Hyperia Speculation and Construction Thread

[JoshC.]

https://www.facebook.com/thorpeparkmania/posts/10166301025505624

 

https://www.thorpepark-consultation.com/

 

TPM will post a more detailed analysis later

[Coaster]

That looks.. short.

[Inferno]

That was my first impression too - it does seem very short in length doesn’t it considering how tall it is.

 

Honestly though seeing a new coaster on the Thorpe skyline on those plans is so weird, but SO welcome.

[Coaster]

Isn't the idea of building a tall hyper coaster to actually use the speed gained from that height for a long and adventurous layout?

 

I think this looks like it will have a couple of fun elements, but will hit the break run before it really has a chance to do anything.  It looks like a post-lift duration of less than 30 seconds, which is unfathomably short for a hyper coaster.

 

It looks like a hyper coaster by definition, but really, not a hyper coaster.  It's compact, doesn't take you anywhere outside of its self-contained area, and very very short.  I was hoping for a ride that actually takes you somewhere, on a journey, with a decent length and some tall hills.

 

As well as it not really fitting the bill of a hyper, the other issue is that Thorpe really needed a long and impressive coaster to balance the short coasters already at the park.  This adds to the problem as it will potentially have a shorter duration than even Swarm?

 

It feels like this is the bare minimum Thorpe could have gotten away with to get the UK's height record.  It looks like a layout that's been designed just to get the height record, rather than to be a decent coaster.

[Project LC]

There is short and then there is that. Must be one of the shortest hyper coasters in existence. My biggest issue with Swarm was its short length. Unfortunately I am not convinced with this layout at all.

 

Will almost definitely be a 2 train operation as there just isn't enough blocks for a third. I reckon ride time will be around 1:20 having looked at dc rivals and comparing elements (not accounting for thorpe being even faster due to it being 30ft taller). Assumming the same trains as DC rivals with 24 people per train it gives a theoretical throughput of around 1080pph. Not quite the queue eater I had hoped for. 

[Jack29]

Surely the train should be travelling in the opposite direction towards the 'splashdown plaza' instead of away from it. 

[Project LC]

It would make more sense to have the splash down the other way round. The issue is its over so quickly it has to bleed off a lot of its speed before that last outer banked turn or the stresses on the ride and the discomfort to the people would be too much. 

 

I think it will be absolutely flying when it hits that splashdown as it will entering it from about a 180ft drop. 

[Inferno]

This has got to be a rough mock up, surely, that will be amended?

all I can think is that they haven’t included some lower-level track in the plans yet, and this mock up is purely to demonstrate the impact on the skyline?

 

The track length has got to be too short compared to the height? It’s likely going to hit the brakes at a huge speed and be a bit of a waste.
 

If you look at the aerial plan of the layout, Colossus appears to have a longer track, even though it’s less than half the height. That can’t be right?

[Benin]

Why are people assuming it'll be an actual splashdown as opposed to a simulated one with some B&Q branded hosepipes?

[Coaster]

I have a sinking feeling that it won't be a splashdown, but a trim brake?

 

Given the height difference between the elements before and after it, I can't see how else it would work.

[Mark9]

I like people calling this one of the shortest hyper coasters ever when Stealth is literally right there. 
 

To be honest, the layout they’ve shown is really ugly. It also does nothing to solves Thorpes issues. But as a means to stop the bleeding of visitor numbers, it will do. 
 

 

[JoshC.]

15 minutes ago, Mark9 said:

I like people calling this one of the shortest hyper coasters ever when Stealth is literally right there. 

 

I think people forget that a hyper coaster is literally just "a coaster over 200ft".

 

Obviously when people hear hyper coaster, they think of these long, out and back B&Ms, but it's literally just a word to define a coaster over a certain height.

 

I believe the current shortest "200ft+ high coaster that doesn't feature a launch" is Thunder Dolphin: https://rcdb.com/1845.htm

[gerstlauer]

Can't say I'm impressed by the layout. It looks incredibly short and, well, boring. Yes Stealth is short, but it stands on it's launch. And after seeing Alton fit Wicker Man's great layout into the space, this seems unimaginative. But I've been out of the industry for a decade (and can't seem to recover my old account!) so perhaps my expectations are skewed.

