Park Operations

[BigBobJones]

Also this money grabbing thing is really boring unless someone has some figures. Guests having bad days (which includes pricing and up-selling) will just mean them being less likely to return and the park losing money which in turn will force the park to up its game. If the park was rolling in profits and I went on a quiet day with long queues due to capacity then I would be annoyed but at the same time, the park could be completely tanking, which just opens up other questions on how the park should respond. We just don't know without figures.

My honest opinion and I believe most of the GP will agree is: I don't care if TP are making 1P profit a year or 10 million pounds profit.

• Does the ticket price go up and down depending on how much money they are making?
• Do you pay more when the park is empty and less when the park is full?

The simple answer is no, you pay the same no matter if you go on a Tuesday during term time or Bank Holiday Monday.

I have said this before, nearly every visit to TP you get a completely different experience, One visit will be brilliant, you get on rides quickly, get to do everything in one day, the next visit many rides are out of action or on one train, the next visit you only get on 4-5 main rides in an entire day. Thorpe needs to work hard to ensure that they give a consitent experience to their guests.

Fright nights for me was a big disappointment, the sound in the Lost City was appalling it was too quiet, produced no atmosphere and the Governor just made our group think "WTF?" Several areas had no sound at all. If they had kept on the standard park music it would have been a lot better IMO. The prisoners in the Saw queue were very good. Our group didn't do a single maze, why is this you ask, well 1) not paying for a maze after paying an event fee (which you don't have to do at Alton), 2) the queues were so long, now way am I going to spend 2 hours of my life queuing no matter how good it is and Fasttrack was not an option. Also the one thinge on the back of my mind was to get out of the place before it closed at 9 as I didn't want to spent 40 mins in a mega long queue to get out of the car park, after experiencing that level of disaster during Sun Scream.

If anything I hope the Crash Pad gives us more facilities and possibly ERT as to be honest Thorpe are not giving us much in return, cancelling the fireworks was another kick in the teeth for us. I read about people saying the Alton Fireworks were not as good, but from what I saw on Youtube they were well up there. Thorpe couldn't be bothered to buy a £9.99 box from Asda and let it off.

Note to Thorpe... I won't pay an event fee for Fright nights again, it was not worth it, but I would happily pay £10 event fee if you put on a good firework show like Alton.

[planenut]

Let's not mention the approximate minimum figure of £677,000 that they now make per year from car parking.

[TPJames]

just though let ppl knw they were selling fastrack on the final day of the season when there were like 0-10 min queues lol what are thorpe park thinking thought if it hit less capacity they wouldnt sell fastrack

Yea they always do that..... The queue time board for stealth deliberately said 45 mins and a lady was telling us the queue was 1hr- trying to sell fastrack, the queue turned out to be 5 mins...

[TPJames]

Also, Thorpe Parks tickets are going up and up in price.... next year it is gonna be reaching like £60 pounds for an adult... who knows! If you go on a really busy day £45 pounds to enter is just not worth it! Thorpe need to get sorted out before they lose al their fans and I mean all of them.....

P.s Thorpe need a new ride in 2013 I dont think people will want the same old.... but maybe it could just make my day more enjoyable with shorter queues!

[JJ99]

I'm sure everyone on here wld never say no to a new ride but we have just had a multi million top branded coaster with excellent theme during the worst recession in decades too. So I can accept limited or even no additions next year. Re the price, yes it is high but lets be realistic, no one pays full price do they.

[TPJames]

I'm sure everyone on here wld never say no to a new ride but we have just had a multi million top branded coaster with excellent theme during the worst recession in decades too. So I can accept limited or even no additions next year. Re the price, yes it is high but lets be realistic, no one pays full price do they.

No no one does pay full price I usually have an annual pass and my friends will use a 2 for 1

I can't say swarm is a top coaster....... Look at x flights layout so much longer.... Yes the THEMEING for the swarm is great but the ride could be at least double the length with worse THEMEING :/ and to be honest I still prefer stealth, saw, rush, Colossus, slammer and nemesis inferno to the swarm(unless right back on the swarm

[BigBobJones]

The Swarm is good, but I only went on less than half my visits as the queue was too bad, id prefer Saw and Stealth.

