Smidget Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Having ridden Logger's without it's tunnel, I can say it really does not change the experience too much. It will NOT ruin EVERYONE'S day by not being there. That notion is absurd. The park have spruced up a load of other areas to improve guest experience. This one little thing is not enough to overshadow everything else the park have done. Honestly, what is worse - the tunnel not being there but the ride being open, or the ride being completely shut? Sidders 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 At what point did anybody suggest it would "ruin everybody's day"? I said it would detract from a guests potential ride experience, which is true. If the Nemesis Inferno tunnel was partially removed in 15 years people could have the same attitude - that not everybody would care, money could be better spent elsewhere, etc - but it would still be significantly damaging to the ride experience. Basically, the tunnel was fun and now it has stopped existing. Common sense says it should be put back up. Ah, but that is in an ideal theme park world, where ride experience and excitement are prioritised before marketability and safety requirements. Reality disappoints again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Just as a quick point, after seeing Ian and Smidget word things in a certain way. I don't think anyone is saying that the removal of part of the tunnel is going to "ruin the day" for anyone; as Smidget said, that is absurd. The concern is that the removal of the tunnel could affect the experience of the ride. The way I'm reading this, everyone is in some form of agreement. Those who have ridden it have said that the experience seem to agree that the removal isn't "good" - given the choice out of the lift and drop being enclosed or not, pretty much everyone would agree that it should be enclosed. However, it isn't too bad, and the experience is still enjoyable. It's just a shame the tunnel has been removed. Those who have yet to ride it fear that the experience will be adversely affected, but don't know how much. To me, I've always felt it was a huge part of the ride, so fear it could spoil the ride to a degree. Until I ride, I won't know - which is the case for everyone. Basically, I think we're all in agreement one way or another, just looking at it in slightly different angles. As I've said repeatedly, I won't pass any judgement until I've ridden, but the fact many seem to feel the experience has hardly changed feels me with hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smidget Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I don't know about everybody else, but I would prefer to have a slightly worse ride experience than not have the ride at all. And as I said above, it really does not affect the ride experience at all... Common sense may say it should be put back up, but budgets say otherwise. If the money was there to do it, I'm sure it would have been done. Obviously it isn't. Marketability and profits are obviously going to be placed slightly higher on the list of priorities - if the park makes no profit, where do they get the money to keep running? Marketing needs to come first so money can be made, and hence ride experiences can be improved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJ Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 safety is the most important factor and in my honest opinion should always remain that way. When it comes to marketability vs experience and enjoyment it becomes considerably more fuzzy. Marketing is what brings guests in to the park, causes them to spend money, giving the park money to invest in new rides and attractions. If the money was there to do it, I'm sure it would have been done. Obviously it isn't. Marketability and profits are obviously going to be placed slightly higher on the list of priorities - if the park makes no profit, where do they get the money to keep running? Marketing needs to come first so money can be made, and hence ride experiences can be improved...Of course everything you are both saying is correct, but guests that visit theme parks don't go from a business perspective. Riding on Loggers Leap is done for their own enjoyment and the tunnel was a "feature" that interacted with the ride to make it more fun. Well that's obvious. From Thorpe Park's perspective, every factor is telling them not to rebuild the tunnel, except the issue of potential guest satisfaction being lost. So, unless they really care about the guest's perspective, they won't rebuild it. As a guest, I feel disappointed by that. If you also think from the creators' perspective, those who designed Logger's Leap, they put that tunnel there entirely for the enjoyment of the rider - it serves no marketing purpose and would not have been so cheap. Yet for over 25 years it contributed, however slightly, to millions of guests' enjoyment. That's what a theme park is all about for me. But I recognise my perspective on theme parks is an ideal, and Thorpe Park will probably never restore the tunnel. Well, at least I have my memories. pluk and Phill Pritchard 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles1 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I wonder if maybe they'd have to replace the entire tunnel if they were to rebuild it, because of health and safety. Could this be plausible? I don't know much, but it seems like something that may happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Its a shame we never got that woodie (where Saw lives now) as not just would we have seen the tunnel restored but (to a degree) improved with the proposals of the train going through a joint tunnel with loggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 It's interesting you raise this point, safety is the most important factor and in my honest opinion should always remain that way. When it comes to marketability vs experience and enjoyment it becomes considerably more fuzzy. Marketing is what brings guests in to the park, causes them to spend money, giving the park