 

[Mark9]

27 minutes ago, JoshC. said:

 

I think people forget that a hyper coaster is literally just "a coaster over 200ft".

 

Obviously when people hear hyper coaster, they think of these long, out and back B&Ms, but it's literally just a word to define a coaster over a certain height.

 

I believe the current shortest "200ft+ high coaster that doesn't feature a launch" is Thunder Dolphin: https://rcdb.com/1845.htm

oh when I meant short I meant length. Should have clarified. 😅

[Project LC]

4 hours ago, Inferno said:

This has got to be a rough mock up, surely, that will be amended?

all I can think is that they haven’t included some lower-level track in the plans yet, and this mock up is purely to demonstrate the impact on the skyline?

 

The drawing of the layout is S3 which means "for comment/review" usually internal review. The next stage (S4) would be for stage approval which is what is usually handed over to the client (thorpe/Merlin) to approve which would then go to consultation. So while its not quite as developed as a normal situation its still unlikely to change much from that. The layout will be pretty much fixed subject to engineering changes and only minor changes to the support structure (such as the 2 absolutely massive footers by the lake) as well as paths/trees.

 

For sake of clarification I was excluding launch coasters from the list of shortest length hypers. Also when I say splash down I mean that in a very loose term of "area where the ride clearly needs braking so it can take the next corner at human level g forces with added water effects" down. 

 

[Matt N]

OK, so I've had a chance to have a look at the plans, and here's my honest reaction.

 

Is it what I was expecting? No.

 

Is it exactly what I wanted, and what I would personally have gone for? No.

 

Do I think it has the potential to be an excellent ride, and is it something I'm excited to ride? Definitely!

 

Do I think this will be a great, successful investment for Thorpe, and really give them the new zap of momentum they arguably need? Almost certainly!

 

If you want specifics, some initial thoughts of mine include:

• The UK height record finally being broken is huge news, as is Thorpe Park finally getting a new coaster; put those two things together, and I can't really complain! I'm extremely grateful to Merlin that even one of those things is being done, let alone both, so in that sense, that renders any complaints I have overly nitpicky and totally pushing my luck!
• There are elements on this that look like they could ride very well; the drop looks superb, as does the big overbank!
• As much as this isn't a B&M Hyper like I was hoping for, Mack build some excellent stuff, and when taking target market into account, I think most of the new-gen Mack coasters I've ridden have been excellent rides that I've thoroughly enjoyed, so I don't see why this shouldn't be the same!
• I've got to say, as much as this won't sprawl and dominate over the entire park in the vein that an out-and-back hyper would have done, I do think this will still look very impressive on the skyline; a 236ft lift hill is nothing to be sniffed at, and I think those big, tall elements will make it look very impressive indeed! I said previously that I felt Thorpe needed a ride that sells itself and makes a statement, and even though it isn't some big, sprawling out and back coaster, the visuals make it look very dominant indeed, and based on that, I think this looks to tick those boxes perfectly!
• As I think I said before during the rumour stages; even though I was predicting a B&M Hyper, I'm not sure that Old Town is the ideal site for a Thorpe hyper (for a hyper, I would have used the island behind Swarm for a station and had an out and back layout wrap behind Swarm and work its way towards the front of the park, personally). With that in mind, I think they've done extraordinarily well with the space and Merlin's budget; they've packed a lot in to that site (which is quite small by hyper standards)!
• The length doesn't bother me; it looks to have a fair amount of elements, and the ride duration doesn't seem obscenely short to me by any means based on renderings (it's about 30-40 seconds, isn't it?). If it was like Stealth or Oblivion and literally did one hill before flying into the brakes, I would perhaps identify with the criticism a little more, but as it is, the length of this doesn't bother me; I don't even think it seems overly short myself!
• If I'm being completely honest, I'll confess to being ever so slightly disappointed that they haven't built something with more of an airtime focus (as much as I'm sure this coaster will have airtime, it looks to be focused more on big inversions and hangtime); the UK lacks coasters that focus strongly on airtime, and this doesn't seem to fill that void based on the layout we have. I think a hyper was the perfect opportunity to give the UK a true airtime machine and I don't think this looks like an airtime machine per se, but in Merlin's defence, I'm admittedly unsure in hindsight if they could have even pulled off such a ride within the site being used and the limited amount of money that Merlin have to work with. Also, that is me being unfairly nitpicky, and I don't know how much the average visitor would really crave a huge airtime machine, so in that regard, it's a moot point; I am completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things, so who cares what I think? I'm sure most people will absolutely eat this up regardless of how much airtime it has!
• Controversial opinion; I'm not sure if this will be as intense and relentless as some are making out. Most of the elements look very big and drawn out; at first glance, it gives me strong Steel Curtain vibes, and while that ride has been received well, I'm led to believe it's not especially intense. Pair that with the fact that Mack coasters don't generally tend to be obscenely intense anyway (this is based off the ones I've done, though; I don't know about the newer stuff like RTH or Hurricane), and I'm not sure this will have the strongest positive g-forces, nor will it have nutty pacing; I think the sheer size of the elements could mean that the focus is more on hangtime and sustained floaty sensations as opposed to spine-separating positive g's and relentless pacing, and it's worth noting that the only real low elements on the ride will have had some speed shaved off of them by the water brake (don't get me wrong, I'm sure the ride won't limp through those elements by any means, but it will certainly be slower than if the splashdown wasn't there). I'm not making that out as a bad thing by any means (in fact from a personal preference point of view, I actually think Thorpe could do with something a little more rerideable as opposed to out and out intense, so I'd be pretty happy with that!), but I don't personally think the ride will be phenomenally intense like some are making out. I'm open to being proven wrong here (and I'm sure some of you will prove me wrong on this, as I seem to be in a minority predicting this!), but that's just my initial thought based on what I'm seeing.