I'm sure everyone on here wld never say no to a new ride but we have just had a multi million top branded coaster with excellent theme during the worst recession in decades too. So I can accept limited or even no additions next year. Re the price, yes it is high but lets be realistic, no one pays full price do they.

Yes we have indeed had this coaster and a very good addition to the park, but we also lost Saw Alive, Voyages and CCR.

What I really can't understand is why they can't open CCR and Saw Alive during the busy times, Sun Scream, busy weekends when they know the park is going to be busy. Everything they need is in place, so its just a case of opening it? I'm sure Voyages has already been ripped out and sold on by now so that cant be opened. As a guest I could see they made extra effort when it is busy, then it would make all the difference.

We all know we are not going to get anything major for many many years now, but they really need to produce something new for next year with so much competition from Alton and Chessington with their new rides and the new Dungeons, that is just their own attractions who are going to pull the crowds away. I think what all guests want is all rides to be open all year and run at full capacity without being forced to buy Fastrack just to have a good time. A lick of paint, general tidy up and the audio if working correctly will make a huge improvement. But this is to be honest the minimum they should be providing as part of their ever increasing ticket price.

And then for the non hardcore fan who will go because they like Thorpe, they need a sweetener to give them a reason to go, so this is where a new ride would be a pull for them, it could even be a second hand flat.

We all know the club and ride nights worked very well for them and I am sure they will continue in greater numbers along with the crash pad, but I don't want the day guests receiving less, as money is being focused on club and ride nights.

Here is an idea, cheap to do and for me others I know will love it, forget ride and rave, forget Fright Nights, how about simply doing an event called "Coasters in the dark" where you get to ride the normal rides in the dark without it being mega packed?

[Ricky]

I went To towers in July time and they told us Rita was 45-60 minutes to sell us fastrack do we did and it turned out to be 5 minutes. Thorpe arnt the only guilty ones!

[pluk]

I went towers in July time and they told us Rita was 45-60 minutes to sell us fastrack do we did and it turned out to be 5 minutes. Thorpe arnt the only guilty ones!

How would this be in any way possible, seeing as you can see the whole of the queueline?

[Benin]

How would this be in any way possible, seeing as you can see the whole of the queueline?

Most guests to theme parks do seem to leave their brain at the door... It's kinda this whole take advantage of the belief of how Fastrack will affect the day thing...

We know Thorpe aren't the only guilty party with it, but Thorpe mess up their Fastrack selling on a much more regular basis than the rest... The overselling is a constant problem on standard weekends as well as the peak (summer, easter, halloween) days... And when it's done on weekdays it just shows a complete lack of actual sense or desire to give the customers a sense of satisfaction and a good day...

And look what happened last time Thorpe plonked in a ride because of another silly view that you MUST have a new ride every year... If our parks here actually invested money into the infrastructure and tarting the park up and producing so much more than just the rides, there would be SUCH a big difference to the casual GP market... The parks need to consider methods of producing a good day out environment, rides do not mean everything at a theme park... You only have to look at the successful parks in the world in Europe AND America for this plain factor... Six Flags focused on rides a few years back, that clearly worked...

And saying that they could've made Swarm longer? NO, NO, NO... Considering the fact that before Swarm that area was water, the cost would SOAR so much just for the groundwork alone... What they did is fine enough, Swarm is an excellent ride (if only lacking a truly exceptional finale), there is no point comparing it to any American version, because ALL their rides are technically bigger, longer, faster, taller, etc than any of our rides... Shame that those factors do not automatically make a good ride... Indeed, compare Nemesis to most American Inverts, and it dominates them...

The only thing I would've changed with Swarm was to sort out the finale... Kinda where it loses a point to Raptor really... But for Thorpe to do something like Swarm shows a very different approach to things... Why would no theme and the ride being longer be any good? The theme is what makes the ride... Would hate for Thorpe to have continued a trend of the mid 2000s of building rides with little (Stealth) or no (Samurai, Rush, Slammer) theme...