money to invest in new rides and attractions. Marketing helps deliver increased profit (and is the single biggest contributor for any business selling a product). With more money parks can afford to improve ride experiences and build better and more exciting rides. It all goes hand-in-hand and it's something Thorpe have got right. Show me how many other regional parks (up to 2m guests per year) that put in a new "world class" roller coaster every 3 years. Agree here completely; especially the huge amount of investment that the park has put in in the past 12-13 years, which must easily total up to £80 million? Hopefully we can also see non-coaster years have better investment; I'd argue that past 3-4 haven't been exactly great, but this year seems to be good. I don't know about everybody else, but I would prefer to have a slightly worse ride experience than not have the ride at all. Common sense may say it should be put back up, but budgets say otherwise. If the money was there to do it, I'm sure it would have been done. Obviously it isn't. Marketability and profits are obviously going to be placed slightly higher on the list of priorities - if the park makes no profit, where do they get the money to keep running? Marketing needs to come first so money can be made, and hence ride experiences can be improved... Again, agree here. Would've liked your post, but I've reached the dreaded "You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day." unfortunately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Honestly, what is worse - the tunnel not being there but the ride being open, or the ride being completely shut? Can we not have a tunnel and a working ride? Or is that just too much? Common sense may say it should be put back up, but budgets say otherwise. If the money was there to do it, I'm sure it would have been done. Obviously it isn't. Marketability and profits are obviously going to be placed slightly higher on the list of priorities - if the park makes no profit, where do they get the money to keep running? Marketing needs to come first so money can be made, and hence ride experiences can be improved... Oh, the dreaded budget and profitability argument again. It's a bit of a leap (pun not intended) to suggest that Loggers getting a new tunnel would make the park un-profitable or plunge the park into an economic spiral that they could never ever escape. And all because they maintained a tunnel and some effects, god darn it. It's just from a riders perspective very odd for the bit that is scary (ie the drop in the tunnel) has gone, whereas the meandering to the second drop retains the tunnel. Marketing helps deliver increased profit (and is the single biggest contributor for any business selling a product). With more money parks can afford to improve ride experiences and build better and more exciting rides. It all goes hand-in-hand and it's something Thorpe have got right Show me how many other regional parks (up to 2m guests per year) that put in a new "world class" roller coaster every 3 years. Of course. Thats true. But how that means a tunnel on Loggers Leap's first drop is out of the question is still just that little bit beyond me. aTOMic and SteveJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thorpe makes millions in profit every year. Millions. I don't buy this whole not-caring-about-experience-merlin-thing otherwise we wouldn't get **** like Swarm, Smiler.. and wouldn't get inferno budgets would we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbles1 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thorpe makes millions in profit every year. Millions. I don't buy this whole not-caring-about-experience-merlin-thing otherwise we wouldn't get **** like Swarm, Smiler.. and wouldn't get inferno budgets would we? I kind of agree with this TBH. although they make some weird choices, can we honestly say that merlin haven't significantly improved the guest experience at their theme parks? and this is obvious in all areas, food, attractions, continued investment in theming, etc. I think there must be a reason for the lack of tunnel, so I guess we should wait and see if anything changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy3112 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Someone on this thread mentioned that the tunnel was run down or something, so maybe they're removing it for this season, and putting a new one over the lift hill next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideAddict Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I seem to be the only person to consider the removal of the roof over this tunnel a good thing. No, if you read back a few pages you'll see I'm 100% for this tunnel removal. Having ridden Logger's without it's tunnel, I can say it really does not change the experience too much. It will NOT ruin EVERYONE'S day by not being there. That notion is absurd. The park have spruced up a load of other areas to improve guest experience. This one little thing is not enough to overshadow everything else the park have done. Honestly, what is worse - the tunnel not being there but the ride being open, or the ride being completely shut? Exactly, it won't ruin everyones day. Let's remember the main part of this ride is the double-drop. And here we are all focusing on some poxy tunnel that is no more. When it was there you went in it and out the other end so quickly, it was past you before you knew it. So if I rode the entire ride and got to the main double-drop I'd be like "where was the tunnel, what was that?" The requirements of building it to a standard safe enough to open to the public and to remain stable from the vibrations of both Loggers itself but from passing Saw trains means it is probably quite a complicated job (maybe someone with building or architect experience can chip in here (RideAddict?)). I have no building or architectural experience. However, I do think your estimation of £25k is well out. If they were to rebuild the tunnel, I can't see it being that much, although I can't put a figure on it. As we can see, the