Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon

[Owen]

Here is said video.

 

 

[Matt10]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but from watching this in the dome yesterday, at the end 2 of the five figures light up red, could this be a sign suggesting more endings in the future ir other improvements?

[Owen]

I would expect so, the resort have already stated Ghost Train will be an on going project so I can see endings being changed and added over the next few years.

[JoshC.]

8 minutes ago, Owen said:

I would expect so, the resort have already stated Ghost Train will be an on going project so I can see endings being changed and added over the next few years.

 

Where has this been stated?

 

Not saying that I don't think it will see changes (to the VR) semi-regularly, but I don't recall any statement (explicit or implicit) saying it's an ongoing project, which would be a big deal. 

[Owen]

Various points while it was being developed, I know figment mentioned it in a news report as well.

[Fin The Human]

I know this isnt reliable and they could just be messing with me, but I was speaking to the ride ops on flying fish as we got the last ride, and they said that they were going to wipe out the shop and add another element to the ride.

[Coaster]

4 hours ago, Fin The Human said:

I know this isnt reliable and they could just be messing with me, but I was speaking to the ride ops on flying fish as we got the last ride, and they said that they were going to wipe out the shop and add another element to the ride.

But the shop's the best part!

 

I'd much rather see the elements already there brought up to scratch before they look at adding more.

[SteveJ]

Merlin would never remove a shop, as they see this is mandatory for new major attractions.

 

This is also not possible under Merlin's policy of retaining all capital expenditure for a minimum of 4 years, only after 4 years would a whole shop be allowed to be removed.

 

It's also highly unlikely anything significant would now be spent on the attraction because the project already went over budget by several millions of pounds. The revisions will probably be A/V improvements, detailing and new VR material (hopefully a total change).

 

Also Flying Fish staff wouldn't know anything about Merlin Magic Making's plans.

[alexander]

After two evacuations, and finally riding it for the first time yesterday (almost). I have to say, what an embarrassment. If that's what £40mil gets you then I'd ask for a bloody refund. Tragic.

[onair]

13 minutes ago, alexander said:

After two evacuations, and finally riding it for the first time yesterday (almost). I have to say, what an embarrassment. If that's what £40mil gets you then I'd ask for a bloody refund. Tragic.

 

Have to agree. Such a disappointment of a ride, best thing about it is the shop.

 

Once again over hyped by Merlin. Think I would have preferred a classic old fashioned ghost train rather than the VR.

 

Give me Hex any day over this. 

 

    

[alexander]

4 minutes ago, onair said:

 

Have to agree. Such a disappointment of a ride. 

 

Once again over hyped by Merlin. Think I would have preferred a classic old fashioned ghost train rather than the VR.

 

Give me Hex any day over this. 

 

    

Funnily enough, I actually did mention hex yesterday and I would rank that way higher than this. To me it's subterra on steroids and pulled off badly. The concept was great but they've failed to deliver.

 

What happened with the dolls in the advertising? why am I staring at some green smoke on loop for half the ride? Why does the ride system barely move when something is being physically thrown at you? Where are the 12 endings we promised? Why has it bothered to be themed to a Victorian train and not bothered to capitalise on it?

 

I'm a fan of derren and his work and whilst very skeptical reading the comments on here I thought if I go in with no expectations, surely it would be better than expected? I barely feel like he's had any input on the ride at all as this does not reflect the work he usually puts out.

[Kerfuffle]

9 minutes ago, onair said:

Have to agree. Such a disappointment of a ride.

...and THAT is where you're wrong!

 

Strictly speaking, Derren Brown's Ghost Train is NOT much of a ride and therefore shouldn't be thought as one. It's simply a highly immersive experience. My best advice for anyone experiencing it for the first time is to go in with zero expectations...with the exception of the things we already know from Thorpe, such as the suspended train carriage. If you go in thinking it's going to be an exciting ride experience then of course you'd be disappointed! It's purely an experience designed to immerse you and take you on some kind of adventure to another time and another place. Not to mention mess with your mind, hence Derren himself having a huge involvement.

 

And it's funny how you prefer Hex to this when Hex has pretty much the same ratio of ride to experience (Not calling you a hypocrite though. I personally prefer Hex too)

 

Saying this, I personally find Ghost Train to be one of my favourites on park. Yes it has its problems but it is undoubtedly one of the most immersive theme park attractions I've ever experienced with incredible themeing and some fantastic soundtrack. And if you've only gone and pushed that all aside and assumed a ride as major as others on park, then I'm afraid you really have let your hopes overcome you.

