SteveJ Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Marc said: Nothing wrong with people looking forward to the ride! There is if its based off misleading hype and no actual substance of the ride. That's exactly why people have found almost every recent Merlin project to be disappointing, because so much money is spent on misleading promotion and extreme exaggerations, to the point at which it doesnt matter the ride is medicore because people come anyway. They know this and do it deliberately. Much better to not be drawn in by this hype and come out pleasantly surprised by an entertaining attraction instead. All I mean is.. how many times do people need to be duped by Merlin's style of advertising, before they realise? I think it's a little sad Merlin continue to do it so easily, while having so much carelessness in the actual attractions they create. It's all front end and no substance with most their projects now. I hope the redesign corrects this and makes it great. pluk and Marhelorpe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 15, 2017 Report Share Posted March 15, 2017 Or, we could let people be excited for what they want as it's not our business if others are excited or not - there's nothing wrong with being excited or not and if someone is disappointed then that's that. Its not just Merlin who market things in this way, it's everywhere. It always seems to be a "Merlin" issue when 9/10 of said issues can by applied to the majority of other parks. I'm sure many Floridian people would say the same about Frozen Ever After or Reign of Kong: Skull Island - both of which were hyped up a fair bit. I also get confused with the claim that Merlin don't care about the attractions they make, but that's another debate entirely - but hey, I suppose Tussauds were so much better, so what can I say? It's not like they ever installed Rita or started the Imperial Leather sponsorships is it... right? I apologise for going off track, but in all seriousness this whole "Merlin is terrible" thought process has genuinely confused me recently, they aren't the best but they certainly aren't the worst and sometimes I think people forget what good they actually have done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 But aren't the Frozen and Kong rides actually good? Were they also that hyped up? Like, it terms of the filming of people experiencing the attraction purely about how "scary" it is? Universal's hype mostly came over the ridiculous animatronic at the end if I recall... Merlin's stuff is very British really, overhype it so everything will think it's good, just like the national team... pluk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Kong especially was extrenly hyped, they did a whole mockumentary on it By all accounts both of these rides disappointed (hence why universal have made major changes to Fast & Furious due to it using similar tech). The world we live in is full of overhyped advertising for production from shampoo to theme park rides and whilst I agree people should be prepared for disappointment (I go into every new attraction thinking this) it's absolutely fine for people to be excited about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 A mockumentary is not the same as filming people in a room with VR and (my biggest bug bear with the video) NOT showing the footage over the reactions... Merlin are so obsessed with secrecy at the point that it hurts their marketing... Not seeing what is scaring people makes it doubtful that they are seeing the ride content; could be anything or just acting... Who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 You compare Merlin to Universal and Disney, two other even bigger, more corporate and marketing led multinational companies. My post was nothing to do with stopping people being excited. I don't know why people have taken it personally, if you want to believe in Thorpe's latest video designed to make you excited of course you can. I'm not trying to be negative. Maybe people could let me express my perspective as well about how misleading and false this kind of advertising is. Disney's and Universal's is even more brainwashing if anything, except they create much better quality attractions regardless. (not commenting on how recently Disney is also going down the globalised IP route recently... sad to see) If you are confused by criticisms of Merlin then I recommend going to work for them or learn about how the company works. It's not a coincidence their parks are run by such a big company yet are so poorly maintained, poorly developed with 4-year lifespan commercial attractions (dressed up as "cutting edge" and "world first" all the time to blind people to their mediocre entertainment factor), and their staff/resources so underfunded. You compare it to Tussauds, it's well known that Tussauds was butchered in the 2000s exactly the same way that Merlin now is - by poor managements taking over, short term profit policies introduced and corporate shareholders taking over who don't care for anything but numbers and expansion. The Tussauds before this, however, was a totally different company that gave us amazing attractions, best known being Nemesis and Alton Towers in the 90s, old Chessington (when it was fantastic fun), and the beginnings of Thorpe Park as a thrill park. OlivusPrime, pluk, holtjammy16 and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlivusPrime Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 I suppose the question is, if you took out the brief part with Derren Brown where he mentions the attraction, does it work as good hype? Not particularly, since the scenario otherwise is pretty generic. Even Sub-Terra's marketing is a good counter-example - scientists traipsing around with a gruesome looking alien egg is much more visually unique and mysterious than a bunch of people jumping at unseen VR in a halloween decoration cupboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Indeed, so you agree it's not just a Merlin issue - which is the point I was pushing. I use Disney and universal as examples to show even the largest companies do this so it's really not just a "Merlin" issue. I would personally argue a mockumentary is worse as it showed you things that in the final product were either missed out or could have been done better. In regards to this video in particular I