Coaster Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 6 minutes ago, Marc said: Yes - we know that - we are fortunate enough to be wel educated about the subject, we know the rides are safe, we know what happened was a terrible accident which won't happen again - problem is not everyone else does. Its not "common knowledge" when I talk to my family saying I'm going to Alton towers they don't say why would you go there hex and Charlie are closed, they bring up the smiler incident. you clearly are unable to look past your own vendetta against Merlin and are unable to see the huge impact the Smiler incident has had on all the parks, and will unfortunately continue to have for a while yet. The cuts, of course, do not help. But in the grand scheme of things they will make very little difference. Just one point for clarity, I don't have a "vendetta" against Merlin. It's simply a case of, I don't like what they're doing to the theme parks. The incident has of course had an impact but the best way to counteract that (IMO) would have been to have a really good year in 2016, and then build from that. I just don't think that further cuts is the right approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 24 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: The fact that anyone can work out that out of the millions of people who go on all the rides per year, the accident on The Smiler was one extremely rare incident. We're in a country where thousands of people voted to leave the EU without knowing what the EU is. We're in a country where millions of people read the likes of The Sun, Mirror and Daily Mirror, all of whom have been thrashing 'Alton Towers is unsafe' headlines down people's throats for the past 18 months. We're in an age where everyone has an opinion and overlooks facts, thanks to the rise of social media and ridiculous 'news websites' which are just full of click bait. Don't overestimate the general public's ability to see the obvious. Despite what we as enthusiasts see and think, the public can be very very stupid and gullible. CharlieN, yeah and MattyMoo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: Just one point for clarity, I don't have a "vendetta" against Merlin. It's simply a case of, I don't like what they're doing to the theme parks. The incident has of course had an impact but the best way to counteract that (IMO) would have been to have a really good year in 2016, and then build from that. I just don't think that further cuts is the right approach. Honestly I do get where your coming from - but at the same time I genuinely believe the cuts they made overall would have no difference to the parks attendances this year and will have provided a much needed cost saving. Look at it this way, each year parks add new rides, as new rides are added, the attendances grow year on year - great. But what happens when suddenly them attendances fall, the park suddenly has significant more capacty than is required for its anticipated gate figure - it is unfortunately for us , very sensible for the business to readjust its offering. I've no doubt in 3/4 years when the smiler incident is at the back of everyone's mind and all the rides have reopened (and more added) people will come to accept the cuts were at some point needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 37 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: The fact that anyone can work out that out of the millions of people who go on all the rides per year, the accident on The Smiler was one extremely rare incident. It's time to stop blaming The Smiler's incident for everything to do with the park's current state, it's common knowledge that reduced value for money with ride closures and everything else will put people off going. I'm not suggesting that the incident hasn't had an impact at all, of course it has, but everything else will have only made things worse. It's an extremely rare incident yes, which means it got hours of press time and even this season, every time a ride stops, it gets an article or a THIRD ALTON TOWERS RIDE BREAKSDOWN IN A YEAR news story. It was a major news story, one that ran and ran and ingrained itself into public consciousness. Anyone can work out millions ride, but it can take one incident to shake that foundation. 9 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: Just one point for clarity, I don't have a "vendetta" against Merlin. It's simply a case of, I don't like what they're doing to the theme parks. The incident has of course had an impact but the best way to counteract that (IMO) would have been to have a really good year in 2016, and then build from that. I just don't think that further cuts is the right approach. You live in a delusional world. Throwing more money down the drain would see more staff being let go then already has been. 2015 and 2016 were complete write offs whilst Towers attempts to rebuild its reputation. With the court case now over, 2017 can really start to get the resort back on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Unfortunately we are living in a world where people brainwashed by the media result in Brexit and Trump's presidency happening. With certain papers likely to continue thrashing normal break downs for the foreseeable, I can't see any end to this. 2015 was a disasterous year for the park and 2016 was s year for picking up the pieces which shall likely continue into 2017. 2018 remains an optimistic year with the addition of SW8 and with the competition of Blackpool's mammoth (and maybe others), they will not want to fail. Whilst the ride absences this year have been noticeable, Hex and Ripsaw for me have been the only ones I've really missed from the lineup and I've still enjoyed my park trips on my six visits this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian-S Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Gotta keep those shareholders happy.... Hex and the Flume were the only two rides we missed this year, my wife was looking forward to going back on them until the closures were announced. I'm sure there's been significant impact from the media coverage, some friends were all set to go with us earlier in the year but had "last mine emergencies" that stopped them, this was right after Galactica broke and got all that coverage, their emergency was non existent, they just got scared. Most non-geeks I know who were planing trips had no idea of the ride closures, so I'm not sure myself that that was a major factor in decision making, people were just it scared of the park thanks to the press coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 53 minutes ago, Mark9 said: You live in a delusional world. Throwing more money down the drain would see more staff being let go then already has been. 2015 and 2016 were complete write offs whilst Towers attempts to rebuild its reputation. With the court case now over, 2017 can really start to get the resort back on track. ...with 70 jobs cut. Great start! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: ...with 70 jobs cut. Great start! You'd rather the 70 jobs cut rather then say, Enterprise and Blade closing instead. yeah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Mark9 said: You'd rather the 70 jobs cut rather then say, Enterprise and Blade closing instead. Do we know for definite that the job cuts aren't ride staff/departments, for more SBNO rides next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 The majority of ride staff are seasonal - the cuts sound like they are from permanent jobs so unlikely it would be related. Coaster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Maybe some of the current park managers will be given the boot? I prescribe to the notion that the best way to deal with this year was to be the best they could be, even in the face of the incident and resulting coverage... Guest numbers would've fallen regardless of their decisions, but if they had kept going and not had all the closed rides/shops/eateries then those who did visit would have gained a good visit and kept the reputation relatively intact in terms of Trip Advisor/Facebook/Twitter reviews... I don't think that has been the case, but unfortunately it seems that this is part of the business ideals, which can often do more long term damage... I'd imagine the standard guest visiting would think that those closed rides were closed due to safety concerns (well, Sub Terra was), that's one issue in itself badly dealt with... Then add on the embarrassing TLC thing and it's no surprise we end up with further permanent cuts, because the steps taken post Smiler weren't the right ones... SteveJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: Hex, The Flume and CATCF were key family attractions that appealed to everyone Read what you just said again. Please. 7 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: How on earth would visitors at the park not notice the closures? Before they are there, most members of the GP don't research what rides are SBNO at the park. If you ask AT on Twitter most of the time they'll say whats unavailable on that day instead of what's SBNO, and the closed rides aren't on the map. Heck, out of all the GP reviews I have seen on most social media platforms, none of them have even NOTICED the closed rides! 7 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: You only have to read complaints on the park's social media pages No other person in the world reads the complaints on a parks social media pages before they go. Maybe you, but nobody else. Especially not the GP. 3 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: The fact that anyone can work out that out of the millions of people who go on all the rides per year, the accident on The Smiler was one extremely rare incident. No. No, they can't. Have you seen how many people claim its unsafe? 3 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: It's time to stop blaming The Smiler's incident for everything to do with the park's current state, it's common knowledge that reduced value for money with ride closures and everything else will put people off going. Maybe, but the thing putting people off of going is the fact that there was a MAJOR CRASH on one of their rollercoasters! Besides, most of these rides wouldn't be closed if not for the Smiler crash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 2 hours ago, ChessingtonSam said: Read what you just said again. Please. Before they are there, most members of the GP don't research what rides are SBNO at the park. If you ask AT on Twitter most of the time they'll say whats unavailable on that day instead of what's SBNO, and the closed rides aren't on the map. Heck, out of all the GP reviews I have seen on most social media platforms, none of them have even NOTICED the closed rides! No other person in the world reads the complaints on a parks social media pages before they go. Maybe you, but nobody else. Especially not the GP. No. No, they can't. Have you seen how many people claim its unsafe? Maybe, but the thing putting people off of going is the fact that there was a MAJOR CRASH on one of their rollercoasters! Besides, most of these rides wouldn't be closed if not for the Smiler crash! I've seen the idiotic "OMG dat smiley ride is not safe" comments, but does that really represent the majority of the public? It's only a few hundred people usually on the news articles, which is bad enough, but it's not enough to say that the entirety of the public think that way. People do read social media pages, maybe not the vast majority of people, but I'm fairly sure more than one person in the world reads them otherwise there would be little point in them existing. I also find it interesting that you've said no-one in the world reads the complaints, yet directly above that you've said "out of all the GP reviews I have seen on social media platforms etc..." People will notice that there's less rides to go on, especially if one of their favourites is closed. Whilst I don't dispute that the incident on The Smiler has put people off visiting, what I'm saying is that in my opinion, the cutbacks are making a bad situation worse, and doing more damage to the park than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 27 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: I've seen the idiotic "OMG dat smiley ride is not safe" comments, but does that really represent the majority of the public? Is it even disputable anymore that most of the GP thinks the Smiler is unsafe? 27 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: People do read social media pages, Yes but they don't read all the complaints on the parks Facebook page before they go do they... 27 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: I also find it interesting that you've said no-one in the world reads the complaints, yet directly above that you've said "out of all the GP reviews I have seen on social media platforms etc..." I mean if you watch any sort of vlog on YouTube, or if Alton Towers trends on Twitter (beneath the news etc) 9/10 reviews won't mention the SBNO rides. 