emergency lighting is still there, so I can see it being rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBobJones Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Merlin are just doing what will give them a bigger return for their shareholders, why spend money on a 25 year old ride like loggers, when throwing money at your newest ride and reversing the seats is very marketable and can easily be advertised. But if they keep on with this thinking, loggers and Rumba in a few years will be out of service and removed. For me log flumes, rapids rides are the staple for any theme park, name me one theme park which doesn't have either a log flume or rapids ride... I feel Merlin has their sights set on expansion abroad and where they see the biggest return on investment, anyone else noticed all the price increases all over the place, a £1 here and there adds up to a lot of cash for them, the ORP prices are just too high now digital downloads are £2 extra. I feel the MAP is excellent value for money, but if I had paid £45 to get in, I would be so disappointed I would expect a premium product and I just don't feel Merlin are providing a premium product. Inferno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 We don't know what they have planned, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBobJones Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 I'm sure they have more theming planed for The Swarm and same old same old for the older rides, but that's my negative side coming out there. I would love to see a cash injection and a real park update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma1980 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Loggers leap was pants without the drop in the tunnel. Although I still went on 3 times in a row as no one was queing lol It ruined it a little bit for me, I hope the build a new one RideAddict 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think if they were building a new one they would have done it over closed season as the ride would have to close for probably at least a week to build a new one! Which is a massive shame really, even if the old roof had so many holes in it you were practically outside anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 It looks laughable, and despite what anyone says it does detract from the ride experience. I guess the only reason you'd prefer it like this is if you were scared of the dark. The tunnel that remains makes no sense, does not even get fully dark (the hump of the lift hill and bend at the end are what made it properly dark in the first place). The first drop feels tiny compared to how it did in the dark and looks such a mess with random bits of old framework, wall and ugly lighting remaining. I don't think for a second this is temporary. If they were going to replace it they would have done now, we've known about the removal for long enough to think they would have time to replace it this closed season if they wanted to - it was no last minute thing. I also noticed as our boat returned to the station on Sunday that the structure of the station building itself is in quite a bad way. All the wood on the left has rotted through and looks crap. Are we going to see a gradual removal of the whole thing over the years as bits of it give up? I wouldn't be surprised. ste193 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiteknuckle Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 I hope not, as, in my opinion it is the best log flume ride in the UK. Used to be Nightmare Niagara at American Adventure Thing is though, no ride lasts forever, either due to relocation or old age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RideAddict Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Loggers leap was pants without the drop in the tunnel. Although I still went on 3 times in a row as no one was queing lol It ruined it a little bit for me, I hope the build a new one I'm sure they will build a new one. Watch this space and give them time. I also noticed as our boat returned to the station on Sunday that the structure of the station building itself is in quite a bad way. All the wood on the left has rotted through and looks crap. Are we going to see a gradual removal of the whole thing over the years as bits of it give up? I wouldn't be surprised. Loggers is so old and the ride is falling apart slowly wherever you look. It also looks so old, tired and dated. I kinda feel sorry for it. I hate the water that pisses out from underneath the double drop! The whole ride needs a good overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjh123horry Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm still a bit iff on the drop now its gone. I like the fact your able to see a bit of the rock work inside now, but the ascent is dreadful seems they havent actually made any effort with it.Also is it me or have they moved the bears around a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fish Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm still a bit iff on the drop now its gone. I like the fact your able to see a bit of the rock work inside now, but the ascent is dreadful seems they havent actually made any effort with it. Also is it me or have they moved the bears around a bit? I did think this? but maybe it was because we couldn't see them before with the tunnel there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjh123horry Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 I did think this? but maybe it was because we couldn't see them before with the tunnel there I dont think its coz of that, coz some od the bears dont look like they belong on certain pieces. Like here, the bear was never on this corner. And Ive never seen this bear pushing a tree. There also seemed liie quite a few were removed completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 ^those bears were dotted around the old CCR layout, they have just been moved towards Loggers now, with the rest of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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