Rant

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

You say that but media is one of the things which has really annoyed me during this whole pandemic  - and this is a good example, this graphic showing the UK having a higher death rate than the entirety of the EU, its still being shared over on Twitter now, its is so twisted almost to try scare people and I don't really get why - a bit of research shows Spain are literally lying about death numbers (you can see when they went from over 200 deaths per day to 2) and god knows how accurate other countries data are too - then the UK is accused of lying about death numbers because they added on 400 or so from previous weeks... surely that's the opposite of lying?

In a time where #BlackLivesMatter it deeply saddens me that the TPM team is made up of just white males.

 

Where is the gender and racial equality? 

[Benin]

In TPMs side of things, who are prominent members of the forums who are either BAME or female AND are suitable candidates for working on the team?

 

If the numbers aren't there then the representation won't be. And having a situation of putting someone on the team purely as a tick box exercise isn't the point of racial or sexual equality. 

 

It's precisely the same issue with football managers. Between the ridiculous amounts of money making teams believe they would be taking a risk with younger managers; how many BAME people are going through the coaching system in order to get those roles? Not enough.

[Mark9]

19 hours ago, MarkC said:

In a time where #BlackLivesMatter it deeply saddens me that the TPM team is made up of just white males.

 

Where is the gender and racial equality? 

 

I wish there was more variety in the coaster community in general. It's a very white male dominated scene and always has been and I'm not sure why this is the case. (I have theories though)

[jessica2]

I mean the coaster community certainly is male dominated, I can only comment from my perspective but I guess you can’t force people to be interested in something if they aren’t, although more diversity would be nice it can’t really be forced as we all like different things. 

 

My sewing and dancing groups by contrast tend to be female dominated, and the current admins/staff are all female.

I guess the only thing that can be done for a hobby/interest forum is to ensure there are no barriers to entry, and we all make an effort so that new members are made to feel welcome and treated with respect.

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, jessica2 said:

I mean the coaster community certainly is male dominated, I can only comment from my perspective but I guess you can’t force people to be interested in something if they aren’t, although more diversity would be nice it can’t really be forced as we all like different things. 

 

My sewing and dancing groups by contrast tend to be female dominated, and the current admins/staff are all female.

I guess the only thing that can be done for a hobby/interest forum is to ensure there are no barriers to entry, and we all make an effort so that new members are made to feel welcome and treated with respect.

 

Jessica for Mod.

[JoshC.]

I've noticed that the coaster community is slightly more diverse on social media (in that there's more girls on there). It's probably not the most surprising thing though, as signing up to an online forum is intimidating. It can be even moreso for a teenage girl. Why there's few BAME people within the community is a mystery to me though.

[SteveJ]

1 hour ago, JoshC. said:

as signing up to an online forum is intimidating. It can be even moreso for a teenage girl

Not that you intended it to sound that way of course, but isn't this sort of view really patronising. Maybe it's more likely that there's just not as many girls interested in a forum.

I think in general theme park enthusiasts are moving away from forums and more towards social media, which is both good and bad. Good that there's more personality and a mix of more people, but bad because of the limitations of social media rewarding clickbait and vlogger fame over real enthusiasm. It's just pros and cons really!

Either way, I second that forcing representation through tokenism is never a good idea. I don't think it suggests discrimination that the mods are white males, when most the forum seemingly is. Let's see them as individuals rather than categorise by their skin colour and gender. It's all about equal opportunity!

[JoshC.]

8 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

Not that you intended it to sound that way of course, but isn't this sort of view really patronising. Maybe it's more likely that there's just not as many girls interested in a forum.

 

Yes, I see what you're saying. However, from some people I've spoken to, they've said that they either didn't join forums because they found the prospect intimidating, or didn't participate much after joining because they felt intimidated by the idea of a male-dominated forum. 

 

I don't want to make a generalization there, but it's definitely a trend I've noticed from people I've spoken to. 

[pluk]

On 6/9/2020 at 11:53 PM, MarkC said:

In a time where #BlackLivesMatter it deeply saddens me that the TPM team is made up of just white males.

 

Where is the gender and racial equality? 

 

Does it deeply sadden you, or would you just like some attention? You are historically one of the most insulting people in here and you've been warned about it before. The last time you were warned it was for being insulting to one of the very few people here who I know not to be white. Probably not very welcoming to actual or potential members from a more diverse background, is it? Maybe putting more thought into your actual actions would be better than these shallow words?

