Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Don't get me wrong, I do understand the concerns people have with Wicker Man. The layout isn't brilliant, I'll admit that, although, correct me if I'm wrong, John Wardley had previously said that he was relatively happy with the layout, but again, correct me if I'm wrong! And obviously, just because he has said something, it dosen't meant that there is truth in it. Also, this is another restriction, the space that the Flume occupied also comprised of land classed as gardens, which meant when the Flume was removed, the Resort wasn't allowed to build on the full Flume site, so the space available was more restricted than you think, especially for a wooden coaster. The special effects are also to be given to to different department than than the usual to look after and maintain, and I'm fairly certain that they will last. I completely understand why people are skeptical, after all, Merlin really don't have a good track record in this area, but I'm staying optimistic. Comparing Wicker Man and Icon, I really don't want to go there — they are both targeting very different audiences (Wicker Man targeted towards families and Icon to thrill seekers), and in response will provide very different experiences. Theme isn't important at an amusement park, and thus Icon will not have any major theming, whereas theming obviously plays an important part at a theme park... what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't really judge Wicker Man by the layout only, as that's not taking the whole experience into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Wardley changed the entire profile of the first drop and would've changed more if he could (TT Q&A) Why aren't we allowed to be constructively critical of this? I believe they couldn't have build down into the woodland where half of flume was, which is a real shame... But given that this was a very last minute ride choice due to Smiler creating all the problems in the world, what else do we expect? Problem now there's seem to be some sudden hype because a few people who've ridden it are unsurprisingly being overwhelmingly positive over it... Which has always happened... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Mega-Lite said: Don't be so over the top... Members pointing out that perhaps those photos were doctored and/or taken in situations you may never see in the park, isn't even slightly comparable to that rubbish. But when some are going to the level of rolling their eyes at the 'first woodie in 20+ years' or saying it's not true because one was rebuilt, it is that level. It's a clear, legitimate fact which will capture people's attention. Why shouldn't they use that, regardless of how it looks? I get why people have concerns, and I share a few of them myself. My biggest one still remains about are we getting another Th13teen, in that people will expect too much and be disappointed. Because if they are, it'll bring success for one year, then leave a lull for a year or two where people don't bother with the park, which is the last thing Towers or Merlin want. Who knows, but we'll see. As Robert.W said, it's been mentioned on other forums that the effects are planned to be looked after by the same team who build and maintain the Scarefest attractions. Assuming they've got enough resources, this means there's a better chance they'll be operational more often, and takes the pressure off the engineers (who would normally do it). 51 minutes ago, Benin said: Problem now there's seem to be some sudden hype because a few people who've ridden it are unsurprisingly being overwhelmingly positive over it... Which has always happened... Fortunately that hype hasn't spilled over here as much. But it's crazy how people hear one person (who's probably staff at the park anyway) say 'it's got more airtime than Wodan' or 'it's the best thing since sliced bread', believe them and then set expectations higher than the moon... yeah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuntman707 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I would have been more forgiving of SW8 if it was designed to fit in more with Mutiny Bay and marketed as a family coaster rather than a strange film based horror/thrill ride. My fear is that false expectations are being built around this ride. If you ride it with the expectations of a family coaster, you may find it pleasantly surprising. If you ride it with the expectations they are pushing with intricate smoke and lighting missing from the adverts, you will only feel disappointment if it is also slow with a janky layout to get the track though that element so many times. JoshuaA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Believe it or not there are actually attractions out there which greatly enhance a ride experience purely on theming and effects alone. Disney aside, rides such as The Flying Dutchman (Efteling) and Anubis are examples that high quality items (aside from ride hardware and layout) can still offer a great experience. Whether Wickerman is one of these remains to be seen. As for the ‘first woodie in 21 years’ one could argue Scenic is basically a brand new woodie (given how it was completely rebuilt). However it must be remembered that it was listed (just before that tragic fire) and had to be built virtually identical to the original. Also Woodies need structure material replaced on fairly regular basis too. The Wood on Blackpool’ woodies now certainly isn’t from the 1930’s/1940’s. I believe they did originally consider building it around the cross valley site but chose the Flume due to the ride reaching the end of it’s