Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well if course relevant blocks would be needed. I assumed that didn't need mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The problem with Thorpe is not that it's main coasters don't have high throughout (with the possible exception of saw which gets 950 on a good day) but is rather it needs an increase of higher throughput of supporting rides. Towers (which is far from from perfect) does this better (aside from the larger gaps between rides due to location) which has its primary rides Nemy, Air, Oblivion, Smiler & Thirteen whilst it's secondary rides are Hex, Duel, Rita, Sub-Terra, Congo, Flume, Mine Train and Spinball. Most of these secondary rides receive good/decent throughput for thei positions (bar Spinball). I think once thorpe get the dark ride (snd it has a decent throughput), there will be a slightly reduced problem of throughputs hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 But 1000 is still low for a major park. They should be in the 1200+ region while the flats should be over 600pph. Coaster length does benefit a coaster and makes it easier to achieve high throughputs. It's not a direct correlation but it does help. Have you been to Legoland? Part of the issue is everything is in a close proximity, it's all man-made, whereas Towers were lucky enough to have their grounds already provided. Difference being it takes a while to get to each land/attraction, especially when they're spread out over the colossal area. Thorpe is flawed that you can turn one corner and you're in a completely different area. But this is because they didn't have the space in the first place. I definitely don't think the major coasters throughput are the big issue here, especially when they all do considerably well. pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Most of Thorpe's problems are not to do with the throughput that the ride can achieve, but more-so the throughput they do achieve due to one train operation/inefficient two train operation, as well as the mass Fastrack overselling which severely slows down the main queue. It's the same old arguments I know, but the fact is that if they run coasters on minimum capacity then throughputs aren't going to be good. alexander and HermanTheGerman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S217 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 RnR will work fantastic if they scrap standard queue and Only have RNR and Fast Track Kerfuffle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Well if course relevant blocks would be needed. I assumed that didn't need mentioning. It's very relevant though, isn't it. You couldn't simply add a bit of extra track and a block into the middle of the ride with any sort of similar layout or with destroying the flow, having a mid course block requires a hefty stretch of reduced pace so the brake can be safely used. You are looking at it a bit over-simplistically. I think its quite clear that R&R in its current form is not ready for any sort of major promotion or proclamation of queue-less theme park, so I can't see it being used as the 'new for 2015' promotion. I hope it never is in its current form, but that's for another discussion. I'm not expecting anything of any note next year, they only had a few months trading off of Angry Birds so that promo will continue. I wonder if that is actually the new pattern; one new addition at the start of the season, than something half way through the following one, then something at the start of the season after next. Get a season and a half out of each investment that way. RnR will work fantastic if they scrap standard queue and Only have RNR and Fast Track Kerfuffle, Benin, MachoMachine and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Sorry for assuming that me saying add length didn't instantly imply add blocks as well. Also RnR can never work "fantastically" regardless of what is done. Remove the standard queue then where does everyone go. It just results in moving queues and can end up limiting the number of goes on a coaster as the wait for those is doubled. It forces your day to be an equal split between coasters and flats.People do go just to get on coasters but with rnr they cant. It's not just enthusiasts either, many people I know go just for coasters and flat rides are just there if there is time left over and they are bored of the coasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pognoi Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's not just enthusiasts either, many people I know go just for coasters and flat rides This is genius. See, I go to Thorpe park for the sunken gardens. J.S217, Altitude and kinnaird 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Oh I forgot that I typed that. A fire alarm. Disturbed me and I just left it so it appears to be it sent it. I'll edit it because clearly that is just a stupid sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 RnR will work fantastic if they scrap standard queue and Only have RNR and Fast TrackIn theory yes... But in thorpe's situation at this current moment in time, no.I can see this working in 5-10years time but no