agree, the secrecy is irritating however I gaurentee that if footage was shown there would be even more people complaining about "spoilers". Whilst I remain skeptical about this attraction I fail to see where Merlin has done anything horrifically wrong compared to other companies minus the lack of clear communication between parks and guests (that being said SW8 is concerning me a tad). Anyway, as this is likely going to go no where due to Merlin being such an awful company, I suggest we leave this and move back to Ghost Train Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 13 hours ago, ThaliaKleio said: Hmm that top secret location looks suspiciously like a certain upcharge attraction... I just hope they cracked the code to leave One would hope that now the date of 31st March is out there, it does open on the 31st March Anyway we are forgetting the most crucial question - have Merlin butchered the lovely entrance sign to add ROTD to it or not? A bit of sticky vinyl on it would look totes ridic. Owen, Rach666 and CharlieN 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 59 minutes ago, Owen said: Indeed, so you agree it's not just a Merlin issue - which is the point I was pushing. Anyway, as this is likely going to go no where due to Merlin being such an awful company, I suggest we leave this and move back to Ghost Train It is a Merlin issue, and I am against this kind of hype wherever it appears - in all the super commercial powerful companies. Merlin overhype and dupe their staff just as much as they do it to the public. Does that mean it should just be accepted as a necessity and people shouldn't be encouraged to think for themselves? It was the smokescreen behind which Derren Brown's Ghost Train masqueraded last year, and now they're trying to do it again. Which is why I brought it up in this topic. You may remember how excited people were when the had Derren Brown claiming it would "Completely rewrite what a theme park can do" - when what they actually meant was they'd forced some VR for the sake of VR on to an attraction idea they already had going, thrown lots of money at it (in the wrong places) and never actually thought things through properly. This goes way back to ever since Merlin started their hyperbole PR style. So when will people realise they're just very very good at misleading guests? It's nothing to do with getting people excited the way I see it, it's all to do with hiding their mess and keeping fans loyal regardless of the poor new attractions, closed old attractions, etc.. TPJames, pluk, MattyMoo and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Kong actually has really good guest satisfaction scores, as does Frozen, the only issue with Kong being the timing as it feels really quick. No one has an issue with screens at Islands as it's only the third ride there to utilise screens. Fast and Furious hasn't been tweaked to change theride experience, instead it's a mechanical change so it won't be trackless unlike Kong, an issue that caused most of Kongs downtime. The hype is fine for this yes but not showing the content just ruins that. They could be jumping at nothing, stooges, or even jumping at the lastyear video. The bit where the guy is looking down saying get offme could very well be the creepy girl from the first segment last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 New sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 ^ was just about to post that. I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roodie Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 Unfortunately this type of PR, marketing or advertising is the world we now live in. Everything is over hyped, for example I don't buy aftershave thinking that every supermodel would be attracted to me or that it would improve my life considerably, even though that is what some of the adverts portray. I personally hate this type of advertising, just give me the facts and let me make my own mind up. Although I am looking forward to trying the Ghost Train, as I found it enjoyable, but it is different strokes for different folks. SteveJ and Owen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, ThorpeAddict said: New sign Some people say that Thorpe Park answer my questions... some people say that I am Jart... all I know is - I'll hold your bags. Rach666 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman707 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Share Posted March 16, 2017 It is reassuring to see new footage being made for the VR. Hopeful they have actually listened to everyone's feedback that the last scenes were rubbish.The sign is nice, I like the metalwork and the layered red background shadowed by the text. The rivets make it look a bit like a boiler case. It would hae been easy to do a printed plastic sign but it is nice to have a proper one. I do appreciate extra details like this. Roodie, Matt A, Ryan and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 18 hours ago, Roodie said: Unfortunately this type of PR, marketing or advertising is the world we now live in. Exactly my point, it is the world we live in and so what I was saying is I find it troubling when people act as thought Merlin are the only company who are bad for doing it. Thanks for clearing that up! In all honesty I don't know what people were expecting, it's an attraction where if they show something people will complain about spoilers and if they don't people complain they're hyping it up. It's a very awkward attraction to market in that sense. That being said this video didn't excite me whatsoever, yet it excited others which is another hurdle the marketing team need to cross. I certainly wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now! The the new signage looks to be fairly easy to remove so I imagine any future Ghost Train 'sequels' or 'reversions' would see something along these lines too. I'm personally still hoping the dolls will make an appearance but Merlin/Derren do like their CGI monsters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 34 minutes ago, Owen said: Exactly my point, it is the world we live in and so what I was saying is I find it troubling when people act as thought Merlin are the only company who are bad for doing it. Thanks for clearing that up! But whether other big companies do it or not is nothing to do with what we were