That's just a few honest thoughts that leap to mind for me; I apologise if I come across a bit ungrateful and nitpicky in places, but I wanted to provide a balanced opinion and be completely honest with you all, providing both my pros and cons.

 

But to sum it up; exciting stuff, and while it's not what I personally had in mind, I'm sure it'll be excellent!

[Inferno]

It’s been really interesting reading everyone’s opinions today.

 

After checking the website on and off today I’ve come to the conclusion that, yeah, it’s not what I would have built, nor is it what I expected them to go for, but I think it’s still something special, to get really excited about!

 

I think it’s very easy to sit at home imagining what we’d build in planet coaster - but in reality Merlin just don’t tend to build really long coasters.  It’s just not what they do. And actually, that’s ok. None of the other beloved Merlin coasters are long, and they’re still great.

 

I think we might have been unrealistic thinking that Thorpe would get a super-long hyper - that would be a lot of track to buy, and a lot of maintenance to keep up as well.

They have no real need to build that sort of thing.

Merlin are used to building short, 100ft(ish) coasters, so actually the fact they’re going for the UK’s tallest is a huge leap forward. (A loggers leap forward I guess)

 

Yeah - I still think it’s a missed opportunity to have a coaster this tall and not make the most of it by building something longer, and I’d have really liked to have seen a MCBR and multiple trains, but compared to Thorpe’s other coasters this one does appear to have a lot going for it.

 

The country seemed to go wild for a 100ft eurofighter in 2009 - this feels a lot more special than those sorts of investments that we all lapped up not so long ago.

 

I’m still hopeful that the layout will be revised and the track length will be longer than what we have seen today when the official plans go in, but this looks very promising!

[Matt N]

I've got to admit, the more I see of this coaster, the more it grows on me; some of those elements look like they could ride excellently, and I think we could be in for something special here, even if it might not be an airtime machine per se!

[Mattgwise]

4 minutes ago, Matt N said:

I've got to admit, the more I see of this coaster, the more it grows on me; some of those elements look like they could ride excellently, and I think we could be in for something special here, even if it might not be an airtime machine per se!

Agreed. I was disappointed when I saw it, but take away the short ride time, I think this will pack a punch and feel out of control! Looking forward to it being built and following construction, before being able to ride it. Still believe it could be a UK favourite for many.

[Inferno]

Same here - it looks like something quite unique doesn’t it.

And to be fair if this was a tall dive machine, this would be considered a long layout.