[alexander]

not sure if serious

[Marc]

Personally I think the rides biggest problem is that green mist hold scene - it wasn't obviously never meant to play in theory (just like the hold scene in train 1 which I suspect most here have not seen) but unfortunately it does and it totally kills the rides momentum.

 

The first train is done very well - the person which ever one you get sets the scene explains what's happening and the story line - the effects on the train are all timed to perfection and when that "thing" is rushing towards you it's actually really creepy.

 

9 times out of 10 the evacuation scene is also done well - it's a shame the crashing tube train isn't working at the moment but when it is watching people run out the way of it is pretty priceless - whilst the actors are trying their best without it it don't quite work and always feels something is missing. 

 

On the 2nd train the vr again imo actually starts quite well with the creature tearing the side of the train off - again going of reactions it's received well just like the other passenger being torn away and your first face to face meeting with the creature - unfortunately for the ride here the momentum is completely killed by the looping green fog / random ending.

 

Im really looking forward to seeing what they do with this over closed season - the ride has imo a tonne of potential - they've invested in the best hardware out there at the moment which also helps compared to the mobile phone VR counterparts. If they can get the ride working reliabilbly with the headsets not randomly moving around and the headphone volume perfect I really do think this ride will do good things for them.

[tomglazed]

I think the exciting thing about the ride is that they now have something which, in the grand scheme of things, highly customisable for new experiences. Compared to other attractions, bar the 4D cinema, it can be evolved in a much easier fashion... and not just by facing backwards.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mark9]

4 hours ago, alexander said:

not sure if serious

 

I've missed you.

[SteveJ]

5 hours ago, Kerfuffle said:

...and THAT is where you're wrong!

 

Strictly speaking, Derren Brown's Ghost Train is NOT much of a ride and therefore shouldn't be thought as one. It's simply a highly immersive experience.

[..]

Saying this, I personally find Ghost Train to be one of my favourites on park. Yes it has its problems but it is undoubtedly one of the most immersive theme park attractions I've ever experienced with incredible themeing and some fantastic soundtrack. And if you've only gone and pushed that all aside and assumed a ride as major as others on park, then I'm afraid you really have let your hopes overcome you.

 

You have just described a dark ride or themed attraction, which need not be 'rides' the whole way through, and Derren Brown's Ghost Train is nothing new. It is very bespoke, which is a good thing creatively, but just underused and poorly executed for what it is.

 

It's fantastic you think it is a great experience and that you enjoy it, that's great. But then if you or others were to have ridden the kinds of dark rides or themed attractions that have been achieved in other parks (or even on a smaller scale right here in the UK 10-20 years ago), you'd perhaps see DBGT is a rather superficial attempt to do the same as those parks have been doing for years - dressed up with promotion as being cutting edge and world-leading.

 

Themed entertainment is something Merlin apparenrlty just can't get their head around, despite it being in their company name. They say things like "highly immersive" and "psychological", and some of them in MMM do have a background in theatre design (which is what themed entertainment is rooted in). But then they come up with poor practical solutions to achieve those ideas like 'sit down VR', a pole with headlights on it for a train crash, shouting 'actors' to create panic without much real show FX and stingy scenic design. You don't need enormous budgets to make a great show that's really fun for guests, but a company as loaded as Merlin shouldnt have a problem if they really wanted to deliver the best show.

 

Practices, ethos and achievements that have been used in the industry for decades to great results are abandoned under Merlin , they contradict themselves so often by running their parks as a big bunch of amusement rides with little understanding of 'themed' entertainment and show, only to attempt making really ambitious 100% show-based, immersive attractions like DBGT or Sub Terra without the experience or ability to pull it off.

 

Perhaps the best example of this kind of attraction done so well was Kongfrontation at Universal, which DBGT is very close to in its format (except Kong used all-practical effects rather than A/V effects). And that was a whole 26 years ago they achieved that.

[Marhelorpe]

The biggest problem with Ghost Train in my opinion is not the reliability issues it experiences on a daily basis, but the fact it has been overhyped and under-delivered on such a huge scale I have not seen before.

 

Think about this and let's go back to 2009/10 to Alton Towers when Thirteen was being constructed. Who here remembers some of the ridiculous claims and marketing that was used for this attraction? Here are some I can remember to name a few:

 

- World's ultimate roller coaster.

- World's first "Psycoaster".

- Only 16-55's are allowed to ride due to it being so intense.

