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Derren Brown's Ghost Train: Rise of the Demon


Marc

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9 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

I have read it, it doesn't change my opinion and I don't want to cause a stir by replying to it.

That advert is false advertising.

Not trying to start an argument, but if you're afraid of causing a stir by replying to my post, then surely that means you accept any response disagreeing with it is, at best, clutching at straws?

 

I'm all ears for a discussion and any fair reply to my post, but I don't think anything I've said is far from the truth at the moment. 

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"The only similar thing we have is Smiler, where there were delays in construction from a structural perspective which caused delays.  And this is, at least, being dealt with slightly better as there's more notice at the lack of opening.  So I don't get the whole 'Do they ever learn', 'Typical', blah, blah, blah.

...it seems that time and time again it just feels like the majority of the (Thorpe) enthusiast community just seems to want to moan, and type before thinking.  Just makes you wonder what's the point."

 

You would be quite right to feel so exasperated Josh if things under the surface were all rosey in the industry, but sadly it often isn't as straigtforward as that. People are  justified to express disappointment when projects are handled as dysfunctionally as the recent ones in Merlin parks. Often the more you know behind the scenes about projects like this one, the more the constant delays and lack of quality & completion starts to make sense. In my opinion the systems under current project managements needs to become more professional, more solidly learnt and more focussed on the final product than the ego-satisfying, oversights and over-ambitions decisions that are on the rise. There are no excuses for why The Smiler had so many mistakes in construction and planning, why Sub Terra closed after only a few seasons, why this that and the other were only completed a couple of hours before opening, etc.

Building a massive project such as this is extremely difficult even with the best teams, and Derren Brown's Ghost Train has every reason to turn out very well in the end (it has every reason to be Merlin's best theatrical attraction ever), but they've both made it more difficult for themselves in many ways by making poor decisions along the way and getting caught up in internal politcs. Perhaps they should focus on learning from mistakes in designing and funding an attraction, rather than racing to "beat Disney", "prove that the new attraction will make X amount of money" and other such lopsided priorities in the future. That being said, often negative enthusiast response is simply cynical, uninformed and very black and white, which you are quite right does nothing to help anyone.

 

If the ride is delayed then so be it, all I truly worry about at the moment is the people urging it to open when it simply isn't a complete attraction yet. It will be much more worth it in the end.

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5 minutes ago, Loose Steel Bluth said:

I think the issue on this site is that most members are AP holders who have a set time limit on their visits, whereas the average guest isn't an AP holder and can just wait to visit if their main reason to is Derren Brown.  

Isn't in the other way around? We can wait to visit as we have passes. However, 'the average guest'  may have booked for the end of May with the soul intention to ride DBGT only to find that it isn't open. Therefore, surely this affects non AP holders more? 

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12 minutes ago, BaronC. said:

Not trying to start an argument, but if you're afraid of causing a stir by replying to my post, then surely that means you accept any response disagreeing with it is, at best, clutching at straws?

 

I'm all ears for a discussion and any fair reply to my post, but I don't think anything I've said is far from the truth at the moment. 

No, it simply means that I don't want to start an argument on here, and frankly I can't be bothered to type out a well thought-out reply when it will just get a load of "stop moaning" stuff back.

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Just now, CharlieN said:

Isn't in the other way around? We can wait to visit as we have passes. However, 'the average guest'  may have booked for the end of May with the soul intention to ride DBGT only to find that it isn't open. Therefore, surely this affects non AP holders more? 

They could get their ticket revalidated so not really such a big issue unless they have booked hotels/travel.

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11 minutes ago, Archive said:

You would be quite right to feel so exasperated Josh if things under the surface were all rosey in the industry, but sadly it often isn't as straigtforward as that. People are  justified to express disappointment when projects are handled as dysfunctionally as the recent ones in Merlin parks. Often the more you know behind the scenes about projects like this one, the more the constant delays and lack of quality & completion starts to make sense. In my opinion the systems under current project managements needs to become more professional, more solidly learnt and more focussed on the final product than the ego-satisfying, oversights and over-ambitions decisions that are on the rise. There are no excuses for why The Smiler had so many mistakes in construction and planning, why Sub Terra closed after only a few seasons, why this that and the other were only completed a couple of hours before opening, etc.

Building a massive project such as this is extremely difficult even with the best teams, and Derren Brown's Ghost Train has every reason to turn out very well in the end (it has every reason to be Merlin's best theatrical attraction ever), but they've both made it more difficult for themselves in many ways by making poor decisions along the way and getting caught up in internal politcs. Perhaps they should focus on learning from mistakes in designing and funding an attraction, rather than racing to "beat Disney", "prove that the new attraction will make X amount of money" and other such lopsided priorities in the future. That being said, often negative enthusiast response is simply cynical, uninformed and very black and white, which you are quite right does nothing to help anyone.

Comment of the week. That should be a thing on here actually.

As for the announcement, shambles etc etc etc. Must be costing the park a fortune in people holding off visiting, has it been unusually quiet? I'd expect it to have been.

 Who is the project manager and are they now seeking alternative employment opportunities?

