CharlieN Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I feel that this attraction won't have an IP. All that is needed is an impressive majestic immersive family-friendly theme. The only big coasters with IPs at Merlin parks are saw and Sonic spinball (not any more) and I genuinely feel like a woodie is not as IP friendly as a steel coaster. However, with Merlin and DreamWorks link I do think that a successful IP could be How to Train Your Dragon. It's a fun, popular IP, that could easily link to Mutiny Bay. In regards to the "Gimmick", I feel that this coaster will not have one. Watching a John Wardley Q&A, he said that he thought there was a turning point with The Smiler's marketing, in which for the majority of the campaign it did not rely on the 'most inversions' gimmick. Therefore I think this coaster may just be a good coaster with no gimmick... but you never know what Varney's got up his sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Just to let people know, Towers can't alter the layout or plans as the Flume site is now just outside the GDO zones which Smiler was part off. So this is a full planning application with any changes needing to be submitted and approved by the council. pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I've been busy and not been on any other sites to see the reaction, but I can fully understand if it's not all positive. I've been screaming as loud as anyone for a modern wooden coaster in the UK, it is my favorite type and desperately overdue. The problem here is the cross valley plans, which would almost certainly have been a world beating beast of a ride, are still in mind when we look at a fairly standard appearing take on a modern wooden coaster. This looks pretty short and uninspired really, kind of just placed on an available bit of land which could be anywhere, rather than integrated into the surroundings or other attractions. With a patch of land the size of the old flume site they could go huge, have something spectacular. Maybe a flume as well, with the coaster sweeping around it. Take it into the woods for some natural and established cover and interaction. Just something. I'm sure it'll be a good enough ride, but 'good enough' is obviously not what we want or what I believe the park really need. It feels daft being so negative about a ride that no one has ridden, but the plans are pretty clear so I don't see how this can deliver something truly special. I'm sure personally I'll love it when I'm on it, I can't think of a time when that hasn't been the case on any woodie I've ridden, but that will forever be tainted by that 'what could have been' feeling. It's a real shame that this is seen by the powers that be as a sufficient ride to follow in the footsteps of previous SW's, very telling of the 'good enough' era of Merlin we seem to be in at the moment. That phrase seems to course through everything they do. stretchy, Celia Mae, 3Dimensions and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 18 hours ago, BaronC. said: "But if I wanted to look at grass, I'd go to a garden centre, not a theme park" Alton Towers - the park where you can do both! I feed you the set-ups and you deliver the punchlines, Joshua, good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benin Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 What's also disappointing a lot of people are the original plans/talks of this going in Forbidden Valley and being a RMC... It's a good thing, but just not got anything 'WOW' about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldFarmerDean Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 But if it ends up having a preshow, dark ride section, fast lift hill and an inversion or two this looks set to be a solid fun and thrilling ride aimed at older families and thrill seekers... Can't see much wrong with it. THOUGH if it turns out to have no inversions etc. Then it looks like a wasted SW as it doesn't look overly special to carry itself without a gimmick unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThemeParkCrafter Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 First UK coaster to be fully themed with an explained storystory, preshow and dark ride section. We could be getting a coaster like hex for dark rides. The theming could make this ride better than BPB 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtjammy16 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 2 hours ago, pluk said: I've been busy and not been on any other sites to see the reaction, but I can fully understand if it's not all positive. I've been screaming as loud as anyone for a modern wooden coaster in the UK, it is my favorite type and desperately overdue. The problem here is the cross valley plans, which would almost certainly have been a world beating beast of a ride, are still in mind when we look at a fairly standard appearing take on a modern wooden coaster. This looks pretty short and uninspired really, kind of just placed on an available bit of land which could be anywhere, rather than integrated into the surroundings or other attractions. With a patch of land the size of the old flume site they could go huge, have something spectacular. Maybe a flume as well, with the coaster sweeping around it. Take it into the woods for some natural and established cover and interaction. Just something. I'm sure it'll be a good enough ride, but 'good enough' is obviously not what we want or what I believe the park really need. It feels daft being so negative about a ride that no one has ridden, but the plans are pretty clear so I don't see how this can deliver something truly special. I'm sure personally I'll love it when I'm on it, I can't think of a time when that hasn't been the case on any woodie I've ridden, but that will forever be tainted by that 'what could have been' feeling. It's a real shame that this is seen by the powers that be as a sufficient ride to follow in the footsteps of previous SW's, very telling of the 'good enough' era of Merlin we seem to be in at the moment. That phrase seems to course through everything they do. To be fair, this looks more like a family coaster, I don't think it's trying to compete with the cross-valley idea.. Who's to say that can't happen one day? Starting with a smaller woodie is probably a better idea then going all out with the cross valley to begin with pognoi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pognoi Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 I couldn't agree more with this comment. Just because this is happening, it's hardly jeopardizing the potential of a cross valley one too. I would say though planning permission for the cross valley would be a pain, considering the amount of noise barriers they've had to use on this one. But yes, just because this is happening, it doesn't mean cross valley won't, especially if it's going to be a different type of ride for a different audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 30 minutes ago, ThemeParkCrafte said: First UK coaster to be fully themed with an explained storystory, preshow and dark ride section. The "dark ride" section is literally a couple of meters long as it passes under the station building. A preshow is nothing to really wow about it just sets the mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThemeParkCrafter Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Knowing Merlin and the current plans, it is the only world's first I could think of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 The SW's don't have to be world firsts. Nemesis wasn't, it was a European first but not a world's first. They're meant to be world beating rides, something that pushes the boundaries and is a ride that will be looked back on. Well, that's what I've always thought. Nemesis is hugely known, and even though Oblivion is naff as anything, it