Tl;dr - Fastrack overselling is a burden at all the parks but Thorpe is the worst... Getting a new ride for the sake of getting a new ride when there are clear infrastructure issues (painting, lack of budgets) isn't the best way to run a theme park if you want people to return... And Swarm couldn't have been made longer without excessive extra cost, and the theme is the best on park now...

[Deleted Users]

And then for the non hardcore fan who will go because they like Thorpe, they need a sweetener to give them a reason to go, so this is where a new ride would be a pull for them, it could even be a second hand flat.

While initially cheap, Samurai and Storm Surge have both given the park problems and don't have the capacity that a ride at Thorpe should have. I think a new attraction just for the sake of it would be a mistake. The problem is more the mentality both on the side of the consumer and company that there needs to be something new. It seems to be hard-wired into the British parks in particular.

[Mark9]

While initially cheap, Samurai and Storm Surge have both given the park problems and don't have the capacity that a ride at Thorpe should have. I think a new attraction just for the sake of it would be a mistake. The problem is more the mentality both on the side of the consumer and company that there needs to be something new. It seems to be hard-wired into the British parks in particular.

And to take that further, if the short term rides that were thrown in were any good, we wouldn't have to see this yearly investment that Thorpe in particular sees as important. As it stands, the rides at Thorpe are either not very memorable or don't offer that unique experience that people will visit time and time again for.

[Marc]

And to take that further, if the short term rides that were thrown in were any good, we wouldn't have to see this yearly investment that Thorpe in particular sees as important. As it stands, the rides at Thorpe are either not very memorable or don't offer that unique experience that people will visit time and time again for.

I do disagree with this, maybe to somone whos travled the world that the case, but to a group of mates looking for a day out I expect the majority of the rides are pretty decent and memorable for them.

[Mark9]

Memorable enough to visit time and time again for is the main point I'm making here

[Fred]

Only ride worth riding time and time again at thorpe is swarm. It's reridability is immense - you don't see people running around stealths queue to try different seats or sides!

With Rita: Was the queue genuinely 5mins, or was it after the incident so the queue has to be away from launch track - making the main queue seem 5mins to anyone using the fastrack queue?

[TPJames]

I went To towers in July time and they told us Rita was 45-60 minutes to sell us fastrack do we did and it turned out to be 5 minutes. Thorpe arnt the only guilty ones!

I know this was what happened to me on stealth it is absoloutely ridiculous!

As for thorpe park.... The swarm isn't amazing its good.. A longer layout would do but they didn't make it, I don't even bother to queue for it

[Benin]

Why don't you actually bother to queue for it, when it's actually the second longest coaster at Thorpe behind Colossus...

http://rcdb.com/4814.htm

Not exactly sommat to complain about really the length then... So..

[TPJames]

Why don't you actually bother to queue for it, when it's actually the second longest coaster at Thorpe behind Colossus...

http://rcdb.com/4814.htm

Not exactly sommat to complain about really the length then... So..

No..... It can't be I know the facts say it but doesn't saw the ride and nemesis inferno feel much longer than the swarm?

I'm not saying the swarm is bad I'm just saying that it isn't the best winged coaster out there! The THEMEING is excellent and because you have said they would have to pay for land on water I totally understand why it is not longer.....

However, you say the ending is poor I love the twist at the end it makes me come out of my seat like on the twists on Colossus, that is the best part, as for how quick the ride is it feels dreadfully slow if you sit in the middle, it only feels fast at the front or the back!

Lengthwise:

Yes it says the swarm is longer but it doesn't feel like it, whereas saw the ride and nemesis inferno have twists and turns and drops, the swarm tackles its inversions in a row, yes you could say nemesis inferno does this aswell but it has more twists and turns! I love the swarm and I kinda prefer it to nemesis and Colossus if sitting on the right back seats but as for length it doesn't feel longer!

[JoshC.]

Strangely enough, I believe Swarm has the longest ride duration out of all the coasters at Thorpe.

Inferno and Saw probably feel longer due to the pre-lift sections, and the fact Saw has MCBR in the layout. Granted, the lift and final turn on Swarm probably do add a fair bit of time to the ride, but still, time-wise, Swarm is the longest. Personally, I think Swarm doesn't feel too short and the timing of the ride is perfect; each to one's own I guess.

