Merlin Entertainments

[MattyMoo]

The MAP group are kicking off big time about the price hike, but let's be honest here - the passes have been too cheap for too long. MAPpers typically won't use F&B on park, where Merlin make that precious and needed revenue and margin. 

[GetEchoes]

4 minutes ago, MattyMoo said:

The MAP group are kicking off big time about the price hike, but let's be honest here - the passes have been too cheap for too long. MAPpers typically won't use F&B on park, where Merlin make that precious and needed revenue and margin. 

MAP people confuse me. I can understand as a business you need to make a product viable. People use terms like money hungry and greedy - does anyone really know how much it costs to run a theme park? 

 

Also, I think MAP has been a thing for so long people never look at just booking day tickets. A comment on the group was something like "that's a 60% increase and we would have to go 3 times every months to towers as we live up north"  surely use your common sense and think a pre-book day ticket works better for you then! 

 

You don't NEED a pass to visit a park, if it's too expensive, just buy day tickets - with COVID they had better availability than passholder anyway! 

 

Entertaining to watch all the comments though..... that's my Monday entertainment sorted! 

[MattyMoo]

Is it too much of a sweeping statement to say that MAP users are the main users - and also abusers - of the RAP?  Anyway, I've said it either way 

[Martin Doyle]

2 hours ago, Coaster said:

Of course, it's different if you still enjoy Merlin's offering, but those who don't, why pay more for a MAP when there are so many other options?

 

This is EXACTLY what gets on my last nerve.

 

So many people hark on about them in a negative way endlessly...yet still pump money into them.

 

May I ask what exactly that achieves?? Do people really think the higher ups give a hoot about a couple of complaints from people who are STILL giving them their money??. They are a business so naturally money and profit comes first.

 

The reason I chucked my pass in was because I genuinely am tired of this company and how they have ran Thorpe virtually past the point of no return and am fed up of the absolute cash grabbing we are seeing with upcharging left right and centre, the multi pass tiers and not being able to walk 10 feet in their attractions without someone trying to shove products down your throat as if you are in the Marrakech Medina.

 

The other reason I gave up is because the ONLY way you get change out of a company is to hit them where it hurts and that is the pocket. Yes little old Martin not renewing his pass is not going to achieve much, but if others who like myself who apparently have had enough had that train of thought as opposed to bitching and moaning about stuff whilst pouring money into their bank account, MAYBE a change of sorts could happen.

 

Gets on my absolute nerves.

[JoshuaA]

1 hour ago, Coaster said:

Why not support the parks and businesses that really need it, and visit somewhere different next year?  I can't see the logic behind giving Merlin another £200+ for the same old stuff every year?

Of course, it's different if you still enjoy Merlin's offering, but those who don't, why pay more for a MAP when there are so many other options?

Okay so for people in the midlands/the north of the country, yes there is a fair amount of other options. Lightwater Valley, Flamingo, BPB, and a couple more. But down here in the south east its kind of the only option for parks. The only park down here is Paultons, which is nearly two hours away from me, and a 3 hour train journey. Paultons is a great park, but not quite something that I could go to year round for thrills as great as it looks. Thorpe Park, Chessie, and Legoland are my nearest parks. Besides Paultons the only other option I really have is Brighton Pier for a spinning mouse and a Pinfari looper.

 

Merlin around the London and surrounding areas kind of own the monopoly on theme parks. I would totally visit BPB more if it wasn't 4 and a half hours away. And the only merlin park I actually like is 4

hours away (Alton). If there was a big non Merlin park that had some great coasters I would totally ditch Merlin, but sadly if you want good coasters Thorpe is really the only option for people here.. 

 

I don't think Merlin are all bad as well, Six Flags do a lot of things WAY worse. But its not quite as well ran as a Cedar Fair park. If Thorpe wasn't such a mess I would have a better outlook on the chain, Chessie and Alton are both respectable IMO. Even if a little rough around the edges.

