they are to blame for the reduced visitor numbers to the theme parks? It's all well and good putting the blame entirely on external factors, but when the most important thing about their theme parks (customer experience) is neglected so badly, that's obviously going to have a negative effect on visitor numbers. People are voting with their feet, and yet Merlin are still too blind to see that. They're clutching at straws with excuses such as "the weather" when in reality people are losing interest in the parks, the weather hasn't even been bad this year for heaven's sake! I don't think we can expect anything to improve at the theme parks, in fact the quote below makes it sound as though capital for future investments as well as general park improvements will be spent on hotels instead; Quote Merlin said 2017 earnings are set to grow to between £470 million and £480 million, up from £451 million in 2016, as it keeps a tight lid on costs amid tougher trading and cost pressures. It will also redirect £100 million of investment away from its attractions between 2018 and 2021, putting the cash instead into developing new hotels. But it said investment in health and safety and repairs and maintenance at resorts would not be affected by the move. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4987928/Merlin-shares-slump-trading-woes-overshadow-Peppa-Pig-deal.html#ixzz4vmjUn6di Martin Doyle and Marhelorpe 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TarinMaria Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 The price of a night stay at the hotel will have been worked out and I suspect that opening it at a discounted price would have made it difficult to turn a profit with the average demand the hotel normally gets at that time of year. The reason they gave for falling visitor numbers is concerning as it's unlikely to be the truth and the action they are taking to "solve" the problem is even more concerning as it is damage limitation.Yet other, better parks, with other, better hotels, charge less? Europa, Efteling and Phantasialand for example. The hotels are a constant source of complaints from guests, rooms being filthy or not ready on time, if they reduced the price, more people would stay, more rooms sold = more profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Coaster said: Like, their theme parks are massively under-performing with SBNO rides, terrible operations and budgets slashed, so their big master plan is to... cut the budgets further? Do they not even consider that, maybe, they are to blame for the reduced visitor numbers to the theme parks? It's all well and good putting the blame entirely on external factors, but when the most important thing about their theme parks (customer experience) is neglected so badly, that's obviously going to have a negative effect on visitor numbers. People are voting with their feet, and yet Merlin are still too blind to see that. They're clutching at straws with excuses such as "the weather" when in reality people are losing interest in the parks, the weather hasn't even been bad this year for heaven's sake! I don't think we can expect anything to improve at the theme parks, in fact the quote below makes it sound as though capital for future investments as well as general park improvements will be spent on hotels instead; http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4987928/Merlin-shares-slump-trading-woes-overshadow-Peppa-Pig-deal.html#ixzz4vmjUn6di I maybe wrong but capex should only in theory affect new investments, budgets for staffing etc wouldn’t come under that 100 million I would guess although that’s not to say there won’t be cuts there. Would be interesting to know the budgets for Capex projects without the 100 million overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaA Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Ughh, does anyone even visit the hotels? Like when I plan a trip to Alton staying in their hotel is the last thing on my mind.. You can stay in a nice little B&B for like 1/100 of the price.. Chessington's hotels are also irrelevant as lets face it- spending one day there is depressing enough for most people and Thorpe Shark is a bunch of shipping containers disguised as a hotel.. Investing in hotels is great when your park has enough on offer to warrant staying in the park for more than a day or two, though in Merlin's UK offering really all of the theme parks can be done in a day, or in Chessington's case its barely even worth visiting at all.. Legoland I guess can warrant a few day visit for kids, though Legoland is Legoland I guess.. Anyway very poor decision IMO when it comes to the UK offering.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Doyle Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, JoshuaA said: Ughh, does anyone even visit the hotels? Like when I plan a trip to Alton staying in their hotel is the last thing on my mind.. You can stay in a nice little B&B for like 1/100 of the price.. Well I got two nights at the hotel Matamba at Phantasialand in July for LESS than what Alton Towers tried to charge me for one night if I went there instead!! Because I drive, it’s so much easier for me to just avoid the Alton Towers resort hotels like the plague anyway. Those who rely on public transport though its a bit more difficult as the B&BS near the towers can book out quite quick when they are putting on their major events so for them it would then be a case of HAVING to stay on site whereas for us who drive it’s a simple case of driving slightly further afield for a travel lodge or premier inn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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