Sidders Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hmm interesting, id actually say this is a pretty big bit of market research personally, their facebook likes along with their twitter followers is over 700,000 people they've just put that too, when you bare in mind how many people actually fill in questionnaires and what not thats a hell of a lot of people to ask. My thoughts exactly! Brilliant couple of posts on the previous page Sidders! Just wanted to add / point out a couple of things: I really do agree here. Another thought which springs to mind is the fact that the MTDP stated the next two coasters (ie, Swarm and the next one) would not exceed 850m in length. Take into account a potential 50m high lift and 50m high drop, that will add up to about 150m of track there alone (unless you have vertical lift / drop), which leaves very little ride track. Granted, Outlaw Run is just under 900m, but I've always thought it's a short coaster, and doesn't do a woodie justice in that sense. Maybe, though, a short woodie would help with the planning permission, as less track means less 'visual pollution', if you will. I definitely remember around the time Saw opened hearing that the Saw IP was 'fastracked'. I remember it being in an interview with someone from Merlin and/or Lionsgate, but the actual IP tie-in was pushed forward quite quickly. If I remember correctly, the original plan was just the abandoned windmill style, before an IP was decided later on after planning was granted, with a couple of horror franchises being considered, before Saw was agreed upon (Texas Chainsaw Massacre was a candidate I believe, for example). As you say, the videos didn't really give any nudge to Saw whatsoever until the name was released (at midnight - on a Tuesday ), and then afterwards the videos ran dry until opening. I remember the minisite showed space for monthly videos from November until March, which many speculated would set up a good backstory, but instead a November video with a No Limits recreation of the ride and a March video on the day of opening only turned up. I do agree that a variant of the Dark Forest theme could have easily fit in with Thorpe and Canada Creek too. Cheers Josh, I'm sure a short woodie would help planning, but I'd love for Thorpe to go all-out with this build if it's true they are indeed building a wood. Early hints suggest it's Intamin, and Intamin don't do compact woodies very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Cheers Josh, I'm sure a short woodie would help planning, but I'd love for Thorpe to go all-out with this build if it's true they are indeed building a wood. Early hints suggest it's Intamin, and Intamin don't do compact woodies very well I don't think they have fully decided yet on whether they are going to build a woodie. To be honest if they do I will just be happy enough to see a woodie, regardless of size or manufacturer. I agree though that it would be good if they went all out with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Here's a strange idea, let's just build a solid, non-record breaking ride that just makes everyone happy... Let's just build a Wodan for once... You mean like the Swarm which despite being well liked by enthusiasts and the GP who rode it, was not enough to stop a 10% drop in attendance and its gimmick of backwards seats has done nothing to reverse the decline in attendance figures. Rides like The Smiler, Stealth and Saw are proving that what attracts people to UK parks is heights, IP's or record breakers. If thats what the public want then that is what Merlin will give them. Inferno 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 I really hope this is some serious sort of market research and not just a bit of fun interacting with people who like/follow them... although it's nice to see them replying, and to me at that does sound somewhat promising doesn't it? http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/DeanGaryCox/media/thorpe_zps70487a7a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 You mean like the Swarm which despite being well liked by enthusiasts and the GP who rode it, was not enough to stop a 10% drop in attendance and its gimmick of backwards seats has done nothing to reverse the decline in attendance figures. Rides like The Smiler, Stealth and Saw are proving that what attracts people to UK parks is heights, IP's or record breakers. If thats what the public want then that is what Merlin will give them. So the gimmick hasn't made an improvement? More than likely because the gimmick was done late, as a tacked on and poorly implemented system that hasn't been that well received as a result... Swarm had an issue with not being 'intense' enough in the public eye, especially sitting between Saw and Stealth (and to a degree, Colossus)... Although it's still arguable on the other hand whether or not there were external aspects affecting the drop in attendances... Public view certainly is based upon height and inversions = intensity... It's disappointing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 26, 2013 Report Share Posted June 26, 2013 Well, if the Scenic Railway in Margate is'nt made of wood, what is it made of? It's the same class of ride as the Rollercoaster in Gt Yarmouth, a wooden Scenic railway with onride brakeman. What defines a wooden coaster is the track it runs on, or in, if it's a side friction coaster, which Leap the Dips, the oldest operating coaster is a prime example of. I never said the Margate Scenic Railway wasn't made of wood, I said it isn't called a wooden coaster like say, the Big Dipper at Blackpool is. It is one of eight remaining Scenic Railway coasters in the world, unique with brakeman. It is also more commonly referred to as a side friction coaster, but