Next Big Thing - 2016 Development ?

[Ryan]

WE DON'T NEED A GIMMICK

They need it to make money for them instantly, to do this they need to attract a whole lot of guests in the first year of opening. Not by waiting for word of mouth in a few years time. A gimmick also helps the marketing team aim their advertising around that gimmick and gives them something to really get people excited about. It's a shame but that is what John Wardley said at the talk.

[Mark9]

They need it to make money for them instantly, to do this they need to attract a whole lot of guests in the first year of opening. Not by waiting for word of mouth in a few years time. A gimmick also helps the marketing team aim their advertising around that gimmick and gives them something to really get people excited about. It's a shame but that is what John Wardley said at the talk.

It's all very well but it doesn't explain why Merlin have gone for three wing riders. There is literally nothing attention grabbing about Heide's new one for example. It's theme isn't special, it's not the tallest, it's not the fastest, it's not the worlds first or even European first.

[Benin]

It's a shame that having a good coaster/ride is seen as secondary to having a 'gimmick'...

What's Flug's gimmick? Germany's first Wing-Rider, not exactly gonna beat down Europa's efforts now is it?

[OldFarmerDean]

WE DON'T NEED A GIMMICK

I never said I wanted one... it's just how merlin parks in the UK seem to work with their investments - sometimes it brings great rides, and others just prototypes with a basic layout which get thrashed a few years later!

I personally want an RMC which would give them somewhere to stand in terms of advertising, I would have said europes first looping wooden coaster, but that's been ruined now aha! I still love the idea of a ride like Piraten, which looks amazing for airtime, and if I'm right has a 1.2m restriction which would help with their new up for it families approach, it's just finding a way they could market it.

As far as I'm aware we haven't seen a proper big rollercoaster investment for say a decade, from any non merlin parks in the UK, so can't compare how they would advertise a ride without any gimmicks and if it works :/

[Ryan]

Thorpe had enough coasters for now, and definitely more than enough flat rides/water rides. I just want them to get a super immersive dark ride with a gripping back-story, initiative ideas and excellent theming.

[Fin The Human]

Do you not think that merlin may have made another 3 coaster deal with B&M?

First lot were the 3 wing coasters: Gardarland-2011, Thorpe-2012, and Heide-2014.

Then mabey with the confimation of the dive machine at Gardlarland it could look something like this:

Kraken-2010 (heide)

Gardarland-2015/16 (?)

THORPE-2015/16/17 (?)

...... I think it seems logical, and it seems like merlin want to offer the same experience at each park....

[JoshC.]

The thing is, Merlin aren't exclusively going for gimmicks. Wardley said at the event thing that Merlin want two things (Varney also said this in an interview last year I believe):

1) A phrase / sentence that sums up the ride.

2) A killer image (usually in terms of a concept art).

I think both of those are quite self-explanatory.

We can look at all of Merlin's coasters, and I'm pretty sure we can think what each of these are. So, for example:

Saw:

'The steepest freefall drop in the world'. Later, you can also add 'The world's first roller coaster themed to a horror film'.

Flug der Dämonen

'Germany's first wing rider coaster / Germany's first winged coaster'.

Under the two criteria, it's not too hard to imagine a ride which doesn't have any gimmick and still fits in. Whilst it's technically a low-key example, think of Scorpion Express:

'A runaway train with a sting in its tail'.

We have a killer image and a phrase which sums up the ride. Yet it is literally just a bog-standard mine train.

Of course, the easiest thing to fit into the two required criteria is a ride with a major gimmick, as that instantly gives you your phrase, and you can base your 'killer image' around that.

So I think it's a bit of a misconception that Merlin only wants gimmicks. They want rides which, as Ryan says, will attract people the year they open, and it seems to two criteria Merlin outline is the best way to do that. Unfortunately, it's a lot easier to find a gimmick and just make it work round what's required, as opposed thinking of something which is of high quality, sells itself, is original, and fits in with the two criteria to Merlin's satisfaction.

[tomglazed]

...... I think it seems logical, and it seems like merlin want to offer the same experience at each park....

So why should I bother travelling to any of their other parks if I can experience everything that park offers but without the travel cost by going just down the road. I understand what you are saying to some extent but it wouldn't make much business sense; you'd reduce the reason for visitors to come to your park who live closer to another park with much of the same stuff.

I mean Disney may have similar rides e.g. the Big Thunder Mountains and the Space mountains but all of them have some kind of variation. You don't see Walt Disney World making Orlando Adventure...

[Mad Coaster Man]

As much as I'd love a woodie at Thorpe. The chances of us getting one are less than probable or even possible. A Dive Machine would be nice, assuming that it has a longer track layout than say, Oblivion. I'd be perfectly happy with any decent ride, with or without gimmicks, so long as the layout is good, the ride lasts a decent period of time, and with any luck, there is a well constructed theme to be had. Looking at the likes of The Smiler, I hope that we'll get a ride of similar size and ride time within the next few years.