Might be worth noting that the most recent MTDP stated that the 2012 and 2015/6 coasters would not exceed 850m in length (ie Colossus' length).

[planenut]

Certainly this proves what JoshC referred to, each to their own. A longer ride doesn't necessarily make it better, especially if it includes a braking zone wait, but it does amaze me the amount of people that come off a ride to then criticize the shortness of it, after having waited sometimes over one hour? Surely they'd have worked out the times from watching it whilst queuing?

[pluk]

EDIT this is in reply to a rather good post which was above but has been deleted, so makes not much sense now. Oh wells

Thanks for that clearly very well informed insight into the parks operations, it really interests me to see how it works (and why it sometimes doesn't).

That is a much better explanation of the system used to manage fastrack and the reasons it sometimes fails. You mention the limit is moveable, would you be able to say what factor it is that allows for that movement? I still maintain the limit should not be moveable as the capacity of the ride is the defining factor and that it static, unless you can explain why it should move? And yes the time slots obviously should be rigorously enforced. The system as it stands seems to have fallen over on numerous occasions this year. I'm surprised they haven't made significant changes before now, even if it is as simple as making staff enforce the times.

The second train issue is where my sympathy is slightly lost. I don't doubt it is a difficult job. I don't doubt it takes a lot of time and training to be able to do it. I don't doubt it is an expensive undertaking and a significant portion of the costs of running the whole park. But they know their opening times, they know the work that needs to be done and how long that will take. Unexpected things will happen and that can't be helped, but if they know they are planning to fail by not having the rides cleared in time for opening then something should be changed. Whether that be the hours engineers work, or number of engineers employed, or how they are trained is not for me to say. Good to hear they get crap from above when it is not up to scratch, got to keep them on their toes!

All that matters to me as the consumer is the rides are open and queues are managed fairly with wait times reasonable and reflective of the busyness of the park. How the park achieve that is up to them. But from my own experiences, those of my non enthusiast friends and family, and clearly a good few people on here and other forums, it has simply not been achieved consistently recently.

[daboywunda]

Thanks for that reply.. It's one of the most level headed matter of fact posts I think I've ever seen on any forum. You mentioned about the management being on the case if there is a ride opened minus effects.. So do you know what the management say about the obvious missing effects from rides? For example, mist and both rows of lights on Nemesis Inferno's tunnel, smoke effect on Stealth's launch, Swam's intermittent effects (mainly the water skims), water effects on Rumba? Who would be placed responsible for ensuring the effects are working and/or repaired? I only ask because there doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency fix some of them or even have them running (namely the Stealth smoke effect and Nemesis Inferno's mist / lights) - Rather than jumping on the "Thorpe just don't care" opinion some people have, I'd like to fully understand the process it goes through to end up not working... Although, I do have to say that Thorpe have gotten better with their effects in recent years.

[TPJames]

When did the second train go to Switzerland???!!! I went to thorpe park in September and I'm sure they were running it on two trains!- when I went on fright night I didn't ride Colossus so I don't know but don't you think the queues are just gonna be to long on one train!

As for what you have said..... I do think that you are mostly telling the truth and this is off topic but when thorpe do something wrong and you complain they give you fastrack.... They don't bother sorting out your problem! At alton is this the same issue?

[Ricky]

Due to a situation out of Thorpe Park's control an issue arose on Colossus's second train which could only be resolved by the manufacturer. This happened in late September I think, can't really remember.

The fastrack thing with hosts imposing strict policy's with time slots, there's only so much hosts can do but at the end of the day they have paid for it and therefor its not easy refusing people.

Hopefully as previously said times will catch up and in future seasons two trains will be operational at all times on coasters!

[AstroDan]

Good post on the previous page, although three staff on a ride entrance at Alton Towers? Not sure what's going on there. The park lacks budget these days, and this is why Enterprise only runs on 1 member of staff (compared to 2 or 3 on Zodiac), and Submission only runs 1 operator and 1 host, thus meaning both arms cannot run. Rita and Th13teen no longer have an entrance host as a matter of course, and neither does Oblivion. Air and Nemesis do, however.