Chessington General Discussion

[Benin]

I would've thought a letter from GP was standard practice across the board at all Merlin parks?

[Whatever]

Just now, Benin said:

I would've thought a letter from GP was standard practice across the board at all Merlin parks?

Has to be a letter from within the last twelve months now. His last one was from his diagnosis which was five years ago. 

 

I do entirely get what you mean about RAP exploitation. You can qualify for it with nearly nothing now, and no one is happy in a long queue, whether neurotypical, neurodivergent, able or disabled. I feel a lot of people wouldn't be any worse if there were no such thing as the RAP. 

 

[JoshuaA]

Merlin Parks in general usually have ridiculous amounts of RAP users.. Maybe its exploitation or just poor execution of the system but every non Merlin Park I visit seems to be shocking in comparison to the Merlin RAP.

 

In PA even on a busy day you are lucky to see somebody using PA's version of the RAP, I saw one or two over the space of two days.

In Europa I didn't see a single other person using it.. But then again with Europa the queues are pretty manageable anyway.

 

I guess the staff probably were really not the problem at guest services, its the poor system that Merlin has for the RAP.

Well, its different at Legoland..

 

Legoland's RAP is just..

 

[Matt 236]

The RAP situation has definitely become rather out of hand at the parks in recent years.

 

With a potential daily average of 15 Of every 100 guests acquiring RAP, something does not quite add up and there is probably a proportion of users who are either abusing, stealing  or have found a loop hole in the system. 

 

It should be adressed not all disabilities are visual and a better, fairer and more accurate RAP does need to really be put in place. One that benefits those that require the service but also discourages those trying to use and abuse the system. 

 

Whatever’s posts above remind me of a time when I chatting to a woman who had an autistic son in the Tidal Wave queue once who supposedly was not entitled to RAP. I thought this was off as regardless of his diagnosis they should’ve really been RAP. 

[streetmagix]

I was under the assumption that Europa doesn't have any form of RAP, I've never seen anyone entering the ride from the exit ever.

 

I agree the RAP situation has gotten a little out of hand. I think Merlin have tried to tighten up the RAP system in the last year or so, this has caused more issues as people who were entitled are now not. There's a lot of animosity on both sides too.

 

As a general point I do wish Merlin would upgrade and standardise their IT infrastructure. So much of what happens at ticket booths or guest services could be achieved with better web services. 2 for 1, fast track, RAP, digipass could be done remotely leaving guest services for complaints and any oblique requests.

[Benin]

Port Aventura don't appear to have one (or it's limited to 'severe' disabilities)...

 

German laws mean that RAP doesn't exist. At all. In any of their parks...

 

Swear the letter must have always been within 12 months, or I'm just being logical... Obviously most disabilities are permanent, but one for every year seems sensible because things may have changed due to treatments or the person being better adapted to such situations... I don't know enough about the autistic side to judge it... I think because it's so wide ranging you cannot easily have a single file for it...

 

Plus I think some kids these days are diagnosed as such when really they are just badly behaved... 

[Mega-Lite]

We can't just blame Merlin/CWOAR on this one guys, alot of the problem comes from the GP's perception of the RAP system.

 

I've known people in the past who know full well they are able and happy to queue in the standard queue lines, but because they have X wrong with them, they think, might as well bring a letter from my doctor and get myself that RAP, so essentially turning it into free fast track.

 

I've also heard RAP described as fast track by the GP so many times it's almost funny, this is how wide spread the system is misunderstood.

 

When I worked at Chessington, I can attest to what has been said, quite often on Fury, you'd see the RAP queue stretching down the exit ramp, an easy 20 minute queue. For those using it as fast track, that's a bonus, the main queue is 90 minutes, for those who NEED to use the queue, 20 minutes is unacceptable and I felt very uncomfortable with it on a few occasions.

 

Tell me off if I'm wrong Herman, but I seem to remember there was a maximum amount of RAP users you could have on board Fury at any one time, meaning your comment about every other car might be slightly off? That or policies have changed?