sooner. As people have stated, the side attractions need to be high throughout. The current 500pph per hour flat rides are not enough, they need high throughput flat rides and shows which eat 2000-3000pph or even more(related to shows here). In the current situation, RNR is just shifting queues and making the queues for side attractions longer. Shifting 10,000 people on a busy day who would be queueing in a coaster queueline is not a stable flow of guests for side attractions. The major flat rides will get at least 60mins+ of what they would have been without RNR in action. If thorpe invest high throughput for the next few years, I could well see RNR being a guest pull-in when Paramount park comes into rivalry. Considering Paramount park is over 5 years away, and thorpe's flat rides are coming to their end sooner or later, I can see thorpe replacing them with significant high throughput rides in the next few years. I reckon the system could be a real crowd puller WHEN thorpe get enough high throughput rides to back up their coasters, fully implementing it this year is only going to shift queues, not reduce them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The system will always just shift queues that's how it works. Saying that more side attractions will improve the way it works is a complete lie. It just moves the queue to a different place but they are more spread out. It always just moves queues as it cant do anything else. Lets say RnR was only on 1 coaster. Its just relocates the queue to a new location but to so many locations it doesn't seem noticeable. However now everyone is in the virtual wait for that 1 coaster. Some people would have avoided it in the past because they were not willing to wait but with RnR everyone waits virtually as it seems like it doesn't effect them. When in reality it does effect them as that coaster is now dealing with people it didn't have to before. Making the virtual wait longer in proportion to what it would have otherwise been. So there are now more people counting as 2 people so the other rides queues increase. Its coming to the point where I'm going to go away set up the differential equations and statistics and prove to you lot that this system will never reduce your time queuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 The system isn't about reducing your queueing time. It's about getting you out of a physical queue. Let's look at it how it's supposed to work. The park opens at 9:30, everyone goes to the ride they want to go on. I get to Stealth's entrance and join RnR which is ride right now, brilliant! Walk on like it is first thing (apart from the 20 seconds it took me to click on Stealth and Let Me on Now). Now I move to my next ride. Nemesis Inferno, ride right now because everyone has gone to Swarm first. Ah brilliant!!! After my meh ride on Inferno I head to Colossus and see a 10 minute RnR wait as the park is filling up. Oh no!!! I join the 10 minute queue, let's have a sneaky go on Rocky Express. After my okay ride on Colossus I see Saw has a 30 minute RnR queue (everyone is still heading to Swarm and joining that RnR queue making them redundant to join another RnR queue and Saw is around 30 minutes normally at this point in the day I'm having so it's not affected anything). Join my 30 minute RnR queue for Saw and have a sneaky go on Samurai or Loggers as the park is still slowly filling up. No standby queues for the coasters so their RnR queues are respectively good. Okay, so I've had my horrid ride on Saw and feel like raving it up on X. Swarm has a 90 minute RnR queue (normal queue time at this time of day) so X has a 45 minute queue (it's usually 5 minutes at this point still so I've more than doubled it to keep you happy.) So in that 90 minutes of "waiting" for Swarm I'm going to ride X and heck Fish has a 30 minute queue so why not! Hurrah! Go ride Swarm after the 90 minutes and yay all coasters done! But I want to go on Stealth again, darn it 90 minute RnR queue... oh but wait I don't have to stand in it! Sign in, thank you. Now 90 minutes... hmm Rush is 60 minutes but as I'm also queueing for Stealth I'm basically getting on 2 rides in the 90 minutes instead of the usual one. YAY MORE RIDES!!!! After my ride on Stealth I'm hungry, heck let's eat lunch but also queue for a ride on RNR that way I can eat in an actually eatery and queue at the same time! ZOMG! No time wasted in food there, and I've had a cheeky go on Rumba Rapids. Now it's 2pm. I've been on all the coasters and a few fillers. Not bad for a busy day! So respective queue times (for a AVERAGE Saturday of about 10000 guests): coasters on RnR ranging between 80-100 minutes. Flats will be up to 60 minutes and so on. But the coaster queues often get up to those numbers anyway... 5 coasters all of 1000 throughput (on average). 