These passes are kind of bad, I do think the park should compensate for charging more for less. Even if its just 30 minutes exclusive rides on one ride. I also think for people like me, what are my options? Paultons is a good two hours away from me, there isn't a huge amount of options. Unless I wanna fly, which is hard at the moment. So yeah..

 

 

[Coaster]

2 hours ago, JoshuaA said:

Okay so for people in the midlands/the north of the country, yes there is a fair amount of other options. Lightwater Valley, Flamingo, BPB, and a couple more. But down here in the south east its kind of the only option for parks. The only park down here is Paultons, which is nearly two hours away from me, and a 3 hour train journey. Paultons is a great park, but not quite something that I could go to year round for thrills as great as it looks. Thorpe Park, Chessie, and Legoland are my nearest parks. Besides Paultons the only other option I really have is Brighton Pier for a spinning mouse and a Pinfari looper.

 

Merlin around the London and surrounding areas kind of own the monopoly on theme parks. I would totally visit BPB more if it wasn't 4 and a half hours away. And the only merlin park I actually like is 4

hours away (Alton). If there was a big non Merlin park that had some great coasters I would totally ditch Merlin, but sadly if you want good coasters Thorpe is really the only option for people here.. 

 

I don't think Merlin are all bad as well, Six Flags do a lot of things WAY worse. But its not quite as well ran as a Cedar Fair park. If Thorpe wasn't such a mess I would have a better outlook on the chain, Chessie and Alton are both respectable IMO. Even if a little rough around the edges.

These passes are kind of bad, I do think the park should compensate for charging more for less. Even if its just 30 minutes exclusive rides on one ride. I also think for people like me, what are my options? Paultons is a good two hours away from me, there isn't a huge amount of options. Unless I wanna fly, which is hard at the moment. So yeah..

 

I understand the location thing, Thorpe Park and Chessington are the easiest parks for me to get to, but I'd much rather drive further and visit different non-Merlin parks because I find the whole experience much more enjoyable and rewarding.

[JoshuaA]

4 minutes ago, Coaster said:

 

I understand the location thing, Thorpe Park and Chessington are the easiest parks for me to get to, but I'd much rather drive further and visit different non-Merlin parks because I find the whole experience much more enjoyable and rewarding.

This is fair, though I understand why people would be critical and still visit the Merlin Parks. If you're not in the north, then basically its Merlin or drive to the other side of the country lol. I also don't get too much of the hate anyway, Merlin have their faults, some big downfalls, though they are not the worst thing in the world. They sure do have an annoying obsession with worlds firsts, Thorpe Park is pretty neglected, but they do treat Chessie and Alton pretty well, and their Legoland properties are usually well kept and well invested in.

 

There is many parks ran worse, look at Six Flags parks. Portaventura, I feel like people are overly harsh sometimes. Including myself. Merlin do a lot of things right. Though it would be nice to have some independent parks down here.

[Coaster]

1 hour ago, JoshuaA said:

This is fair, though I understand why people would be critical and still visit the Merlin Parks. If you're not in the north, then basically its Merlin or drive to the other side of the country lol. I also don't get too much of the hate anyway, Merlin have their faults, some big downfalls, though they are not the worst thing in the world. They sure do have an annoying obsession with worlds firsts, Thorpe Park is pretty neglected, but they do treat Chessie and Alton pretty well, and their Legoland properties are usually well kept and well invested in.

 

There is many parks ran worse, look at Six Flags parks. Portaventura, I feel like people are overly harsh sometimes. Including myself. Merlin do a lot of things right. Though it would be nice to have some independent parks down here.

 

Yeah I can see why people still get a pass, but it's frustrating to see those who are angry about the price increase still pay money to Merlin instead of supporting independent parks.  (I do include myself in this, I used to own a MAP but this year was the first year in a while without a Merlin pass for me and I haven't missed it).

 

In relation to the standard of the parks, I really don't get much enjoyment visiting them anymore; Chessington's Howl'o'ween was a good effort this year, but Alton Towers felt pretty flat and tired on my visit.  Thorpe, the less said the better, I didn't visit this year.