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5 minutes ago, Coaster Jamie said:

No, it simply means that I don't want to start an argument on here, and frankly I can't be bothered to type out a well thought-out reply when it will just get a load of "stop moaning" stuff back.

There's a difference between an argument and a discussion.

 

For the record, my post is not a stop moaning one, nor wpuld any reply be like that.  However, simply put, it is tiring seeing the same old moaning replies which seem.to have no thought put into them other than 'Thorpe have mucked up again, time to moan!'

 

Personally, I would appreciate a well thought out, proper, reponse if you had the time, rather than a 'I can't be bothered to reply', and would actually read it and reply appropriately.  But hey, each to their own. :)

 

---

 

@Archive - There are a couple of things I want to respond to your post about, but will respond later when I'm at my laptop.

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They'll have put a timescale on it because that's what they'll have been aiming towards after the first delay. Thorpe didn't say May knowing it wouldn't be ready, that will have been what they were aiming for and will have been confident on it, but sometimes technology doesn't play ball and all go to plan. 

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5 minutes ago, Owen said:

I know right! It's not like anywhere else does this sort of thing!!!

You wouldn't find this sort of behaviour with Chiapas at Phantasialand or The Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Disney World! Goodness Merlin how dare you be the only company to open rides late...

Thing is European Parks don't usually give out a set date/time for a new ride to be open they will just open it.

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True, but when European parks give out the opening year and don't meet it you have to feel that they aren't doing too bad only being a month or so behind ;) 

I feel sorry for poor Thorpe. They can't keep people happy either way, so I hope the rest of the way it's smooth sailing! :)

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34 minutes ago, BaronC. said:

There's a difference between an argument and a discussion.

 

For the record, my post is not a stop moaning one, nor wpuld any reply be like that.  However, simply put, it is tiring seeing the same old moaning replies which seem.to have no thought put into them other than 'Thorpe have mucked up again, time to moan!'

 

Personally, I would appreciate a well thought out, proper, reponse if you had the time, rather than a 'I can't be bothered to reply', and would actually read it and reply appropriately.  But hey, each to their own. :)

I'm well aware of the differences between an argument and a discussion, unfortunately some people aren't and when you have your account reported by someone as a spam account because they disagree with your opinion on something it makes me wonder if there's any point debating on here, but here goes...

1 hour ago, BaronC. said:

People keep going back to the "if they weren't 100% certain the ride wasn't going to open on a set date, they shouldn't have announced it" point.  Two things:

-Do people honestly think that the park would announce a date they weren't confident of reaching?  Or do people genuinely think the park goes 'Let's say Ghost Train is opening on this day when we have know it won't, and just p!ss everyone off and tell them it won't open then a week beforehand!!'?  Delays can and do happen, with everything and anything.

-Let's not forget that it was actually enthusiasts (well, pretty much everyone in fact), who were pushing the park for an opening date.  As soon as the name was announced, people were never content with "Spring 2016", they wanted to know NOW when it would open.  People were moaning there was no opening date.  When the park said they'd try and communicate an opening date in February, people still moaned there was no date set during the last week of February, and were getting all angsty.  Christ knows why when other, bigger, parks around the world are able to not announce opening dates for rides.  Simply a case of Thorpe being damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Whether they were confident or not is irrelevant - as you said, delays happen, and it baffles me that Thorpe announced a time scale after the backlash they got after the first delay.  Surely it would have made sense not to specify a date, therefore building up people' expectations (and causing them to book hotels & tickets etc!).  This has once again lead to thousands of people being let down and Thorpe are ultimately suffering as a result of it as well, when simply advertising the ride as "coming soon" (as they are doing now) would have avoided this.

1 hour ago, BaronC. said:

Thorpe are also saying that the ride isn't ready.  Obviously they hoped to have it ready now, but unfortunately it's not.  So, what, do people want to go on the ride when it's incomplete from a creative viewpoint, and experience a rubbish ride that's of course not worth the hype?  Or just miss out on part of the attraction altogether.  I find it funny how people are going on as though it's the end of the world, yet when Dollywood announced the Lightning Rod would be delayed (it was originally advertised to be opening in March), people were understanding - and still are - because 'the ride isn't ready yet'.  What makes Lightning Rod so different to this?  Or is just because it's Thorpe and people like to take a pop whenever, however and for whatever reason...

Also, this is the first time that Thorpe have actually had to delay a ride's opening (I believe).  Yes, Vortex was advertised as open when it was being built, but that is slightly different.  The only similar thing we have is Smiler, where there were delays in construction from a structural perspective which caused delays.  And this is, at least, being dealt with slightly better as there's more notice at the lack of opening.  So I don't get the whole 'Do they ever learn', 'Typical', blah, blah, blah.

People are discussing Thorpe more than Dollywood because this is a Thorpe Park forum, it's as simple as that.  I'm sure that the people affected by Lightning Rod's delay are discussing it and possibly that it's bad (depending on how it was handled - I haven't got a clue as I haven't really been following).

Regarding the "do they ever learn", it boils down to recent projects; they announced a date for The Smiler which was delayed, and then delayed again.  Then they announced the date for Derren Brown's Ghost Train which was delayed, so what did they do?  Released another deadline which has now also been delayed.  It's easy to see why people are getting frustrated IMO.

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