 

My opinion has changed quite a lot throughout the day.
 

I was secretly hoping for a double down maybe before the brake run at the end as a tribute to Loggers! Maybe that’ll find its way in to the final plans 😂

[Glitch]

Could there be another gimmick hiding in the plans somewhere something new and different as well as the tallest in the UK line. 

[javs]

Ok, definitely not a dive machine 🤣

 

I like the look of this.  Yes it’s a little short, but this thing is going to carry some serious speed.  Let’s pray for lap bars, as that first drop looks insane, as does that last airtime hill!

[ML27]

 

7 hours ago, Glitch said:

Could there be another gimmick hiding in the plans somewhere something new and different as well as the tallest in the UK line. 

Could it have spinning cars?  Like The ride to happiness?

 

my opinion on this ride is pretty much opposite to all of yours. I loved it at first but when I see people picking into it, my love has became less. There was no space for an out and back coaster, you can’t close a public footpath easy, and they wouldn’t get support for that. Expectations were high because it’s thorpe and haven’t had a huge investment. I still feel like Merlin are holding the wallet tightly, I can see there was a budget.

[pluk]

I don't like to be negative, but I hate it for that adverse camber nonsense straight out of the station. Pack it in.

 

Overall though it looks alright I suppose, which seems like some mental apathy for the height record in the UK. It just seems that everything I'd want from a hyper isn't there. A straight ahead killer drop, multiple airtime hills, and length. This is like a greatest hits of elements of other coasters they already have, just a bit bigger.

[Matt N]

If you're disappointed in the length of this ride as well as the element choices compared to a "regular" hyper coaster, I've got a potential comparison for you that I'd say shows promise; I actually think that in many ways, Exodus is quite comparable to Goliath at Six Flags Great America.

 

Now I know that Goliath is an RMC woodie, a totally different kettle of fish to Exodus, a steel coaster that's looking likely to be a Mack Hyper Coaster, but I think that the two actually share many similarities with one another:

• Both are fairly large rides; while I know Goliath is only 165ft tall with a 180ft drop, that height is still nothing to be sniffed at, in my opinion, particularly for a wooden coaster. Exodus, on the other hand, is 236ft.
• Both lack "traditional" airtime elements in stark contrast to others of their type.
• Both rides' layouts consist primarily of a few big, high elements strung together in a "bam, bam, bam" type pattern, with no low elements in between. (Isn't Goliath primarily the big u-turn, the dive loop, the zero-g stall and the smaller u-turn before it hits the brake run?)
• Both rides have length cited as a key con; the main thing I always hear cited as the main drawback of SFGAm's Goliath is how "cripplingly short" it is, and similarly to Exodus, it motors at pace into a very long brake run. In fact, as a point of reference, Goliath actually has no more "main" elements than Exodus does, if not slightly less.

The reason I bring Goliath up is that in spite of its length, Goliath is often rated very highly. Many members who've been to the USA and ridden Goliath cite it as among their favourite RMCs due to how strong its pacing and individual elements are. Yes, it might not be the longest RMC on Earth, but I've heard that it really delivers in a big way on a pound-for-pound basis; the elements it has are apparently incredible!

 

And if you look more widely; Goliath certainly holds its own over on Captain Coaster (https://captaincoaster.com/en/coasters/goliath-six-flags-great-america)! It currently ranks #51 in the world, with a score of 94.5% (meaning an average rating of around 9.5/10, or somewhere between 4.5/5 and 5/5), and if we compare it to European coasters and UK coasters, Goliath would rank #18 in Europe and #2 in the UK; it's only 4 spots lower and less than 1% lower than Nemesis, for reference. In terms of the UK, Goliath is certainly far closer to Nemesis in rating than it is to the next highest ranked UK coaster (Icon, at #98 in the world and #28 in Europe, for reference).

 

So my basic point is; length and different element choices may not let this coaster down as much as some think. I know that comparing Exodus to an RMC woodie may seem like a moot point, but if the ride is anything like Goliath in how that ride is shorter and lacking in "traditional" airtime elements, but packs a huge punch on a pound-for-pound basis and delivers huge thrills within the elements it has, then I think we could be in for a real treat here!