 

So in summary, I absolutely applaud Merlin/CWOAR if they are indeed increasing the circumstances for offering the RAP service, I just hope they are prepared for a backlash and stick to their guns when it comes. It's about time this system was sorted out, it's been abused for far too long.  

[HermanTheGerman]

14 minutes ago, Mega-Lite said:

We can't just blame Merlin/CWOAR on this one guys, alot of the problem comes from the GP's perception of the RAP system.

 

I've known people in the past who know full well they are able and happy to queue in the standard queue lines, but because they have X wrong with them, they think, might as well bring a letter from my doctor and get myself that RAP, so essentially turning it into free fast track.

 

I've also heard RAP described as fast track by the GP so many times it's almost funny, this is how wide spread the system is misunderstood.

 

When I worked at Chessington, I can attest to what has been said, quite often on Fury, you'd see the RAP queue stretching down the exit ramp, an easy 20 minute queue. For those using it as fast track, that's a bonus, the main queue is 90 minutes, for those who NEED to use the queue, 20 minutes is unacceptable and I felt very uncomfortable with it on a few occasions.

 

Tell me off if I'm wrong Herman, but I seem to remember there was a maximum amount of RAP users you could have on board Fury at any one time, meaning your comment about every other car might be slightly off? That or policies have changed?

 

So in summary, I absolutely applaud Merlin/CWOAR if they are indeed increasing the circumstances for offering the RAP service, I just hope they are prepared for a backlash and stick to their guns when it comes. It's about time this system was sorted out, it's been abused for far too long.  

The rule on Fury is 1 disabled guest + 3 companions. So that's one full car. On busy days with the 20min + RAP queue you mentioned, it was common that every other car sent would have a disabled guest and their three companions. It was a bit daft.

[RobF]

Having visited europa and PA they both offer disability access via the exit on nearly all rides. I think the only attraction at PA that doesnt cover the disabled access is the rapids.

Though as mentioned they are not commonly used like in the uk

[Mattgwise]

Europa Park had two guests go up the exit path for Silver Star whilst I was waiting for backrow this time last year. The staff member held us back and let them on. They were literally the only two guests I saw use the facility though, so certainly must have strict rules to get it.

[RobF]

1 hour ago, Mattgwise said:

Europa Park had two guests go up the exit path for Silver Star whilst I was waiting for backrow this time last year. The staff member held us back and let them on. They were literally the only two guests I saw use the facility though, so certainly must have strict rules to get it.

Europa didnt have a wristband system when we enquired they just got us to show the blue badge at the rides exit

[JoshuaA]

On 4/8/2018 at 7:12 AM, Benin said:

German laws mean that RAP doesn't exist. At all. In any of their parks...

They had a very similar version to the RAP when I went there so..

They are very strict with it though and I don't think its commonly used at all.

18 hours ago, RobF said:

Europa didnt have a wristband system when we enquired they just got us to show the blue badge at the rides exit

When did you last visit? I remember on my first visit it was pretty much the same thing but last year they gave out a pass and it seemed like they overall organised it a lot better.

[Benin]

Emphasis on 'had'; Europa did 'have' a system like that, but that was around 3/4 years ago...

 

Now their systems appear to solely be for those with that 'proper level' of benefits (a lot of the parks on the continent ask for proof of benefits I.e. a blue badge, which is problematic for those with actual disabilities who aren't broken enough to get one but still cannot actually queue); but weirdly places like Efteling and Walibi will take doctors letters and happily hand them out (although the Walibi system is dumb and forces people to stand at the exit for the queue's duration because LOGIC)...

 

Then again some parks in the same countries just have different ideas... Port Aventura and Tibidabo for example... One had a very rude staff member say "no pass" and not be very helpful at all to options, and the other one had someone bend over backwards and get explain the system whilst getting a gentleman called Luis to get a wheelchair... I'm sure regular viewers can guess which park was which...