is hugely known. Air not so much, 13 hardly so but then Smiler was also hugely known thanks to its brilliant marketing campaign. Maybe Merlin should stop worrying about the gimmick and look back on older rides that drew in huge crowds. Varney oversaw the marketing of Nemesis, give us something like that boss man. A well thought out ride that doesn't do anything too gimmicky or use that as its main selling point but instead sells an amazing ride and experience. The Secret Weapon brand can be anything, it's only been limited to coasters because that's all they've invested heavily in. Could be a nice water ride or dark ride. My concern for SW8 is this. Loads of rumours of a huge woodie in FV with its station where Ripsaw stood. Huge thrilling ride. Now, we don't know what this new one will entail, but it doesn't seem as grand as many were hoping. So what if the SW8 tag has been moved from the original plan to this new, presumably cheaper plan since the crash? This is from Bradley Wynne's linedIn: Quote Projects Alton Towers Resort - 2018 Attraction Starting August 2015 Lead Creative (Project Designer) ***Project Currently Highly Confidential*** Team members: Bradley Wynne Alton Towers Resort - 2017 Attraction Starting November 2014 Lead Creative (Project Designer) ***Project Currently Highly Confidential*** Team members: Bradley Wynne https://uk.linkedin.com/in/bradley-wynne-92054343 So this new coaster we're getting started the process after the crash, but what about this 2017 attraction that's on his account? That started in November 2014, same time they started on Galactica and Rollercoaster Restaurant which makes you wonder, was this the original SW8 plans, the nice big woodie planned for FV? Would piece together working on the 3 at the same time to make sure they all tie in. And this 2017 attraction is highly confidential, yet there are no rumours of anything big or even brand new coming next year. So that's my big concern, that the tag has just moved over to make this new investment seem grander as the Secret Weapon brand is a big one for Towers. Just a theory Celia Mae and CharlieN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project LC Posted June 2, 2016 Report Share Posted June 2, 2016 Parks will develop multiple layouts in multiple locations. So that when things happen they can still push out a new ride when its needed. An example is the provisional designs of LC12 where on a document you can see 3 coaster layouts all with a similar design and clearly all wing riders. Eventually they settled on the swarm and was not too different from the design on the document. I suspect what has happened here is that there were 2 or 3 designs in different locations for a wooden coaster and after the crash they ditched the ride at ripsaw for whatever reason and went with the flume site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holtjammy16 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 posted by nemesis94 seems like an average family coaster length, looks fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC. Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Looks fun enough. If the 'lift hill' is more a launch and gets a bit of speed, it'll be a lot better. Mix in the large set pieces, the general feel of the area and maybe an effect or two in the building / sound tunnel and it'll be a neat family coaster that'll fit right in at Alton. Nothing ground breaking or special, just a fun ride that'd get 'Europe's first launched wooden roller coaster' tagged onto it to draw a bit more attention to it. Liam T 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pluk Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 Seeing that I stand by my previous concerns. Lackluster. Graeme 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 236 Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 The irony when the one time Towers could've won enthusiasts over with a woodie, they give us one with a mundane layout. Still excited but it's no Wodan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC! Posted June 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I hope they change parts of it to make it more GCI exciting and speed up that launch because it looks okay if a bit dull at the mo... Cal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 I think it looks very fun. Not secret weapon standard but still a nice little coaster. It's not too short and there's quite a lot of terrain action. My one concern, however, is the drop. It's very slow and there's no banking. I'd previously assumed that you enter the turn from the lift hill at a high angle, so that you could fly through the drop smoothly. Another question for speculation, do you expect the supports to be white or a traditional wood finish? I'm hoping for natural wood as it would fit in with the natural area so much better and look like it was 'meant to be there'. This seems like a back up woodie, and that the decision may have been a hurried one as a result of Towers need for a new ride. I hope that this is a test coaster, if you like, to see if woodies can be popular. If it was to be popular I'd like Towers to reconsider the forbidden valley/cross valley coasters. However, starting with something so small, may just give evidence for a lot of the public that woodies are mundane and boring. (Obviously they're not). I just worry that going small with wood won't convince the public that these rides can be phenomenal. A big woodie, however, would challenge those perceptions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyMoo Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 On 5/31/2016 at 7:57 PM, MattyMoo said: My question is - how are the press going to tediously link SW8 construction to the Smiler accident? Like this, evidently. "Alton Towers 'Secret Weapon 8': Plans emerge for new rollercoaster on anniversary of Smiler ride crash" http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alton-towers-secret-weapon-8-8110784 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, MattyMoo said: Like this, evidently. "Alton Towers 'Secret Weapon 8': Plans emerge for new rollercoaster on anniversary of Smiler ride crash" http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/alton-towers-secret-weapon-8-8110784 "The ride will be around 200 meters high" This is is so infuriating. I advice you to not click on that link and give The Mirror what they want. Views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchada04 Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 It probably is 200 meters high in all fairness, I think the plans say that at some point as they have to show it from sea level or something. Like how RMT is the highest coaster on park or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeah Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 "Proposals for a new ride - dubbed 'Secret Weapon 8' - will be the theme park's first newly-built rollercoaster since Smiler in 2013" SCUSE ME Matt A, CharlieN, MattyMoo and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThemeParkCrafter Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 I know so in 6 years, we get 3 coasters- smiler, Octonauts Rollercoaster Adventure and sw8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieN Posted June 4, 2016 Report Share Posted June 4, 2016 I've just been doing some comparing of SW8 to other GCIs. White Lightning at Fun Spot is the closest thing to this by the looks of the plans. White lightning's max height is 67 feet. SW8's is 27 feet. White lightning cost $3.5 mill and has a longer layout than SW8. So, if a taller, longer ride costs $3.5 mill then how much will this cost? This could be pretty cheap even considering the possibility of a launch and lots of landscaping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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