 

When it finally opened, public feedback was mixed. Why? Because I distinctly remember there were many who followed this marketing and had expectations that this was going to be the next version of Nemesis and the most intense ride in the park. Instead, they got a family coaster with a lacklustre outdoor section and an indoor vertical drop. As a result, the marketing was very misleading for the public and that is why Thirteen still continues to have mixed feedback to this day, although not as noticeable as it was in 2010. I like Thirteen for what it is, bar the marketing.

 

With Ghost Train, we have seen the exact same thing happen and it just shows you that Merlin's marketing team have not learnt a single lesson since 2010. We have had so many promising claims about this ride before it opened that naturally, people are going to have high expectations when they eventually ride it. Like before, here are some of them which Thorpe Park are still using today, quoted from marketing material and their own website:

 

- The world's only fully immersive psychological attraction designed to manipulate the human mind.

- The next generation of theme park experience.

- The future for theme parks across the world.

- Completely re-writes the rules for what theme parks can do.

- Over 1000 specialists collaborated to create this experience.

- This attraction is not suitable for guests with psychological or neurological disorders.

 

Naturally, people (including myself) were expecting something truly extraordinary here that will make it a phenomenal experience for riders, but come July 8th 2016 when the ride finally opened, we were treated with something that did not deliver what was promised and the fault is entirely down to the marketing team behind this experience. Where are the 12 experiences? Where is the other ending? What "manipulates" the human mind? So many questions that have not been answered. To tell people before they go on it the first time to have low expectations when this has all been spoon-fed to them over the last 12 months is silly.

 

I must admit that when I first rode this on July 1st during the rehearsal weekend, I did praise the ride a lot saying how well it all worked. Now I look back at the review I made which is still viewable on this forum, I realise how naive I was at the time as I refused to believe the experience was not what is lived up to be. Over time, I now see this attraction as Thirteen V2.0 in terms of marketing, and Nemesis Sub Terra V2.0 in terms of execution (nice idea, poorly executed) primarily because over time when the hype died down, reality sets in.

 

It's clearly obvious something during the construction and implementation stages of this project has gone wrong and it has yet to be resolved. If you saw a 10 minute documentary from the BBC back in May showing the behind the scenes making of the ride, you will notice there are various elements, actors and speeches which have not made any appearance in the attraction, including a quick clip of what I am certain will be the "new destination" next year with these flying creatures with fire. Why have these not been used on the ride? What went wrong? Why was there a 2 month delay? Could this be the reason? So many unanswered questions.

 

Lastly, what irritates me the most is the fact the park seems to be in denial that their latest investment has become a white elephant project. If you look at people's reviews and opinions on the ride from the public (not forum members), you will see the majority of them are far from impressed, whether it's people on Twitter (especially), Facebook or Google Reviews. So what has the park done in response? Instead of taking on their feedback and fixing effects such as the broken tube train which is still present today, they are deleting people's negative opinions on the ride and silencing them for voicing an opinion that does not match what they want to hear. I can't confirm if this is happening or not, but considering I have seen people's posts on their Facebook media page criticising the ride or on Twitter have been occasionally disappearing, it must be happening.

 

Granted, I'm not saying everyone who has ridden Ghost Train hates it as there are some good reviews for it out there, but one thing we can all agree on is the fact this has become the most overhyped product Merlin has made to date, even more so than Thirteen.

 

I want to believe this ride can get better by next year, believe me, I really want to love this attraction. But considering we are seeing so many issues with it at present with feedback, reliability, broken effects and missing elements, I doubt it very much and therefore, I have given up on it.

 

This is the last time I will ever listen to or follow Merlin's marketing again. Ever.

 

(Rant over)

[Marc]

I don't really think you can blame Marketing for the issues looking at the quotes you pointed out 

 

- The world's only fully immersive psychological attraction designed to manipulate the human mind. - very easy to see where they are coming from - the floating carriage, moving into a different station, I for one had no idea it did that and was totally impressed when it did

 

- The next generation of theme park experience. - As much as people won't like it / may disagree they are probably right - VR isn't going to go away any time soon I expect we will see more and more of it.

- The future for theme parks across the world. - -as above 

 

- Completely re-writes the rules for what theme parks can do. - not sure what's refer to here really tbf

 

- Over 1000 specialists collaborated to create this experience. - again probably true and an impressive stat.

 

- This attraction is not suitable for guests with psychological or neurological disorders. - no idea what these are TBH 

 

I think it's reallly difficult for us to know the GP reaction on this - alot of the reviews you refer to are more related to technical issues with the ride rather than the experience it's self, along with that what might seem like a lot of comments on social media it's a fraction compared to the amount of people who ride it on a daily basis.

 

Also I don't think the tube train has been out of action for that long - I agree it's hardly ideal but unfortunately not all things can be fixed overnight, fairly sure it's been broken about a week.