 

The last time there was any significant change of the team it was promoted on the forums, applications were submitted blindly, and the existing team chose a couple of people blindly based on their application. I wouldn't know, and I'm sure the team wouldn't know, the ethnicity or sex of the applicants. I have no idea about the sex or ethnicity of the vast majority of users here, the nature of forums mean they are to a large extent pretty anonymous, especially if you want them to be. 

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, pluk said:

 

Does it deeply sadden you, or would you just like some attention? You are historically one of the most insulting people in here and you've been warned about it before. The last time you were warned it was for being insulting to one of the very few people here who I know not to be white. Probably not very welcoming to actual or potential members from a more diverse background, is it? Maybe putting more thought into your actual actions would be better than these shallow words?

 

The last time there was any significant change of the team it was promoted on the forums, applications were submitted blindly, and the existing team chose a couple of people blindly based on their application. I wouldn't know, and I'm sure the team wouldn't know, the ethnicity or sex of the applicants. I have no idea about the sex or ethnicity of the vast majority of users here, the nature of forums mean they are to a large extent pretty anonymous, especially if you want them to be. 

God, it’s almost like it was an inside joke, and something discussed, with the owner of the site too.

 

Don’t see why you are pulling the race card quite frankly.

 

Furthermore, I do not see the need for a moderation team to bring up 

disciplinary matter that were dealt with in private, back up into the public domain. Seems like the power is getting to your head.

[StevenVig]

11 minutes ago, MarkC said:

God, it’s almost like it was an inside joke, and something discussed, with the owner of the site too.

 

Don’t see why you are pulling the race card quite frankly.

 

Furthermore, I do not see the need for a moderation team to bring up 

disciplinary matter that were dealt with in private, back up into the public domain. Seems like the power is getting to your head.

Mark asks a reasonable question here though. There was no malice behind his post.

 

As a Queer POC on this forum, I can honestly say that personally, the lack of diversity has never actually crossed my mind. I’ve never considered race or ethnicities within this community. It does get you thinking though, it has never been an issue for me, and is something that I guess I just accept. 
 

Though I can now see how this might be perceived to others though, and it is a healthy discussion to be had

[Marc]

2 minutes ago, StevenVig said:

Mark asks a reasonable question here though. There was no malice behind his post.

 

As a Queer POC on this forum, I can honestly say that personally, the lack of diversity has never actually crossed my mind. I’ve never considered race or ethnicities within this community. It does get you thinking though, it has never been an issue for me, and is something that I guess I just accept. 
 

Though I can now see how this might be perceived to others though, and it is a healthy discussion to be had

Sure it’s a healthy discussion and am happy to have it - as Pluk said all team member applications the last time we did them were anonymous to keep things as fair for everyone as possible. 

[pluk]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

 

Don’t see why you are pulling the race card quite frankly.

 

Makes post heavily implying that there is some casual sexism and racism at play in the running of this site. Blames the responder for pulling the race card. Genius.

 

I can't speak for the admin, but this is a small site which is basically used by those who find it, and in turn modded by those who are here. There's no marketing, there's no targeted effort to attract anyone in particular, it's just here. The mods can only be selected from those who are here and who apply, it's not like it's paid or advertised elsewhere.

 

What just might put new people off getting involved is obnoxious hateful posts, like some the ones you make. Even if the recipient of 'banter' (or whatever you would call it) is in on it, how does it look to outsiders? Not welcoming

 

The content is theme parks and basically devoid of race in any meaningful way; as it's largely anonymous I don't see how we could ever know the demographic that is here and you don't know who you are engaging with. I suspect that might be why @StevenVig hadn't really thought about race in that way in the community as he said? I might not be as alert to it myself, would be interested to know if there has ever been anything here that you have found offensive or discriminatory if you are happy to talk about it? 

 

[MarkC]

13 hours ago, pluk said:

Makes post heavily implying that there is some casual sexism and racism at play in the running of this site. Blames the responder for pulling the race card. Genius.

 

I can't speak for the admin, but this is a small site which is basically used by those who find it, and in turn modded by those who are here. There's no marketing, there's no targeted effort to attract anyone in particular, it's just here. The mods can only be selected from those who are here and who apply, it's not like it's paid or advertised elsewhere.