[Will]

As much as I'd love a woodie at Thorpe. The chances of us getting one are less than probable or even possible. A Dive Machine would be nice, assuming that it has a longer track layout than say, Oblivion. I'd be perfectly happy with any decent ride, with or without gimmicks, so long as the layout is good, the ride lasts a decent period of time, and with any luck, there is a well constructed theme to be had. Looking at the likes of The Smiler, I hope that we'll get a ride of similar size and ride time within the next few years.

The best Dive Coasters out there are Oblivion, Sheikra and Griffon. I would love a Dive Coaster (not at Thorpe) that has a big drop like Sheikra or Oblivion, with the design of Oblivion, that would be amazing.

[Sidders]

Really, MCM? I'd say if any coaster type was in the running for Thorpe it'd be a wooden coaster. Either a traditional one or those god-awful hybrid designs (preferably the former).

The myths surrounding insufficient land stability have been banished because the Island A has been there for six years now, and will have been there for a further two when the coaster is opened - ample time for the land mass to become stable, even if wooden supports are 90% more complex and dense that metal supports. The myth that the support structure for woodies was too dense floated around a bit, but this was long before Thorpe had even built Island H (Saw's Island), so its possible that, since the plans for the woodie originally slated for Island H were only shelved - not scrapped - the subsequent building of Island C and Island A could've been partially because these locations are further from the village of Chertsey and offered greater sound barriers due to the trees on the peninsula separating the Britannia Arena and St. Anne's Lake.

[J.S217]

^^^ What about the same sort of structure as the voyage with Metal Structure but wooden tracks.

[Marc]

As much as I'd love a woodie at Thorpe. The chances of us getting one are less than probable or even possible. A Dive Machine would be nice, assuming that it has a longer track layout than say, Oblivion. I'd be perfectly happy with any decent ride, with or without gimmicks, so long as the layout is good, the ride lasts a decent period of time, and with any luck, there is a well constructed theme to be had. Looking at the likes of The Smiler, I hope that we'll get a ride of similar size and ride time within the next few years.

Agree with this. Can't see a woodie ever happening at Thorpe.

[JoshC.]

Really, MCM? I'd say if any coaster type was in the running for Thorpe it'd be a wooden coaster. Either a traditional one or those god-awful hybrid designs (preferably the former).

The myths surrounding insufficient land stability have been banished because the Island A has been there for six years now, and will have been there for a further two when the coaster is opened - ample time for the land mass to become stable, even if wooden supports are 90% more complex and dense that metal supports. The myth that the support structure for woodies was too dense floated around a bit, but this was long before Thorpe had even built Island H (Saw's Island), so its possible that, since the plans for the woodie originally slated for Island H were only shelved - not scrapped - the subsequent building of Island C and Island A could've been partially because these locations are further from the village of Chertsey and offered greater sound barriers due to the trees on the peninsula separating the Britannia Arena and St. Anne's Lake.

Surely if the the trouble was about the time required for the land to set, then surely a woodie could have gone in the main core of the park whenever they wanted? After all, that's had 35-40 odd years to set!

I'm no ground expert, but surely if they can't build on a woodie on the core area of the park because of this dense support stuff, then they won't be able to build one anywhere - can they really infill land to make it more suitable? (I have no idea, genuinely curious, but it does sound pretty weird to me).

If I'm being perfectly honest, I've never quite fully believed the whole land stability thing. I've never heard that about it anywhere than at Thorpe, I guess you could argue why would you, but meh, and it just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Where did these rumours ever come from in the first place anyways? Surely if the ground was not suitable, then the Canada Creek woodie plans wouldn't have got so advanced before being shelved?

As I say, I really have very limited knowledge on all this, but is the ground stability really the main reason why Thorpe aren't getting a woodie?

As for the question about the next Thorpe coaster, who knows. One of those RMCs seems to have been thrown about a lot, but I dunno, would it really fit Thorpe? Just looks like another coaster that Thorpe have, except it's partially made from wood. We all know Thorpe need a ride with good airtime, so something along the lines of a Mack Megacoaster or a B&M / Intamin airtime machine would be nice...

[Mad Coaster Man]

I'd just like a large coaster of any sorts. As much as I enjoy riding The Swarm, it is a little short for my likings and a ride with a ridetime more like The Smiler would be brilliant.

[thorpe park22]

I can tell you that there are 6 ideas for the new ride at Thorpe park, One of them is a Wooden roller coaster

[Tom]

I hope they go with concept 4

[Sidders]

I can tell you that there are 6 ideas for the new ride at Thorpe park, One of them is a Wooden roller coaster

[thorpe park22]

Cant say much more, Focus Groups are happening to do with the new ride

[Coaster]

Cant say much more, Focus Groups are happening to do with the new ride

Tell them to build a wooden coaster!

[Benin]

Tell them to build a wooden coaster!

Up to the many people they ask... If Saw was anything to go by, they'll present the concepts to various lots of visitors and get reactions on each... Indeed, most parks do this...

Makes business sense (in a way), but it's done to those few who get randomly selected...

[Coaster]

I hope they ask me then haha!

[thorpe park22]

the wooden coaster would contain a European first

[Tom]

Inverting woodie here we come

Nice, just needs a bit more

[coastercameron98]

But there's already an Inverting woodie going to Kolmarden Zoo in Sweden...

So surely it can't be to do with inversions on a woodie??