27 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: what I'm saying is that in my opinion, the cutbacks are making a bad situation worse, and doing more damage to the park than good Well that's obvious, what everyone is trying to tell you is that's not the reason people won't visit and they are unfortunately necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted November 15, 2016 Report Share Posted November 15, 2016 Very sorry to hear this news, a real shame but to be expected really (unfortunately). One would assume that Sub Terra won't be opening for 2017...I would hope Hex does as that is a genuinely decent all-round attraction, and very much "Alton Towers". I actually quite enjoyed CATCF when I rode a few years ago but can't really agree that the "lack of family attractions" argument quite stacks up considering there's CBeebies Land, Spinball, Mine Train, Rapids etc. that I would count as family rides, personally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivus Prime Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 13 hours ago, MattyMoo said: Very sorry to hear this news, a real shame but to be expected really (unfortunately). One would assume that Sub Terra won't be opening for 2017...I would hope Hex does as that is a genuinely decent all-round attraction, and very much "Alton Towers". I actually quite enjoyed CATCF when I rode a few years ago but can't really agree that the "lack of family attractions" argument quite stacks up considering there's CBeebies Land, Spinball, Mine Train, Rapids etc. that I would count as family rides, personally! I think it's more to do with the quantity of "mid-tier" family rides - the little ones have plenty to do in Cbeebies Land and Cloud Cuckoo Land, but I know that the two times I went this year Runaway Mine Train had ginormous queues compared to everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 On 12/11/2016 at 4:58 PM, Mark9 said: You live in a delusional world. Throwing more money down the drain would see more staff being let go then already has been. 2015 and 2016 were complete write offs whilst Towers attempts to rebuild its reputation. With the court case now over, 2017 can really start to get the resort back on track. Any more staff being let go across the company, who were already paid a fraction of what their jobs were actually worth, and I don't know if their attractions would be able to function properly at all. I don't quite believe that Merlin have taken the right steps because they rarely are pragmatic at operational level and even their cost cutting has been randomly organised. I remember budgets for some other park departments were suddenly scaled up last season to impress guests for the summer, only to know be cut right down again for this coming season and firing long serving staff. Regardless, Merlin continue to spend huge amounts of money building new parks and their current goal to expand into India & other parts of Asia. The crash still affected Alton Towers' attendance badly so further budgeting was understandable, to be honest I'm more accepting of the closed things than most. Hex was in an awful state, Sub Terra should never have existed and had problems, Charlie was a rubbish project from the start - although out of these only Hex was closed for cost saving and the others would have shut anyway. I think it better to save thousands on closing a whole attraction that's in too poor a show-condition to keep going, one that can be brought back to life fairly simply, and then not skimp out on the rest of the offering; instead of slashing everything. Sad to hear though how it seems this year, across all Merlin parks, the slashing is now in full force. Within the company there are many places the costs could have been covered, without butchering the parks and their own reputation. Yet the company is determined to continue its growth rate and refuses to slow to recover from this difficult period, at the cost of all its quality and despite the fact its already damn enormous. I believe it was clearly all heading this way before The Smiler accident too, in fact The Smiler accident was a result of the company's increasingly awful bottom end control under such rapid expansion. MattyMoo, Benin, CharlieN and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 13 hours ago, Archive said: Sub Terra should never have existed. This. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a shorter-lived new Merlin attraction. That's a few million quid they're never getting back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The two live action mazes? I liked Sub Terra, it was actually the sort of thing I want more of, especially for filler attractions (story driven and actually well themed)... Unfortunately the amount of problems it had (both technical and guest wise) has turned it into a bit of a white elephant, especially after Smiler crashed... MattyMoo, CharlieN and JoshuaA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 8 hours ago, MattyMoo said: This. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a shorter-lived new Merlin attraction. That's a few million quid they're never getting back! Eclipse? MattyMoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Good shout on Eclipse - but I guess at least that still lives on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I actually give up with the media... Like, they actually think it's going to be 643 feet high? Kerfuffle, Project LC, Charlesberg and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 44 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said: I actually give up with the media... Like, they actually think it's going to be 643 feet high? This reminds me of the time I spent about forty minutes trying to convince my friend Stealth is nowhere near one thousand metres tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlesberg Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I find it funny when the media tries, they look so ridiculous. It does also serve them right on many occasions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattgwise Posted December 12, 2016 Report Share Posted December 12, 2016 10 hours ago, Coaster Jamie said: I actually give up with the media... Like, they actually think it's going to be 643 feet high? It was a misprint from the very start as this has been brought up before. The 196 metres meant to say 19.6 metres. Shame it isn't 196 metres though, that would require decades of digging with the parks height restrictions :-)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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