 

They're nowhere near as widely used though, which is likely a culture thing (very few parks that sell Fastpass seem to have people using it, whereas the UK it's effectively relied upon now)...

[RobF]

1 hour ago, JoshuaA said:

They had a very similar version to the RAP when I went there so..

They are very strict with it though and I don't think its commonly used at all.

When did you last visit? I remember on my first visit it was pretty much the same thing but last year they gave out a pass and it seemed like they overall organised it a lot better.

We visited europa October 2016 and portaventura june 2017

[yeah]

@Whatever Interesting that your brother doesn't get the RAP when I do, and we have the same condition. They seem to be really inconsistent with their rules with RAP.

On 4/7/2018 at 11:10 PM, HermanTheGerman said:

Chessington was suffering from LOADS RAP exploitation in the past few years, with legions of disabled guests (regardless of whether they're fit to queue) getting RAPs left right and centre. While at other parks the rides have the capacity to cope with a few extra, non-legitimate RAPs that slip through the net, at Chessington this really isn't possible. (Dragon's Fury for example would commonly send every other car with a RAP group.) They really had to clamp down on it to ensure that queues moved as efficiently as possible.

 

Given how many RAPs used to be handed out, it was not uncommon for 20min + waits with a RAP on the major rides, which defeats the object for those that genuinely do need a pass. It can also have very bad effects on the main queues, given the park's three biggest rides only pull 500pph, 750pph and 400pph respectively.

This checks out quite alot actually, I don't think I've waited more than five minutes for Fury all season whereas last year it was awful.

[markfranklin]

Some interesting observations about the increasing use of RAP across Merlin parks.  We've been to Efteling three times over the past few years (four days per visit), and I've seen <10 people using their RAP system in all that time.  I remember one chap using the exit, and being lifted from a wheelchair on to the Python ride.  In the general queues, I saw lots of disabled guests.

 

A couple of weeks ago at Chessington, having waited for a long time, we reached the Vampire gates and asked politely if we could be allocated the back row.  The staff member said absolutely not - the RAP guests must use the two back rows only (for evacuation reasons), and therefore people from the main queue can only use the other rows (unless there was no-one in the RAP queue).

 

Later that day, we went on again and were next to ride, waiting for row 7.  An announcement came over the speaker to say that as the RAP queue was very long, they would be filling the next train fully with RAP guests, and sorry to those waiting for the inconvenience.

 

So, either it's a lie about RAP customers having to use the back rows, or there was a mammoth Health & Safety infringement that day!

 

[Matt 236]

53 minutes ago, markfranklin said:

A couple of weeks ago at Chessington, having waited for a long time, we reached the Vampire gates and asked politely if we could be allocated the back row.  The staff member said absolutely not - the RAP guests must use the two back rows only (for evacuation reasons), and therefore people from the main queue can only use the other rows (unless there was no-one in the RAP queue).

 

Later that day, we went on again and were next to ride, waiting for row 7.  An announcement came over the speaker to say that as the RAP queue was very long, they would be filling the next train fully with RAP guests, and sorry to those waiting for the inconvenience.

 

So, either it's a lie about RAP customers having to use the back rows, or there was a mammoth Health & Safety infringement that day!

 

Typically for most ‘Coaster type rides’ in Merlin parks, RAP users will normally be positioned at the back row or last two rows (subject to the size of the group and train). Normally it will just be one group or wristband per train (subject to the user’s severities). 

 

Unfortunately sonething does not seem to be adding with Merlin’s use of the RAP system, as the queues and way they are managed seem to be rathe out of hand or late. Too often, there are cases of the RAP queue overflowing on busy days, where it reaches a point where users may wait around 30 minutes to ride or the RAP allocation has to be increased until the queue drops down. This is a lose-lose situation because it means some RAP users will become uncomftable  (especially if they hate quieting) and/or main queue users will complain about the allocation. The staff receive regular abuse as a result of this. 