[Glitch]

Yes prices went up but themed experiences and attractions don't come cheap? Hopefully this will push more money into the pipelines and release extra Capex from Merlin for the attractions.

 

I think most people have misunderstood how much value the Annual pass used to bring at the very low pricepoints when an AP for just one of the other non Merlin parks was within £30 of sale price.

At the new prices I still think that value is there, when say if the Swarm for example was the only ride in the location of TP and they charged £10-£20 as a oneshot, like the rollercoaster on the Vegas strip for example, I would still pay for it, even if it was a one and done attraction. Remember attractions arn't cheap too, Wickerman 16 million, Swarm 18 million, yet there letting me have unlimited rides on millions of pounds of hardware and creative knowledge for the cost of around 4 day trips at £60 each.

 

For example I like the idea of going to Thorpe or Chessington to see the new attractions and events, when they come maybe 4 times a year, and then still being able to go to London for a daytrip and get into the 'tourist traps' without having to pay any extra is just great value still in my opinion.

 

If were looking at the price monthly, when released of the pass at around THE £20 -£30 mark well thats still cheaper than my gym membership and something I would be willing to pay.  

 

Perhaps this may be a good move for getting more people to go on day trips rather than be passholders however that may hurt midway, my hope being that the parks are able to generate more income to get the love and attention they deserve.

 

 

Lets also be honest the MAP group are never going to be happy. Most of the issues they generate themselves, take RAP for instance, without the MAP group awareness of that product offering and how to get in even cheaper with a carer pass wouldn't of created the demand we see today. Note cattle pen queue lines for RAP registration. 

 

I hope TBH that Merlin go further and ban outside food and those Titan bags from being allowed into the park. Instead have a picnic spot outside the gates by the carpark. 

 

I will probably end up signing up for the monthly pass when it becomes available as I enjoy visiting the parks and still think that any cost sub £300 yearly is worthwhile for me and I am sure that we will see trade deals and sales reducing the prices further.

[Matt 236]

The changes are a mixed bag and perhaps not surprising or expected, especially given the substantial increases.

 

On one note it now costs significantly more for the same product, unless one goes for the basic pass. However it could be argued that despite it’s numerous flaws, the MAP in it’s original form offered cheap and remarkable value. 
 

The intention may well to reduce the number of pass holders whilst making more money for the company. Whether we see more of this towards investments at existing attractions, remains to be seen. 
 

 

[Martin Doyle]

*looks over at America and see the Busch/seaworld parks has an 11 park pass with no exclusions, free parking, one free quick queue pass a day and multiple tickets for other guests cheaper than the Platinum MAP

 

Lets see now in regards to new attractions between last year to this year now.

 

Busch/Seaworld - Iron Gwazi,Pantheon,Texas Stingray, Ice breaker, Emperor.

 

Merlin - Gangster Granny, Croc Drop, Black Mirror.

 

Yeah the UK deffo got the better end of the deal lads!!  

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Martin Doyle said:

*looks over at America and see the Busch/seaworld parks has an 11 park pass with no exclusions, free parking, one free quick queue pass a day and multiple tickets for other guests cheaper than the Platinum MAP

 

Lets see now in regards to new attractions between last year to this year now.

 

Busch/Seaworld - Iron Gwazi,Pantheon,Texas Stingray, Ice breaker, Emperor.

 

Merlin - Gangster Granny, Croc Drop, Black Mirror.

 

Yeah the UK deffo got the better end of the deal lads!!  

The parks you compare them with are huge tourist traps attracting millions of guests from around the world each year, sat conveniently close to some of the most popular theme parks in the world, that’s where their big bucks will be made rather than how it is here in the uk where the Merlin parks are catered for a very different type of visitor.

 

For the passes I think it’s been a long time coming, of course I don’t want to pay more for a pass but even at the new price points it still offers great value for money for how much I use the pass each year.