saying, so you keep coming back with "see that's the point I was making" when it adds nothing to the discussion about this promo for the Ghost Train? I don't think Merlin were the only ones to do it, but they're a big problem for the theme park industry. If anything that's more reason to point out that this video sets no "promises" for the new ghost train like people were saying from the teaser? Merlin introduced so many false claims and nonsense into the UK theme park industry. "World's first" now means nothing and you can no longer believe anything you see. It's a real shame to see them mislead people so easily all the time, that's my point. The ride just needs to be a great experience and then it will be enough of a success. Trying to manipulate people's thought the way Merlin do with such misleading claims - with all the pictures on the ride's webpage last year taken from PR shoots and stock photos, none of the actual ride, and all the hyperbole claims that it would "rewrite what a theme park can do" and all this. That needn't happen, you can advertise a ride much more truthfully than the way Merlin do it - or at least build good attractions to back up the expectation. This is a company that spends just as much on marketing and promotion as it does the rides themselves. So should we all put up with faulty, mediocre rides with loud, fake advertising claims for the rest the future because "that's just the world we live in"? Meanwhile all the parks without the huge money to spend on advertising (and the decency to be more truthful and creative with it usually!) can do good work yet never get the attention. Marhelorpe, pluk and PinfariFan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 I don't know what you think advertising is, but the whole point of it is to make things out to be amazing and the best there is. Merlin aren't the issue, advertising as a whole is but it's not going away any time soon. I dont like most advertising however I realise that's just the way the cookie crumbles now - people are lead on. That being said I enjoyed Ghost Train and for the most part I have a feeling the marketing team weren't aware of it having multiple tech issues due to hardware, so it's comes down to opinions. The way I see it is that it's fine to have an issue with it but it's not going to change, with anything. Really I think it's best to have an opinion on it and ignore it if it's annoying, I tend to do that in order to have no expectations - however others can get excited for what they want at the end of the day. That being said I think it's fine to critique it however after doing so myself in the past it's really a pointless excercise now. In regards to showing the ride I'm at a loss to be honest. They may have only had PR shots on the website but they also had some clips of a celebrity on the ride and a short behind the scenes video, yet there was uproar over them spoiling it - so I'm not sure what to suggest they do other than not market it at all. Anyway, shall we move on - we've established Merlin marketing is in line with all marketing in its overhyping and exaggerating qualities but honestly no matter what we do or say it's not going to change - better get ready for the SW8 marketing, eh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 Yes, though it's quite different in the sense that Merlin give all the decision making power to their marketing departments - a process which always leads to medicore results, and poor upkeep of existing attractions. They can egg their advertising as much as they want, all promotion is going to create hype like you say, though it shouldn't be as manipulative as the company choose to do it I believe. The way Merlin works is everything has to be justified by marketing, even if its desperate investment needed on an existing classic attraction - money will only be given if it has a "killer new image" and "compelling proposition". It's an awful way to work, gives us 4 year flops all the time like Sub Terra, Saw Alive, Pandamonium, Ice Age 4D, Zufari, Swarm (although some moments of Swarm were fun). And it ensures that existing rides can never be maintained with the budget they need, unless theyre rebranded new. Everything now has to be an IP or a world's worst essentially. That is a policy they work to. So much development power is given to clueless marketing people, who should stick to real marketing - backing up proposed development plans with adequate research and market monitoring - not leading the way into commercialed trash, which is sadly where it's got to by and large. Derren Brown's Ghost Train was a novel, ambitious idea. But the very reason we had the poor-quality VR forced ineffectively on to the ride, at the cost of all its reliability, effeciency and original concept (when the ride could have been much better suited to motion simulation), is because of Merlin's marketing-led policies desperate to grab the VR trend. A real shame, and definitely not how a theme park design company should be run. Their constant flops, short termism and the disastrous opening year for Derren Brown proves that anyway. Though I realise I am talking way beyond that one video now! Owen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted March 17, 2017 Report Share Posted March 17, 2017 The irony is that theme parks are the easiest things to advertise, it requires little to no effort as more often than not the product does the talking for them... You don't need world's firsts or whatever, plenty of other parks prove that... The way Merlin marketed Galactica really showed their colours with "fully dedicated to VR", as if that made any difference whatsoever... Project LC and SteveJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Picture from Thorpe Park Mania's Facebook - looks like DBGT and SAW Alive have mated and had an ugly baby... Whatever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mermalizer Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Ouch...that does not look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Those pipes doe. Modern industrial pipes like that fit in with a Victorian train station/depot because...? CharlieN 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Yuck! They've ruined the look of the exterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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