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Second to Disney is not a public Marketing phrase, it is a delusional corporate mindset. They want all their staff to think the work that they do is on the same level as Disney. It is not to be taken literally as though Merlin are going around telling the public their attractions are better than Disney. It is more about them having this mindset yet going ahead with the kind of projects you would never see Disney doing in the same way.

It's more likely 'Bouncezilla' is a code word for Loggers Leap and it's now reopening this year than Swarm going backwards tbh.

I go to Merlin attractions still because despite all the criticisms I make on here, (shocker to all the readers), I still actually enjoy visiting them. Yeah, weird right isn't it? But seriously, just because I visit their attractions does not automatically mean I should love and adore every little thing they do and not utter a single piece of criticism in the process. If I see a flaw or something silly, I will point it out when I feel it is right to do so. In this case, commenting on the absolutely revolting entrance to the Alton Towers Dungeon by simply hiding Charlie's theming with planks of wood, and mocking the delusional mindset of Merlin in the process. If you look at my comments on things like Wicker Man and Gruffaloworks, you will see I have praised them very highly at times, so I'm not a Merlin hater and will give credit when I see it. It's just with the Alton Towers Dungeon, I'm finding very few reasons to praise this right now. I simply just expect better from this company. Simples.

Regardless of the 2nd to Disney discussion, that is still a weak entrance. Tiny portion of theming and then timber. It's just not good enough, however you feel about Merlin, and I don't think I'm Merlin bashing by saying that. There's no axe to grind, it's just not very good.

Are we not allowed to critique now? Merlin use claims such as "Second to Disney", rightly or wrongly is used as a measurement as to the quality of the parks... If they didn't use such hyperbole, perhaps we'd limit our expectations somewhat... But when they claim that they lead themed accommodation, well there should be questions asked...

So you know the funky new graphic Thorpe have designed for the 2019 season? Some eagle eyed person on Facebook has pointed out that Swarm is pictured on it with the back two rows reversed. An old photo perhaps? Or the return of Brave It Backwards? ?

Is written on a website not public domain? Having pride in your company is different to making up ridiculous hyperbole (when you already monopolise the market and actually get people to believe this stuff). You've started out saying it's not a valid argument because Merlin have "never stated it refers to quality", then when pointed to a direct quote saying not just Disney but beating everyone in the world on quality, you then change to say its just hyperbole to be ignored (as well as direct quote from Varney to investors, a video that shouldnt contain "meaningless words"). So if your argument boils down to 'well obviously it's not true' (fair enough), then how come you have a problem with people pointing out it's not true? People are only throwing Merlin's own ridiculous words back at them, I don't see how that's exaggeration on their part. Yeah exactly, it's very indicative of Merlin's deluded mindset and that's obviously what people mean in general when they mock the phrase. It may be an easy shot to mock "second to Disney", but think it's just hilarious how Merlin don't even try to hide their arrogance anymore.

It's a Dungeons though, we know how 3 scenes will go (Judge, Torture and Plague); and I'm sure another one had a highwayman scene and a few have had various witch scenes... Herein lies the issue of copy and pasting all your attractions (something Disney are guilty of, but on an international scale the differences aren't as big a deal for majority of visitors)...

I think this discussion has started to spiral away from my point somewhat (and that's partially my fault; I can see where you're coming from) I hate the 'second to Disney' argument because enthusiasts take it out of context and use it for arguments Merlin don't. Marhelorpe mentioned about how they should be held accountable to those standards because customers don't care about the fine print of the second to Disney claim. My point is that Merlin don't say that to customers - it's pretty much all internal or to investors (of course, a lot of what is said to investors can be found out by the public, but the majority of people will not dig that stuff out). The phrases they do use on their website are what I'd expect any large company to say about itself. And those sorts of phrases should just be ignored, as it's meaningless market spiel in my books. And, more importantly, that's a completely different phrase to the second to Disney line. Whenever I see people throw the 'second to Disney' line, it annoys me (irrationally, I guess) because it's like people can't understand the difference between truth and marketing drivel. They are the second largest in the world, and they'll use size as a way of measuring quality. We'll never truly know what the internal standpoint truly is, as of course they're never going to come out and say 'yeah, we're a bit poo' (though in my experience, plenty of senior people within the company truthfully know where they stand in terms of quality within the industry). So why focus on a throwaway phrase when there's actual, more constructive, points to raise? My case in point is this... Merlin do not look at the quality of Universal and think they produce better quality than that. But as a visitor attraction company in terms of attendance, Merlin are above Universal. This is the best point. The majority of people within Merlin who do end up thinking they're second only to Disney are the low-level, seasonal staff. They'll be made aware of how large Merlin are, and most will be unaware of many parks outside of Merlin and Disney. They'll just go in, take the comment at face value, and move on. So at the low level, it does create this delusion. At the higher level (where arguably it matters, as it's the people who are actually making the decisions, etc), people don't buy into this in my experience, except when they have to smile and nod politely when it's mentioned to investors..

I put the two teasers they have posted together (forming the centre of the park) the arrows seem to be indicating the locations for the events this year; I could be wrong. However it’s interesting how ‘Old town’ appears to be deliberately left out, could they be labelling this area as “under construction for 2020” or simply because this area hasn’t got much going for it at the moment?

But do you see the contradiction here? I think you just accept it and don't see anything wrong with it, whereas others do. It is a valid point people make, I say people shouldnt just accept spin and hyperbole from a company screwing guests over with poor value. They should ask for better than what Merlin thinks it can get away with at high prices forever. If anything people use the second to Disney claim to poke fun at the flaws in Merlin's entire operation, not just criticising one statement they make. If Merlin stopped trying to convince people they were the best at themed accomodation, produced the best quality/most innovative attraction projects "in the world" and trying to brainwash its staff, then there'd still be all the other problems. It's just that their attitude is nicely summed up by the "second to Disney" contradiction. They will make even more noise about it once they "catch"/"stomp"/"crush the mouse" or whatever nasty variant of that phrase they're on to now.

It's the very first thing they say to all new staff in inductions, something like: "We're chasing the mouse, our aim is to be bigger than Disney" accompanied by a slide showing them as second to Disney.

I am seriously tiring of this argument. Yes, Merlin claim they are second to Disney in terms of attendance figures. And as a company they are. They never claim to be second to Disney in terms of quality. People who try and use this argument just come across as ill-informed and ignorant to be honest, and it cheapens your point significantly.

Because it looks (equally predictably) rubbish. No need to defend trash, it's not like Merlin actually care about this other than making easy money. They know they can pay for nothing, do a half arsed job and people will still go along with it. Most the criticism of it I've seen online has been done with humour of disbelief anyway. You don't have to like everything by default for fear of being seen as "negative". True there's always some who will complain regardless, but just look at this. Seeing how people will defend the rubbish being fed them by Merlin (they're capable of better, look at Wicker Man), more because they have something against people's opinions than because they actually like the attraction being made, is sadder in my opinion. If they made anything entertaining and original, I'd be all over it in positivity!

I think the core logo is perfectly fine. It's recognisable, simple yet effective, and easily modifiable (see Stealth, Saw, Swarm, DBGT variations, and now the focus on the infinity-style part of it). Very much a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' in my mind.

Whatever could be said about Thorpe Park itself, that is genuinely a great logo.

Can we get a juggler one to go with Rodeo for us real oldies?!

Before and after from Reddit...