 

As I've said when the experience works 100% as it should I think it's actually a really good experience - unfortunately a lot of the time that don't happen. If they can work on the small glitches with the headsets and headphones to get them consistently reliable and improve the VR content I'm confident reaction will be significantly better.

[alexander]

1 hour ago, Mark9 said:

 

I've missed you.

 I've missed you too! Come to a meet soon please!

Anyways O/T What's better, SAW or DBGT? Both are hideous.

[Charlesberg]

2 minutes ago, alexander said:

Anyways O/T What's better, SAW or DBGT? Both are hideous.

Saw...

 

Even at its roughest 

[alexander]

Anyways, credit where it is due: the carriage is executed pretty well and the first VR section is pretty good. The woman with the dog I was impressed with and the acting was pretty good. My problem with the first part is it's just too short when the 'infected' start coming and you're rushed off in an emergency too swiftly before anything has really happened. The 'underground' area, scenically, is actually really good but after that... Well. It's just a non-event really.

 

Considering this was a major investment, Thorpe's biggest to date, it's many shortcomings is where my issues lie with the 'immersive experience'. Especially when the 'cutting edge technology' was a few headsets, a couple of actors and staff tapping you on the knees every so often. I personally didn't find the VR that impressive but maybe that's because I've had experiences with it before. Shrug.

 

Anyways, thank god they are improving it for next year with a new destination and I'll guess we'll have another crack at it next year. I guess gold stars for trying though, eh?

Side note: those who were saying the pre-show is comparable to Disney is laughable at best.

[Marhelorpe]

12 minutes ago, alexander said:

Considering this was a major investment, Thorpe's biggest to date, it's many shortcomings is where my issues lie with the 'immersive experience'. Especially when the 'cutting edge technology' was a few headsets, a couple of actors and staff tapping you on the knees every so often. I personally didn't find the VR that impressive but maybe that's because I've had experiences with it before. Shrug.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Merlin have hyped this up so much by claiming stuff such as it being their biggest investment to date, cutting edge technology (which doesn't work properly 70% of the time) and a highly immersive experience that the expectations from guests are naturally going to be high as a result.

If this attraction was not hyped as much as it was, I am certain feedback would be considerably higher.

[homer22422]

From the video, It looks like there is going to be a walk through part of the ride?

Are they going to remove the train crash scene and get us to walk through there?

[SteveJ]

Ignore ALL Merlin promotion & advertising and your enjoyment of rides will improve tenfold. And in all big companies in general really.

 

If you look on the official webpage for DBGT not one image on there is actually from the ride. I find this pretty awful but its just the hyperbole way Merlin advertise things. Almost all their claims about the ride, are very carefully worded to sound good, but are in fact not at all what fans should have in mind when going on the ride.

 

- The first thing they put out to the public is an exaggerated budget figure. They want to impress with money before even finalising what the ride will be, and a huge amount of that money goes on things not affecting the public's experience in the final ride. Merlin have made it status quo for many fans to be thinking about the big budget when they go into their attractions, I think this is wrong, fans should be thinking about having fun.

 

- "World's firsts", "innovative", "next generation", "the future", all these things are purely hyperbole. Honestly. Even X No Way Out was heavily promoted upon opening as being "the future of theme parks across the world". These phrases are used all the time and have been for years, not just for theme parks either. Phones, computers, anything involving "technology" are always sold in this style. In reality, Derren Brown's Ghost Train just makes a bespoke use of a technology-based product that's currently trending. That's all that really is.

 

-"Over a 1000 specialists" - Large amounts of contractors and tradespeople are always used on major attractions, Derren Brown would have had much more because of its bespoke nature - but it shouldn't matter to guests' experience at all. Using this as an actual strapline to the public is so on-the-nose and it doesn't necessarily mean anything about the ride itself. It can range from the ground surveyors, the concrete pourers, the structural engineers, architect, concept designers, scenic artists, AV installers, VR content production team, transit system engineers, research & development, animation designers, lighting, audio, carpenters, electricians, etc, like all major show attractions. It doesn't necessarily guarantee the ride is a success if you think about it.

 

Merlin are a marketing-rooted company from the top down so they intensely focus their wordings, imagery, etc. But often, categorically, it is so very far removed from the rides they actually build.

Ive avoided seeing all promotion to do with Derren Brown's GT since it began and just waiting for the actual ride to open, and it makes an enormous difference. I still don't like the ride but theres none of the false pretence, slowly wearing off novely and then big disillusionment that so many people are put through by Merlin's way of doing things.