 

Merlin sort of created an issue for them selves in my opinion by making passes so cheap for so long, don’t get me wrong I know Merlin have their problems and are far from perfect, but even throughout their worse years we’ve still seen continued and frequent investments in the Merlin parks (although maybe not Thorpe!)

 

There’s no denying Merlin have a monopoly, whilst the smaller independent parks are constantly and maybe not far from giving Merlin a run for their money (I’m mainly thinking paultons here).
 

But what people are saying is right, if you don’t feel you get value from it then it’s not for you, but that’s like everything in life too!

[Mark9]

MaP owners are hilarious. They seem to think loyalty is owning an annual pass. The reality is the 'sell em cheap, pack em in;' worked pre covid but with this year, that philosophy backfired.

[JoshuaA]

13 hours ago, Martin Doyle said:

*looks over at America and see the Busch/seaworld parks has an 11 park pass with no exclusions, free parking, one free quick queue pass a day and multiple tickets for other guests cheaper than the Platinum MAP

 

Lets see now in regards to new attractions between last year to this year now.

 

Busch/Seaworld - Iron Gwazi,Pantheon,Texas Stingray, Ice breaker, Emperor.

 

Merlin - Gangster Granny, Croc Drop, Black Mirror.

 

Yeah the UK deffo got the better end of the deal lads!!  

Seaworld/Busch are their own mess. The reason the prices are so cheap and they have so many additions is that the company are frantically trying to change their image and the point of their parks post Blackfish. The current additions they are doing is unsustainable, RMC and B&M both demanded payments earlier this year. They are a company that are adding these coasters as a last ditch effort, the prices reflect that. I have heard the parks aren't performing as well as they should be, so Seaworld/Busch are the last company Merlin should aspire to be. They have good parks, but business wise they are a mess. 

 

[MattyMoo]

10 hours ago, Mark9 said:

MaP owners are hilarious. They seem to think loyalty is owning an annual pass. The reality is the 'sell em cheap, pack em in;' worked pre covid but with this year, that philosophy backfired.

 

Nailed it. Expect to see more events that encourage you to buy food and drink and add-ons such as Oktoberfest and paid-for mazes at Thorpe, I reckon - which I don't mind, personally. Oktoberfest at Alton Towers was an absolute breath of fresh air this year, thoroughly impressed.

[Glitch]

20 hours ago, Martin Doyle said:

*looks over at America and see the Busch/seaworld parks has an 11 park pass with no exclusions, free parking, one free quick queue pass a day and multiple tickets for other guests cheaper than the Platinum MAP

 

Lets see now in regards to new attractions between last year to this year now.

 

Busch/Seaworld - Iron Gwazi,Pantheon,Texas Stingray, Ice breaker, Emperor.

 

Merlin - Gangster Granny, Croc Drop, Black Mirror.

 

Yeah the UK deffo got the better end of the deal lads!!  

 

#FAKE NEWS

[Martin Doyle]

2 hours ago, Glitch said:

 

#FAKE NEWS

 

 

Oopsy. Forgot the old taxes!! 🤣🤣

[Benin]

It's fairly close in line with DLPs pass now. Particularly in price.

 

Between MAP and BOGOFs being the main way of getting bodies in the gate and finding out it's no good for the long term of the parks it's no surprise they've finally caught on.

 

Just buy a Plopsa pass and do a mini tour of Europe. Tasty tasty discounted entry rates. Though that'll be ruined by other things unfortunately.

 

In terms of supporting UK parks, I'd have gone to LWV but they closed Ultimate. Truly cutting off nose to spite their face. 

[JoshC.]

I still maintain that the new prices represent good value for money if you take advantage of everything it offers. I think one issue is that people primarily buy the Merlin Annual Pass to visit the parks, and see the midways as "freebies" / bonuses, that they'll only visit because they get them for free, not using the pass to visit them because they were going to anyway. So then people see the high price and think it's very high because of how they view it.