life. Unfortunately a noticeable chunk where the Flume resided was part of the Gardens and had to be restored. Whilst Wardley did reprofile one or two areas (very slightly) one has to remember he took on more a consultant role in Thirteen and Smiler (as opposed to to Nemesis and Oblivion). The new trains look neat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 9 hours ago, Benin said: Wardley changed the entire profile of the first drop and would've changed more if he could (TT Q&A) Why aren't we allowed to be constructively critical of this? Indeed, though I am sure he has said somewhere that with the coasters overall layout, for the space they had available, he was pretty happy with it. I have no problem at all with anyone sharing their concerns about the ride, but anyone who sits and blatantly slags it off because "it's not very high" or because "it's got too many tunnels" or because "the layout looks rubbish" or because "they just won't bother maintaining the effects" or because "the marketing is bad" or because "John Wardley didn't like it" etc... that sort of moaning and complaining isn't constructive. At the end of the day, it's only a few more weeks till the ride actually opens. Only time will tell what we can really expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think people aren't offering constructive criticism because the layout looks so lackluster and people are so fed up with Merlin's usual nonsense that they just don't care. Meanwhile you have the fanboys raving over the ride claiming it's the best ride to ever be made and swearing blindly that the effects and theme will be stunning when history tells us that is unlikely. It might be a very good ride with a theme that works amazingly well with the ride but I'll believe it when I experience it myself. Although that won't be anytime soon as if I'm traveling north I'll be going to Blackpool. Stuntman707, Marhelorpe and JoshuaA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 These images have been posted on TowersTimes Facebook of the rides entrance area. It's looking pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I actually really like the aesthetic of Wicker Man going by those photos, fits in with the nature of the coaster perfectly and looks well finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 Indeed, the quality of the theming is absolutely brilliant! The theming has been done by Universal Rocks, the same people who did Taron, which won't have been cheap, just shows that they are at least trying. Even if the coaster itself isn't anything special, at least we have got some quality theming. Marc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega-Lite Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 22 hours ago, Robert.W said: I completely agree that Alton getting the UK's first wooden coaster in over 20 years is definitely something to brag about... I'm slightly confused as to why many people here are being so negative about it to be honest. I guess some people just like to pick faults, as illustrated perfectly by BaronC. Also, it's okay to say that it's only "a 40 foot one that's mostly tunnels" because fair enough, that's not exactly an impressive coaster on the face of it, but you'd be completely disregarding the fact that a ride much taller is not possible with the planning conditions that Alton has to abide by. As for the ride being mostly tunnels... that's not really true, but they do have a purpose, which is minimising the noise of the ride... or Alton will just get taken to court again by disgruntled locals. What I'm saying is, you're moaning about stuff that is beyond the control of the Resort. They can't change the height or noise limit. But they are trying the best they can to work around these obstacles and still provide a great experience. I think it's time we appreciate that. You're right, they can't change their height or noise limit... But they can get inventive to find ways to build a kick ass coaster in spite of their situation. This is the park that's home to Nemesis remember? A coaster that wouldn't be half as good as it is, if it wasn't for the challenges they faced and the brilliant ideas they used to overcome them. Half of Oblivion is underground, Smiler is in a pit, the tops of Rita are painted green, Thirteen has a tire driven lift hill, there's loads of examples in Alton's past of them using their heads to get around noise and height limits. I'm sorry but your whole argument there is just terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 I want to be clear, I'm not trying to pick a side of the argument on wether the ride will be good or bad, I'm just trying to give credit where it is due. I do agree with what your saying to an extent. The layout of the coaster is by no means a strong layout at all. This will be because of the space they have on the Flume site as well as it being likely that the resort won't have been given their desired budget from Merlin for the ride. As a coaster on its own, it is weak, and likely a boring ride. With the theming, it is a ride with great potential, and as we have seen, they have done the theming to a very high standard. Also, can I just point out, the height from the very highest point of the coaster to the lowest point of the coaster is actually bigger than the total height of Galactica, I think it is, just to put some perspective on that. As for the tunnels, it's not like the entire ride is covered in them, they cover areas where there could be more noise... it's not like they can adopt any other method in these sections of the ride other than covering them. My argument is not terrible. I'm recognising both the positive and nagative aspects of the ride. Problem is, some people have convinced themselves that the entire thing is rubbish and will simply fail. At the end of the day, we'll be able to ride it soon enough. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it then. Just don't have such a negative opinion about it before you have even been on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega-Lite Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, Robert.W said: I want to be clear, I'm not trying to pick a side of the argument on wether the ride will be good or bad, I'm just trying to give credit where it is due. I do agree with what your saying to an extent. The layout of the coaster is by no means a strong layout at all. This will be because of the space they have on the Flume site as well as it being likely that the resort won't have been given their desired budget from Merlin for the ride. As a coaster on its own, it is weak, and likely a boring ride. With the theming, it is a ride with great potential, and as we have seen, they have done the theming to a very high standard. Also, can I just point out, the height from the very highest point of the coaster to the lowest point of the coaster is actually bigger than the total height of Galactica, I think it is, just to put some perspective on that. As for the tunnels, it's not like the entire ride is covered in them, they cover areas where there could be more noise... it's not like they can adopt any other method in these sections of the ride other than covering them. My argument is not terrible. I'm recognising both the positive and nagative aspects of the ride. Problem is, some people have convinced themselves that the entire thing is rubbish and will simply fail. At the end of the day, we'll be able to ride it soon enough. I'd like to hear your thoughts on it then. Just don't have such a negative opinion about it before you have even been on it. No no, please don't misunderstand me. Your argument for if the coaster will be good or not is not what I was referring to, that's an opinion and even more so neither or us can stand by our opinions until we have ridden it. I was simply implying, saying "the layout is crap because Alton Towers can't get around the noise or height limits" is silly, considering what they have done in the past. JoshuaA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 18, 2018 Report Share Posted February 18, 2018 On that I can completely agree, I've already acknowledged that the layout isn't very good and with the reasons why. I do think it's a shame considering the past genuinely ground breaking developments at the Resort. All I'm saying is that I'm confident that combined with the theming, the experience as a whole will be a positive one, which of course is my opinion, I'm not asking people to share it, but is just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Robert.W said: On that I can completely agree, I've already acknowledged that the layout isn't very good and with the reasons why. I do think it's a shame considering the past genuinely ground breaking developments at the Resort. All I'm saying is that I'm confident that combined with the theming, the experience as a whole will be a positive one, which of course is my opinion, I'm not asking people to share it, but is just something to consider. I think it's going to be a quality ride experience and a worthy addition to Towers. It won't be top ten material, it won't even be close to being my favourite Wooden ride but I think it's going to have a lot going for it. Fortunately I can look forward to this and Icon and be thankful that the UK's two biggest, most well known parks are getting such unique and good investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Sneak peek at testing - fire and smoke effects - looking good! Stuntman707, Kerfuffle, JoshC. and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Flaming hot it looks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega-Lite Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Looks like it hauls ass at the end of that, quote me as intrigued. Music sounds nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 I'm impressed. Just can't wait to ride the thing now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marhelorpe Posted February 19, 2018 Report Share Posted February 19, 2018 Can't lie but that's not half-bad looking in that video actually. Let's hope it can stay looking this good every single day it's operating, which I'm veeeeeeery certain it will! I wish. Mattgwise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark9 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Ringo and Sidders 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Looking forward to seeing what other special effects are to come - but that does look very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert.W Posted February 21, 2018 Report Share Posted February 21, 2018 The European Coaster Club managed to get an interview with John Wardley about Wicker Man at Alton Towers. Worth a read. https://mobile.twitter.com/ministryofjoy/status/966357136115716096 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenVig Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 Guarantee the fire will be broken on opening day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted February 22, 2018 Report Share Posted February 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, StevenVig said: Guarantee the fire will be broken on opening day Ringo, TPGG, Kerfuffle and 2 others 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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