this is untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 So the gimmick hasn't made an improvement? More than likely because the gimmick was done late, as a tacked on and poorly implemented system that hasn't been that well received as a result... Swarm had an issue with not being 'intense' enough in the public eye, especially sitting between Saw and Stealth (and to a degree, Colossus)... Although it's still arguable on the other hand whether or not there were external aspects affecting the drop in attendances... Public view certainly is based upon height and inversions = intensity... It's disappointing... How would someone know a ride isn't intense before they get to the park and try it for themselves? The only thing I can guess is word of mouth. Besides the gimmick as we are calling it wasn't a last minute decision that the park decided to do on a whim. What was last minute is the way that it was implemented into the queuing system which clearly was rushed through with no logical thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Word of mouth is a big factor, hence why a failed gimmick like Swarm (it was advertised as an intense gimmick, a la Thirteen, and we all remember how that turned out, even if a fair few of us these days actually like Thirteen) hasn't had a decent reception... So looking at it, it's all about how the ride is presented by the park through both real-life and promotions and whether or not people's perceptions agree with the actual ride experience... If the ride had ended parallel to the intense connotations given by the theme and adverts, then it would probably be loved, but as the Wing-Riders are all about the experience rather than intensity (based on some reports off Gatekeeper, this theme is a constant), it didn't match up so wasn't deemed 'good'... Whilst Saw, Stealth and Colossus are pretty much clear what to expect from the ride, and do actual run parallel to these expectations (Saw runs like a death-trap, Stealth and Colossus are Ronseal rides), and are hence more successful... So really, it's all about whether or not the gimmick fits into the ride as a whole and how the park presents it... But I'd much rather see a ride that doesn't rely on such a gimmick and just be damn good and then have that news spread through word of mouth, I dislike how every new thing in the UK has to have a gimmick or be unique or have an IP attached to them and results in a rather poorly thought out ride, it's just a pet annoyance... OldFarmerDean 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 Very true Benin, and there's certain to be a reason why The Swarm doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere on Thorpe's website homepage or any of the sliding screens on there, except for one small paragraph which is practically small-print compared to all the raging capitals and screaming heads all over the site. Instead, Saw and Stealth appear most obvious, so you do have a point. However, The Swarm was never really marketed as being "intense" and certainly not to the extent of Th13teen's mis-marketing. It's main marketing angles were the "UK's first winged rollercoaster", the "near misses" and in a lesser light, the "gut-wrenching inversions". None of which demonstrates anything that suggests The Swarm is more intense than it actually is. Any expectation of intensity was a result of the GP not thinking there's anything else required for a good coaster except intensity, jarring transitions and IPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I really enjoy The Swarm, but must admit it's not something I necessarily find very thrilling - just a highly enjoyable, smooth ride - although the near misses (and the billboard this year) do give the ride the thrilling/fearful edge it needs... A wooden coaster, unless they get something like El Toro etc. which does look genuinely thrilling (or a RMC hybrid with an inversion or 2 which is what I'd like to see), then we are going to be left with a very fun and slightly thrilling ride which through word of mouth and expectations may not go down well with people who are looking for 'extreme thrills' as that's the line of marketing that thorpe have gone for with their main coasters and thrill rides. I'm personally not too fussed with how scary a ride is, as long as if it is highly enjoyable - that doesn't go down well with Colossus and saw though in my eyes as they are thrilling/scary, but I don't rate them highly for enjoyability! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted June 27, 2013 Report Share Posted June 27, 2013 I think that if Thorpe can go to merlin bosses and say, we've received positive feedback from however many thousand people about a wooden roller coaster then they might just get one. Having seen the plans last year, I was told by the thrills workshop guy that the plans wee pulled as it wasn't as marketable as saw. Now if they do manage to have the steepest drop/highest wooden coaster...they can easily market it. They've had a lot of positive comments and its better than going to merlin bosses and saying "Thorpe park mania want a wooden coaster....oh and a replica of talocan" pluk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenC Posted June 28, 2013 Report Share Posted June 28, 2013 I can't remember where or when it was said (I get a feeling it might be when the ECC had a Swarm ERT last year and got to see the woodie plans that Saw replaced, but probably earlier than that) that market research has told Merlin that the public feel woodies are unsafe / not good enough, and as such are hard to market. I think it's just easier to say 'because the public think woodies are unsafe' though, rather than explaining it like that. http://www.totalthorpepark.co.uk/features/btsthrillsworkshop.shtml - There's a bit about the Thorpe woodie plans shown during the ECC tour, which says about that. Maybe someone who went (Mer, BenC, Valentez all went I think?) can shed a bit more light there? Just to come back to this - IIRC, during the "behind the scenes" tour the Park said they are not averse to installing a wooden coaster, but market research to date suggested that it wouldn't be a popular choice with the public. Marketability was the constraining factor. IMO, it's a case of the "public" not knowing what's good for them...! JoshC., pluk and Sidders 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted July 29, 2013 Report Share Posted July 29, 2013 Coaster wants: 1) Flyer - A thrilling flyer that would compliment the relaxing AIR and would have a pretzel loop. I absolutely loved Manta at SeaWorld Orlando and I think the public would love it. I went with my Sister and her two friends to Orlando, and they loved Manta. Thought it was thrilling but also quite easy-going and not that thrilling, quite smooth they said. 2) Woodie - I think the GP would really benefit from a Wooden Coaster, as it's not a type of coaster that there's a lot of in the UK. I really liked Gwazi at Busch Gardens. 3) Hyper - I would love a air-time machine to compliment the Big Pepsi Max with a hammerhead element, but I am just thinking maybe it will overshadow the other coasters at Thorpe. 4) Maverick rollercoaster - They could make it really long and it would be a guest favourite. 5) Indoors rollercoaster that would build upon SAW's indoor dark section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollerCoater Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 guys I think this roller coaster will be future-themed, because its going to be built in 2015/16 which is very far into the future. by then we will be teleporting everywhere so I think the queline would feature teleporting from one place to another, and maybe the roller coaster will hover above the track instead of being attached to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 guys I think this roller coaster will be future-themed, because its going to be built in 2015/16 which is very far into the future. by then we will be teleporting everywhere so I think the queline would feature teleporting from one place to another, and maybe the roller coaster will hover above the track instead of being attached to it Sponsored by Steve Jobs' ghost. Bubbles1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Just wanted to point something out here- was watching theme park collective the show and found out some news! The new coaster will not be open until 2017- this is due to many reasons including the fact that the height restriction will be raised in 2017- the coaster will have a maximum height of 127ft and will have a maximum of 9 vertical loops Seems like the topic needs a name change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC! Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Don't you mean 164ft, The Swarm is 127ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Don't you mean 164ft, The Swarm is 127ft. Oops sorry I got a bit confused! I'm not sure if this info I have provided is correct as I generally get my info off other websites/vids! Sorry if its wrong! Just what I got off tpc the show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I wouldn't trust everything kids on YouTube say... pluk and Inferno 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_C Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 nine vertical loops sounds a bit like something a 6 year old would make on rollercoaster tycoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted August 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 I thonk they are referring to that suicide coaster that someone 'invented' a few years back. IGNORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 1, 2013 Report Share Posted August 1, 2013 Just wanted to point something out here- was watching theme park collective the show and found out some news! The new coaster will not be open until 2017- this is due to many reasons including the fact that the height restriction will be raised in 2017- the coaster will have a maximum height of 127ft and will have a maximum of 9 vertical loops Seems like the topic needs a name change Whoever you listened to has just regurgitated the MTDP, but very badly if they can still get it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James_C Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 I thonk they are referring to that suicide coaster that someone 'invented' a few years back. IGNORE Suicide coaster...like for real from a legit company or fan boy c**p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altitude Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 It's real! Can't be more painful than Saw though, surely? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 As Altitude says, most of that is regurgitated from the MTDP, and then misinterpreted. The next coaster can have a maximum height of 50m (approx 164ft) and, lifted exactly from the MTDP, "no more than 9 vertical loops", which is indeed a weird way of wording it... The opening date of the next coaster is unknown. However, in the plans submitted for the new Crash Pad, they said it's "unlikely" the new coaster would be built by the end of the current MTDP, ie by 2016. So, it's possible the new coaster won't open until 2017 - at the earliest. Basically, the TPC news is all stuff regurgitated from what's been discussed on the forums, and then skewed slightly. Personally, I haven't always found TPC to always reliable/trustworthy, but that's just me. Sidders and Inferno 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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