 

What just might put new people off getting involved is obnoxious hateful posts, like some the ones you make. Even if the recipient of 'banter' (or whatever you would call it) is in on it, how does it look to outsiders? Not welcoming

 

The content is theme parks and basically devoid of race in any meaningful way; as it's largely anonymous I don't see how we could ever know the demographic that is here and you don't know who you are engaging with. I suspect that might be why @StevenVig hadn't really thought about race in that way in the community as he said? I might not be as alert to it myself, would be interested to know if there has ever been anything here that you have found offensive or discriminatory if you are happy to talk about it? 

 

So if I make a point that there is no diversity in the forum, your first instinct is to attack me directly.

 

Shame to see a platform where you cannot voice your opinion on something as a relevant topic without being targeted directly.

 

[pluk]

6 hours ago, MarkC said:

So if I make a point that there is no diversity in the forum, your first instinct is to attack me directly.

 

Shame to see a platform where you cannot voice your opinion on something as a relevant topic without being targeted directly.
 

 

 

You didn't just make that point though, did you? By the way you worded it and where you posted it you attacked the team of the forum. This is a hugely inflammatory and frankly unfair way to approach the subject. I can't believe you are stupid enough not to know exactly what you were doing. 

 

There are lots of relevant conversations to be had about diversity in this forum, in the wider community, possibly in the industry itself. I have no idea what the demographics of each are. That conversation is absolutely encouraged but barbed comment in a thread called rant is not a sensible way to go about that.

 

As has been mentioned, the team can only be recruited from the user base and the user base is what it is, it is not targeted to anyone in particular with the sex and race of users not known. 

 

Your is likely to be detrimental to the cause you purport to support. If the only way the diversity of the forum, and by extension the team, can widen is by organic member sign up do you think insinuating there is a racism and sexism issue here is going to help that? Would someone coming to the forum and seeing your comments think this would be the place for them? 

[Benin]

Coaster groups are very white male dominated. Especially the forums. Only about 1 or 2 forums actually have a half decent female presence, but that is down to a fair amount of work on the members part to become an established part of the community and then part of the site's team. A lot of the time the females at meets have been dragged into it by boyfriends or family members. Very rare to see girlfriends dragging their other halves along (does happen though).

 

BAME is even lower in numbers. I might not even need additional hands to count how many I've seen or met on meets over the 17 (Jesus I've been in this game a while). 

 

At the end though you cannot flat out force people to join a forum on what is an incredibly niche interest. People like theme parks as a general visit thing but do they LIKE them? 

 

It's an incredibly difficult situation for many industries. Engineering has a very similar issue in terms of a lack of numbers in diversity as it was always seen as a bloke's thing to do (current company has 1 female in the engineering side, the rest are admin or finance). And with a lot of management at the companies being an old boy's club made it hard for any women involved to advance unless you had the right people in charge (this isn't a point at the running of this forum). But you've got to build the interest in it first before demanding that there be diversity, as you are then potentially promoting people to senior roles who aren't always best suited for them as a tick boxing exercise.

 

If there's one thing I have noticed about the coaster community; it's the very prominent number of LGBTQ+ members. Which is a fantastic positive to consider.

[JoshuaA]

I agree with the post above me.

It is interesting to why the community is so white-male oriented, but I wouldn't say our community is unfriendly to anybody who was of a different race or a girl. I think its just the hobby, like we can't hold people at gunpoint to join our community just to tick diversity boxes. 

 

Also when it does come to the LGBT community we are very well represented within the community, so I guess it isn't like minorities are excluded from being enthusiasts. I think its a bit dramatic to say that the forum isn't equal, they don't make people admins just because they are white males lol. There is a lot of inequality in the world, but there is better places to look than on a forum for a pretty niche hobby.. 

[Glitch]

Think I'm going to take some time off this forum. Just seems like a place full of negativity. Trying to keep to a positive mindset currently.

[Mr. Fish]

50 minutes ago, Glitch said:

Think I'm going to take some time off this forum. Just seems like a place full of negativity. Trying to keep to a positive mindset currently.

We can’t all be positive when there is nothing to be positive about.

[Benin]

Imagine leaving a forum because some people are honest and think something looks crap when it does.

[Martin Doyle]

I have said this time and time again. A fan forum will almost certainly reflect the current state of what it is dedicated to which in this case is Thorpe Park.

 

If Thorpe Park was performing and delivering to its potential, this forum would reflect that with members getting real excited about the place.