 

But ultimately, they have always been too cheap considering the large numbers of people who buy them. They've been in need of having to balance things up. The trouble is, if and when they did that, it was never going to go down well because people would see a price increase and no perk increase. 

 

My main issue with the new Gold and Platinum passes is I don't see why anyone would ever really want to pay extra for the Platinum Pass? The bonuses you get are:

-You can visit the park on bank holiday weekends

-You get three more £5 Fastrack vouchers

-You get three Share the Fun vouchers (meaning 3 friends get to visit a park for £15, rather than the £30-ish online price)

-You can pre-book three more days per attraction

 

I don't see how those perks are worth £80 extra (after the sale)? I don't even see how they're worth £40 extra right now? 

 

Maybe the Platinum Pass will have more special event perks or something, but I just don't see it. 

 

So yeah, Gold is really good. Platinum, if it existed by itself would be good but expensive, but really seems pointless to me?

[pluk]

This is an excellent move. Sell fewer for more money, make the same money. Now for the same move with fastrack please...

[JoshC.]

All types of Annual Passholders can now prebook tickets to the parks: https://www.merlinannualpass.co.uk/pass-prebooks/

 

The system is a little clunky, and there's currently waits for some parks (Chessington and Legoland specifically), but it seems to be going vaguely smoothly now that it's live..

[JoshC.]

Tucked within the consultation plans for Chessington's new land showing attendance of the 4 UK Merlin parks:

 

 

Unlike with the TEA attendance, I believe these represent accurate numbers (the TEA reported figures are usually fudged to some degree).

 

Each vertical line represents a million visitors. There's a couple of mistakes with the investment timelines, particularly with Thorpe, but it gives a very interesting insight into the state of the Merlin parks.

 

Hard to know whether the 2020 numbers are end of year figures.

[pluk]

So Thorpe suffered the indignity of falling below Chessington for the first time in a long time just before the pandemic hit. Shocking really considering the state Chessingron is in.

[Inferno]

That's really, really interesting.

 

Quite surprising to see that all 4 parks were all only up about a million(ish) visitors p/a in 2019 compared to their opening years. That's mad.

 

Nearly all of the last 7 Thorpe "investments" are hilariously bad when you compare them to the last 7 of all the other parks.

It's quite telling that they consider some of those to be "investments" when compared to the others. Bouncezilla is listed as an 'investment' for example, while no mention of the other inflatables & small things elsewhere 🙄

[Coaster]

Merlin are objecting to the London Resort planning application;

 

https://escapismproject.co.uk/news/1623419409?s=04&fbclid=IwAR10_0Tg26gWSoUVxXpB3cw7_nU2mQ7g0jdJK-ou_zD7Za4MVoncCuUaxsE

 

My thoughts on this?

 

Merlin need to do one.  They have strangled the life out of the UK theme park industry for years; they own the monopoly yet have such low standards in their parks, with no real drive to improve anything.

 

The Merlin short-term model of "slap an IP on it" whilst neglecting rides and basic infrastructure has killed the offering at their parks and, if the London Resort was to happen, it would most likely come back to bite them. My view is that they feel threatened by the prospect of a company coming in and doing a really good job with a park, as it would shift the public perception of Merlin being "the expected standard" in the UK.

 

Merlin are a company that call themselves second only to Disney, yet copy-paste ideas across the world, copy Paultons with Peppa Pig world (albeit not in the UK, as they can't) and they can't even invest satisfactorily in their major parks in the UK. Thorpe hasn't seen solid investment since 2012 despite supposedly being the UK's "thrill capital".  London Resort would challenge Merlin, which they clearly don't want.

 

In my opinion, London Resort is exactly what the UK industry needs for it to thrive, some healthy competition which would force Merlin to act. Look at America, there's a rivalry between Cedar Fair and Six Flags, or the European parks which are all owned by different companies. It's much healthier and means that parks have to be at the top of their game to stay in competition.

 

The fact that Merlin are making a fuss over this this says everything about them as a company, second rate and not willing to adjust and improve their offering to compete.