 

There definitely needs to be revised system for this, because the current one does not seem to work. Somehow a system which means that only those who require additional needs or cannot queue in any circumstances. Unfortunately there is no easy path and no matter which way they go about this, there always be angry voices complaining, which is not massively surprising. I don’t think this is a one size fits all situation.

 

I should point out, not all disabilities are visual and the amount of people who use wheelchairs (or other forms of mobility support) are lower than you think. Too often in society, non wheelchair users ( who have a disability) get looked upon negatively if they park in a disabled parking space.

[markfranklin]

I fully agree with your comments Matt.  Quite how Merlin address the situation to restrict the volume of RAP issue is another matter - I can imagine it would be a very difficult task.

[Benin]

1 hour ago, markfranklin said:

Some interesting observations about the increasing use of RAP across Merlin parks.  We've been to Efteling three times over the past few years (four days per visit), and I've seen <10 people using their RAP system in all that time.  I remember one chap using the exit, and being lifted from a wheelchair on to the Python ride.  In the general queues, I saw lots of disabled guests.

 

A couple of weeks ago at Chessington, having waited for a long time, we reached the Vampire gates and asked politely if we could be allocated the back row.  The staff member said absolutely not - the RAP guests must use the two back rows only (for evacuation reasons), and therefore people from the main queue can only use the other rows (unless there was no-one in the RAP queue).

 

Later that day, we went on again and were next to ride, waiting for row 7.  An announcement came over the speaker to say that as the RAP queue was very long, they would be filling the next train fully with RAP guests, and sorry to those waiting for the inconvenience.

 

So, either it's a lie about RAP customers having to use the back rows, or there was a mammoth Health & Safety infringement that day!

 

 

Regarding the back row, putting the disabled guests there means that they have to travel the least amount of distance should an evacuation take place (off the lift hills obviously)...

 

Even 10 years ago full trains were used on rare times, though that might be as well because of Exit Passes (not sure if these are still a thing?)

[yeah]

20 minutes ago, Matt Creek said:

I should point out, not all disabilities are visual and the amount of people who use wheelchairs (or other forms of mobility support) are lower than you think. Too often in society, non wheelchair users ( who have a disability) get looked upon negatively if they park in a disabled parking space.

I know most here would be well aware of that, but thanks for saying it nonetheless. With ASD, most of the time you really can't tell from the outside and the amount of dirty looks I'll get sometimes are ridiculous. Couple of times people have said stuff, too, one guy at Chessington tried to get a refund for his fastrack because I got the RAP without paying money. You'd think grown adults would realise this but maybe not.

 

Regarding changes to the RAP system, I don't really know what they could do. In fairness the waits have been alot shorter at Chessie lately, I haven't seen Vampire out in Trail for a while now, and Fury barely ever has a queue now.

[JoshC.]

I've heard Chessington suffered from a minor power cut today (due to external factors), which affected rides like Tiger Rock and Tomb Blaster, as well as many of the queue boards. Problem was sorted out within an hour or two and the park extended ride close for some rides, including Tiger Rock, as a result.

 

Not a bad gesture for what is still a very quiet day for the park.

[yeah]

New TVs have been put in some of the queues, Ive seen Fury and Tiger Rock so far.

 

Also, Signage 101 with Chessington

[Coaster]

24 minutes ago, ChessingtonSam said:

New TVs have been put in some of the queues, Ive seen Fury and Tiger Rock so far.

 

Also, Signage 101 with Chessington

Post it notes - really?! ?

[Matt 236]

Well, it’s better than nothing. 

 

True Proffesionalism.

[Marhelorpe]

38 minutes ago, ChessingtonSam said:

New TVs have been put in some of the queues, Ive seen Fury and Tiger Rock so far.

 

Also, Signage 101 with Chessington

2nd to Disney right there folks! xD

 

Have they blocked off the old entrance for single riders and the disabled queue?