 

As it is, the park has been a shadow of its old self for a few years now to the point where many who once loved it are now staying away as they are fed up. So ofcourse this forum reflects that.

 

It would be nice to see positivity.....but when the park is leaving little to find positives in, its hardly surprising that you see more constructive criticism on here

[Mattgwise]

 

Just now, Martin Doyle said:

I have said this time and time again. A fan forum will almost certainly reflect the current state of what it is dedicated to which in this case is Thorpe Park.

 

If Thorpe Park was performing and delivering to its potential, this forum would reflect that.

 

As it is, the park has been a shadow of its old self for a few years now to the point where many who once loved it are now staying away as they are fed up. So ofcourse this forum reflects that.

 

It would be nice to see positivity.....but when the park is leaving little to find positives in, its hardly surprising that you see more constructive criticism on here

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. It's exactly why the forum was thriving ten years ago! If Thorpe announced a total multi million pound refurb, major new coaster or even a new buyer then conversations may be different.

[Marc]

14 minutes ago, Martin Doyle said:

I have said this time and time again. A fan forum will almost certainly reflect the current state of what it is dedicated to which in this case is Thorpe Park.

 

If Thorpe Park was performing and delivering to its potential, this forum would reflect that with members getting real excited about the place.

 

As it is, the park has been a shadow of its old self for a few years now to the point where many who once loved it are now staying away as they are fed up. So ofcourse this forum reflects that.

 

It would be nice to see positivity.....but when the park is leaving little to find positives in, its hardly surprising that you see more constructive criticism on here

Whilst I agree to an extent - there’s plenty to be positive about too..

 

The park has had a great rebrand over the winter - tonnes of signage replaced, tonnes of new stuff, it looks good, its much more professional and it needed doing.

 

The dome has been done up more - whilst I get opinions on looks are subjective and personal opinion, it’s had work done and it’s seen improvement, along with Infinity bar which at least from the outside looks really good - it will be a huge improvement for hotel guests when social distancing measures allow some of the new bits in there too.

 

Park audio system has seen the biggest overhaul it literally ever has had, a good 90% of speakers have been replaced, audio has been added to places which have never had it significantly improving coverage, queue lines which haven’t had audio for years have been fixed, there’s some tweaking to do with volumes etc but again it’s a great improvement.

 

Dont get me wrong - I get it’s not perfect, the area around ghost train near the arcade looks pretty dreadful for example - but it won’t stay looking like that, I suspect it was something started either very recently or just before everyone had to go on furlough. I get both sides of it I guess, personally I’m thankful the parks are able to start opening and getting back to some sort of normal!

[Hethetheth]

I'm on here but I generally enjoy the park, or st least enjoy how it was. However, why should I pretend to like or be positive about new things that have been done when, in all honesty, the park was actively better in 2013 than it is now, and that is sad. Other parks grow, Thorpe just stagnated.

[JoshC.]

21 hours ago, Marc said:

Whilst I agree to an extent - there’s plenty to be positive about too..

Totally agree. Thorpe have made a lot of positive changes. Whilst there's stuff I'm not keen on (Infinity for example), there's no denying there's plenty of steps in the righr direction for people/

 

I guess one of the major problems is that for the past few years, Thorpe in particular have been keen to push the "look at what we've done over closed season" type content before the park opens. Be that through their own channels or through fans (here at TPM, Jack Silkstone, etc). So when the park opens, everyone knows about the positive changes. We've seen them and, to a degree, no longer care, because they don't seem like new changes - they've been known about already. So when there's not-good stuff - such as the arcade wall, Stealth's forever-broken green light, etc - people zone in on that more, because that's what the new stuff is. 

 

In a few days/weeks, people won't be as up in arms about the bad stuff, because it'll be the new normal. Just like how they're not as hyped by the new stuff. In any case, all of these changes are pretty superficial - none of them are big changes, making sweeping changes to the park. Ultimately, the park is still the same. And in Thorpe's case, that's a park that hasn't had a 'proper' new ride in 4 years, once again going through a rebrand which U-turns what the park have done 2 years prior, is suffering from an ageing thrill ride selection and is in dire need of a new major attraction to modernise the park.

 

Obviously something like that doesn't happen overnight. But does it feel like it's starting to happen? Arguably not..

 

So yeah, whilst there's lots of positives, it's no surprise there's still a wave of negativity.