10000 guests, not all tall enough, not all wanting to go on the coasters (yeah it happens). Yes people are dispersed elsewhere. No one is saying that won't happen. If you've got a 90 minute reservation for Swarm, you won't join a 2 hour queue for vortex (won't happen anyway) because you CAN'T. People will be having lunch, in the summer they can chill on the beach. RnR doesn't even remove everyone from the coaster queues, there will still be a 10 minuteish time with people on the coasters. Lets go with the "flat ride queues will double" (well they won't because they just won't). Normal peak day. Coasters: 70-90 minutes with flats usually around 40 minutes. Double the flat queue times for arguments sake to 80 minutes, RnR coaster queues at 100 minutes. I'm still in that 100 minutes riding a coaster and a flat ride which previously would have taken me around 120 minutes. Bit of time saved!!!!! When the system is working as it's meant to it will work. I have been there when it works. If Thorpe hadn't bottled it and given in by providing a standby queue then we'd have had a better understanding of the system (ignore FN that was a mess just go by the coaster trials as that's what they're pushing this year). People who use RnR love it, people who don't use it moan. That is the GENERAL consensus. I've seen people moan on one trial that the Inferno queue was 60 minutes standby or ride right now on RnR. Why not just get your phone out in that queue and go straight on! If you were in the standby queue then silly you, there were enough signs, people at the entrance even telling people before joining the queue. Give it time, let the problems be ironed out, it CAN work for the purpose of getting people out of the coaster queues and having time to chill, have lunch, whatever. J.S217 and AJ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 This is what happens when it's over a year till the next new ride pognoi, Kerfuffle, HermanTheGerman and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 ^ Not everyone takes their phone to a theme park. kinnaird 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 ^ Not everyone takes their phone to a theme park. Really? Maybe it's just me, but I always have my phone with me (unless I'm going to uni for an official exam). It's a common thing, since a phone can be used to contact people, check travel information, etc etc. Going for a day out means those things are essential to me just in case something happens. Altitude and Matt 236 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Really? Maybe it's just me, but I always have my phone with me (unless I'm going to uni for an official exam). It's a common thing, since a phone can be used to contact people, check travel information, etc etc. Going for a day out means those things are essential to me just in case something happens. Yes really, not everyone takes a phone with them, in fact some people don't have a phone. Furthermore, some people may have a phone that isn't a smart phone, so that can't be used either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yes really, not everyone takes a phone with them, in fact some people don't have a phone. Furthermore, some people may have a phone that isn't a smart phone, so that can't be used either. Even my Gran has a smart phone.. literally. But thankfully they thought of that with the ticketed system! JoshC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pognoi Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Personally I have only taken a phone to thorpe park once, if that helps prove a point? Anyone who has been on a meet there can confirm this. (iPods don't count right?) kinnaird 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Anyone who has been on a meet there can confirm this. (iPods don't count right?) In fairness, it can connect to the internet, so can be used for RnR. But yeah, as Marc says, they've got the paper system as well, so it's alright I guess. I still think that 99% of people who go to Thorpe will be in a group where someone has a smart device that can connect to the internet. So the whole argument about not having smart phones / not taking phones doesn't really seem to hold much worth in my eyes! pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJames Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 They scrapped the paper ticket system at Fright Nights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 They scrapped the paper ticket system at Fright Nights... I think if it was to be used long term on more than a trial basis it would certainly link up with a paper system. TPJames 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 But you need 1 phone per 6 people. That will cover 98% of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 But you need 1 phone per 6 people. That will cover 98% of people. You make 98% sound like a bad thing...? I think 98% is rather acceptable as a percentage of users to non-users. pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 No I More meant it that the argument of not everyone has one seems a little invalid. Also scarycoasterboy you have just made those figures up. Where as my statements are based of therotical scenarios and then used maths to get the following figures. Making up numbers to prove a point succeeds in nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 But they have the non-smartphone option which makes YOUR argument invalid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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